Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2023, stage 18: Pola de Allande - La Cruz de Linares, 178.9k

[HelloDolly]

I'm really surprised by how professional Kuss behaves after yesterday and today, or surprised how weak he is mentally to accept all of this

I dont think you understand what real mental strength is ...
Its not posturing or ego related like having to prove how strong you are ...its not grabbing everything for you or winning at all costs...none of that is mental stregth...its ego which is the opposite to stregth
True strength is smiling through adversity without losing integrity

Roglic at this Vuelta looks better than I ever recall. He looks amazing.

JV should mix it up at tdf 24, 2 captains ride it out.

Jonas Vingegaard will lead the Tour in 2024 ...Roglic will be wasting his time at JV if he thinks he will usurp Jonas

If Kuss wins the GC, it's because of his win on stage 6, and the gap created by the breakaway there. His gap has been going down ever since, except for yesterday's stage when Vingegaard created a safety buffer to prevent embarassment.

It's as simple as that, do the math.

Well you must not be a cycling fan for long if you think its simple math
For instance when Vinge went up the road and won the stage neither Kuss nor Roglic were allowed to follow ...so they lost time that was not down to their strength .
Also there is an universal view on here that Kuss is the weakest of the 3 in this Vuelta..but that has not been proved by anyone. He has a 'badish' day on the Angriliu but which one of the riders didn't feel bad one one day . If he was on another team and had a Dom like him (or Landa) riding for him and managed to save his jersey then no one would say he was the weakest or was gifted the race. Yesterday Vinge sat up but no where is it evident that Kuss would have lost time to him yesterday if he raced. Kuss looked pretty good yesterday

In some ways this way of riding undermines Kuss strength in the race overall
While I believe you dont attack the red jersey in your team I dont think by not doing it proves anything about Sepp Kuss strength in this Vuelta

Its simple as that

 

[Escarabajo]

If Kuss wins the GC, it's because of his win on stage 6, and the gap created by the breakaway there. His gap has been going down ever since, except for yesterday's stage when Vingegaard created a safety buffer to prevent embarassment.

It's as simple as that, do the math.

We watched 2 different races. The mechanics of the race changes completely because they are teammates and one of them is working for the other. It is very simple. If they had started t from the beginning in different teams the stories would have been different. But that never happened. When one of them attacks the other ones cannot follow or respond because they are teammates. Did you see Kuss in the Tourmalet.? the power when he accelerated? gosh, I am completely sure that He could have arrived with Jonas if he was riding to defend his time there. Stage 16 they couldn't follow either and the group behind came to a stop. They gifted some time there because Jonas is his teammate. Very simple.

 

[proffate]

While I cheer for Evenepoel I really don't enjoy it when cyclists way too good for it go stage hunting. Reminds me of when Carapaz did it.

Other hopefuls cannot reasonably compete.

Saving grace is that this wasn't the plan from the beginning.

Talking about mountain stages specifically.

I'm a little curious how many stages he could have won if he targeted that metric from the beginning. Could he ride away every other day that isn't totally flat?

You can shed a tear for the lesser stage hunters if you want but this behavior is what made Merckx the Cannibal.

 

[Danskebjerge]

We watched 2 different races. The mechanics of the race changes completely because they are teammates and one of them is working for the other. It is very simple. If they had started t from the beginning in different teams the stories would have been different. But that never happened. When one of them attacks the other ones cannot follow or respond because they are teammates. Did you see Kuss in the Tourmalet.? the power when he accelerated? gosh, I am completely sure that He could have arrived with Jonas if he was riding to defend his time there. Stage 16 they couldn't follow either and the group behind came to a stop. They gifted some time there because Jonas is his teammate. Very simple.

That's guesses. What we KNOW is that Kuss is the weaker TT'er of the three, and when they were sitting together as they did the other day - only those three - Kuss couldn't follow them. The math: Kuss only got his gap because he was in the breakaway on stage 6. Now it's a very little gap, maintained by the tactics of Jumbo-Visma of not letting the two captains attack anymore.

