Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2023, stage 9: Cartagena - Collado de la Cruz de Caravaca, 184.5k

[Pirazziattacks]

They are completely free to abandon the race if the road is a teeny tiny bit too slippery for them. Nobody holds them at gunpoint

You posted the same thing after a rider died at the Tour de Suisse. What is wrong with you?

 

[tobydawq]

It is annoying to hear complains about the same things over and over. Get over it. Times have changed and there is nothing we can do about it. Things can always be done better, but cancellation or truncations to protect the riders are here to stay. Sure I wanted to watch the whole climb but there was a risk of an accident because of the mud. If we can avoid it then be it. The times of watching riders go down the Gavia at subzero temperatures with snow are over.

Lol. What an apples and oranges argument. I think everyone agrees that the latter should not have happened in 1988. Having a little mud on a road is in no way comparable.

Kämna and Sobrero actually survived that stretch.

 

[tobydawq]

Chapeau Kämna - finally gets the win.

So we've had thunderstorms, darkness, rain, mud, protests, 400 liters of oil and lots of crashes. Not bad for a first week! We just need some 40C heat now and of course, the organizers will some how mess up the ITT on Tuesday. Are you not entertained?!

Not really.

 

[RedheadDane]

Times have changed and there is nothing that needs to be done about it.

FIFY.

Congratulations to Kämna for joining the GT stage win tripple club. In a few years, when people look at the stage winners for the 2023 Vuelta, they'll see the name 'Lennard Kämna" next to stage 9.

 

[Oldermanish]

The pussification of society is general and by that I mean a tendency for displaying care, safety and eliminating risk everywhere and in all activities. That is borderline condescending and patronizing of the best humans can do. I won't brag much, but just look at how kids played outside in the 80s during hours while developing and learning skills and how they have now to be instructed on how to have fun by ****ing professionals or are just glued to the screens.

There ought to be areas of activity where willing members are very well paid and can thus remind us of what humans can endure to achieve greatness. If cycling looses that because of over the top safety concerns, it will just go with the flow of other sports and turn into something else.

Perhaps you enjoyed the thrill of riding a bike without a helmet and staying out after dark. I don't know how kids played in the 80's. Actually, I do because my Son was born then and he treats his sons the same way. His second born just had his wrist pinned together after taking a dive playing football. They play without too much fear but still don't do outwardly stupid stuff.
Watching some of the stupidly dangerous courses created in this Vuelta it's not surprising that the increasing risks were going to get on the nerves of a few pros. Unless you've ridden a "surprise" event like the mud-slicked finale today and risked your entire income stream doing it you and I can't know how "pussified" the response was.
Watch NFL football, Rugby, Pro-rodeo bull riding, or Nascar is you need to see the actual crashes. They all wear body armor and other protection because they die young or later of CTE based health issues in horrible ways.
Cycling is just as challenging as those sports but they're naked, literally.

 

[tobydawq]

Perhaps you enjoyed the thrill of riding a bike without a helmet and staying out after dark. I don't know how kids played in the 80's. Actually, I do because my Son was born then and he treats his sons the same way. His second born just had his wrist pinned together after taking a dive playing football. They play without too much fear but still don't do outwardly stupid stuff.
Watching some of the stupidly dangerous courses created in this Vuelta it's not surprising that the increasing risks were going to get on the nerves of a few pros. Unless you've ridden a "surprise" event like the mud-slicked finale today and risked your entire income stream doing it you and I can't know how "pussified" the response was.
Watch NFL football, Rugby, Pro-rodeo bull riding, or Nascar is you need to see the actual crashes. They all wear body armor and other protection because they die young or later of CTE based health issues in horrible ways.
Cycling is just as challenging as those sports but they're naked, literally.

1) They are actually not literally naked.

2) The courses have not been stupidly dangerous. They made a screw-up with the TTT and are now overcompensating every time they see a raindrop.

 

[Kaptain Kool]

At first I was thinking that this Vuelta has been slightly disappointing. Now I'm hoping for more neutralizations and GC times taken at random spots well before the finish just so that all the whiners can continue being as miserable as they always are each and every time.

 

[tobydawq]

At first I was thinking that this Vuelta has been slightly disappointing. Now I'm hoping for more neutralizations and GC times taken at random spots well before the finish just so that all the whiners can continue being as miserable as they always are each and every time.

So you only watch cycling in the hope that others will be disappointed?

 

[iBanesto]

There was no one standing at the new finish line?