That's the facts. I'm not saying Kuss doesn't deserve his GC win.

 

[Red Lobster]

That's some of the facts. I'm not saying Kuss doesn't deserve his GC win.

Fixed that for you. Some of the facts aren't all of the facts.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Also there is an universal view on here that Kuss is the weakest of the 3 in this Vuelta..but that has not been proved by anyone.

No, and that is what is shameful. No-one will ever know because the thing that should give us the evidence, a race, has been nullified.

If it is not the purpose of a sporting competition to find out who is most capable of winning it, what is its purpose?

 

[GroupDK]

We watched 2 different races. The mechanics of the race changes completely because they are teammates and one of them is working for the other. It is very simple. If they had started t from the beginning in different teams the stories would have been different. But that never happened. When one of them attacks the other ones cannot follow or respond because they are teammates. Did you see Kuss in the Tourmalet.? the power when he accelerated? gosh, I am completely sure that He could have arrived with Jonas if he was riding to defend his time there. Stage 16 they couldn't follow either and the group behind came to a stop. They gifted some time there because Jonas is his teammate. Very simple.

No doubt that it's the +3.02 min group breakaway on stage6 which Vingegaard as captain & the JV-managers gave Sepp Kuss permission to attend' that flipped this Vuelta upside down.
Pulling out a small acceleration from Sepp Kuss on Tourmalets' last few km, which Vingegaard won, doesn't change the overall picture, that Sepp sadly been dropping when things got accelerated, and where he desperately tried to hang on, but couldn't. (kudos for Jumbo Visma that they at least gave us some racing at times,
- as it would have been a bore-fest, if all the big mountain stages, had been like yesterday, with Vingegaard & Roglic neutralizing all stages, with speculative tactics, and Jumbo relying on getting breakaways while undermine & kill all attempts to get some GC action.
Mindbending that some people want's that - and for what, to get some specific rider to win.. It's entertainment, let them entertain us & give us some banging good racing for all the time we invest watching them, otherwise, these secondary Grand tours, would be even more undermined, neutered, and with less interest.

Are Sepp Kuss a worthy winner?.. that aspect is something people have to decide on their own... I like the dude, so I am glad that he gets a Grand Tour.. he has been such a legit domestic helper for both Roglic and Vingegaard, and Sepp does seem like one happy camper who has won the lottery, and that's always great to see.

My biggest grape with the Vuelta2023 - is the lack of battle between Roglic & Vingegaard as that was something I personally really looked forward to.
I reckon there would have been no soft team-momma that would intervene, and they both would have been allowed to clash like bonafide leprechauns.

Do I think Sepp is the strongest rider, of course not, when judging their demeanor on the mountains... Vingegaard stands out, mainly here in the latter half of Vuelta, where Vingegaard been a gear above everybody else, and at times, seems like a dude simply chilling & touring, and it's exactly the same as we have seen in Tour De France 2021, 2022 & 2023 when entering the last week.

When we get to the latter half of the big Tour and mainly the last week, he seems to recover the best and simply better, than even Pogacar which I see as the second-best grand tourer in the world.
Atm I would put Roglic third, seems well prepared - and then there is a bunch of riders that are all in the mix, where I also would put Sepp Kuss, after those 3 above.

 

[dobrien]

If I knew who the hell Bobcat Goldthwait was I could try to answer that for you.

Google is your friend; I and many others will find the comparison spot on. The voice of hysterical obsession.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Google is your friend; I and many others will find the comparison spot on. The voice of hysterical obsession.

I saw that he directed Windy City Heat. I only know Perry from his most recent iteration.

What I'll say regarding hysterical obsession is that while I know I get pretty repetitive and stubborn, there was a commenter underneath one of Benji's recent posts who proudly stated that after the Anglirú stage they hunted down as many social media accounts of people affiliated with Jumbo-Visma as they could, from riders, DSes, soigneurs, press attachés, whoever they could find on any social media they could find them, and sent them all abusive messages demanding that they rethink their strategy and pull for Sepp Kuss.

I post on the CN forum.