Pretty sure Escartin was standing there with the yellow flag.

 

[Elos Anjos]

Perhaps you enjoyed the thrill of riding a bike without a helmet and staying out after dark. I don't know how kids played in the 80's. Actually, I do because my Son was born then and he treats his sons the same way. His second born just had his wrist pinned together after taking a dive playing football. They play without too much fear but still don't do outwardly stupid stuff.
Watching some of the stupidly dangerous courses created in this Vuelta it's not surprising that the increasing risks were going to get on the nerves of a few pros. Unless you've ridden a "surprise" event like the mud-slicked finale today and risked your entire income stream doing it you and I can't know how "pussified" the response was.
Watch NFL football, Rugby, Pro-rodeo bull riding, or Nascar is you need to see the actual crashes. They all wear body armor and other protection because they die young or later of CTE based health issues in horrible ways.
Cycling is just as challenging as those sports but they're naked, literally.

Your answer is a let down. You built a strawman and proceeded to beat him.

For the record, I'm pro helmets and for downplaying unnecessary risks, but if you want to critically address the issue at stake, you can sensibly see that there will always be more, there will always be more things to be nudged, vilified and erased and allways in the name of safety. Organizers are favouring a development trend that favours predictability, but cycling is loved also because of its unpredictability and for some riders thriving on them (cf. Pantani on Tour 1998 going downhill during a storm).

 

[Rob5091]

https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...-loses-a-couple-more-seconds-to-primoz-roglic
In the video at 52 seconds, the new finish line with all the guys with notepads etc.

Pretty sure Escartin was standing there with the yellow flag.

edit add photo -

 

[Oldermanish]

1) They are actually not literally naked.

2) The courses have not been stupidly dangerous. They made a screw-up with the TTT and are now overcompensating every time they see a raindrop.

1)Look at Kamna's kit and how it would fare in a crash on the slimey run in.
2)The conditions are part of the course. Equivocating the bad timing for the TTT as a cause for shortening yesterday's stage doesn't even make a point.

 

[search]

It was from PCS. Please trust that, while there are limitations to my computing abilities, I have mastered copy and paste.

having another look at the times, Vervaeke's must be incorrect indeed, by the way. It's highly unlikely at least that he made up almost 10 minutes to those guys around him over the final 2k.

 

[Oldermanish]

Your answer is a let down. You built a strawman and proceeded to beat him.

For the record, I'm pro helmets and for downplaying unnecessary risks, but if you want to critically address the issue at stake, you can sensibly see that there will always be more, there will always be more things to be nudged, vilified and erased and allways in the name of safety. Organizers are favouring a development trend that favours predictability, but cycling is loved also because of its unpredictability and for some riders thriving on them (cf. Pantani on Tour 1998 going downhill during a storm).

The "pussification" of all things in society represents what, exactly?
Racing should proceed in the challenges of nature; to a point. Toby pointed out that Kamna and Sobrero survived that stretch of road. They were riding solo and knew it wasn't part of the timing. Everyone else survived as well because they weren't going at finish speed. Ask WvA or Valverde about crashing solo in TTs....They would no doubt say that the race had to be run and they misjudged a corner. IMO they'd be right. If that race had been run in the dark they might feel different.

The Tour that Bernal won had a shortened stage for much of the same thing. Yates would have like to finish it but few argued that point when seeing rivers of slush streaming across the road.

I don't know who you think is the great Nanny pushing all things into conformance. A straw-Nanny?

 

[Escarabajo]

This is the kind of argument that gets used a lot of times in a lot of different contexts. It is never a good argument in any of those contexts.

I think is plenty clear. Time changes, people evolve, sports evolve. What is complicated about it? I wish they could organize it better, yes. But first the safety.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Congratulations to Lennard Kämna for winning the stage.

Intensely raced stage, due to the crosswinds. Some seconds shifting in between GC favourites on the penultimate climb. Although Roglič officially not gaining any seconds, due to i guess stopwatch being broken, he was really strong at the finale.

Organisers made the right call and so did the riders. Acknowledging that. That is you plan a stage months in advance and riders will then ride over it eventually. If there are new circumstances on the race day, like intense flooding and mud on the road. Then you, as organiser, do need to respond to this new circumstances and put riders safety first.

Fans complaining about that? Good.

 

[iBanesto]

https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...-loses-a-couple-more-seconds-to-primoz-roglic
In the video at 52 seconds, the new finish line with all the guys with notepads etc.

edit add photo -

Gracias.