Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2024, stage 15: Infiesto - Cuitu Negru, 142.9k

[Rob5091]

Why was vlasov up the road going eyeballs out?

Showing how to lose to a pro team rider?

Roglic getting a 20 second penalty and still not stomping after the bike change, makes me wonder if Red Bull/Bora will try this tactic again.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I just rewatched the footage and Roglic spends a full minute(!) on camera(!!) drafting behind the team car. One can only guess for how long he was doing it off camera.

In that light, he was really lucky to only get a 20 second penalty.

Roglic, Martinez and Adria each got 20 seconds penalty, 4 points off both their green and polka dot tallies, 15 points from the UCI classification, as well as a 200CHF fine: Archbold as DS got a 500CHF fine.

Allowable penalties would have been up to 5 minutes time penalty (20 seconds is the minimum), and a yellow card could also have been given. So there could be a case made that 20 seconds was lenient.

In extremis:

In addition to the above provisions, in serious cases, in cases of repeated infringement or aggravating
circumstances or if an infringement offers an advantage, the Commissaires’ Panel may eliminate or
disqualify a rider and/or exclude a licence holder.
The commissaires' panel also reserves the right to downgrade the position of the team vehicle in the line-up
of team vehicles.

but I don't think anyone would have been calling for that yesterday. Although that clause "or if an infringement offers an advantage" would seem to suggest that it should e disqualification every time: of course there is an advantage.

If the only point of yellow cards at the moment is to get riders and teams (and fans) used to the concept (they are not being counted towards suspensions until next season), then the inconsistency of their application in this race is not helpful.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Was there any action taken against the UAE car for that manoeuvre at the intermediate sprint?

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

It’s become a critical team sport where they count watts in service of a leader, and efforts like his to take the stage win standout apart from the goals of the team.

Available if Roglic needed him to drop back, casting a constant uncertainty over the other GC contenders that Roglic might attack early given that he had help available,

apart from the goals of the team?

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

"He was lucky he did not get more than the stilulated punishment according to the rulebook"

Some bigly emotional response there

Except that that response seems entirely absent from comments here.

 

[Lui98]

Was there any action taken against the UAE car for that manoeuvre at the intermediate sprint?

Yes, Marcato was fined 1000 CHF for: "breach of regulations concerning vehicle movement during race".

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Why was vlasov up the road going eyeballs out?

Not sure why I'm supposed to know Is it because "up the road" is where the finish was?

 

[Rob5091]

Expensive day for Red Bull/Bora on stage 15 -
Primox Roglic (Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe): Sheltering behind team car (for extensive period of time). 200CHF fine; 15 UCI points fine; 4KOM points penalization; 4 Points Classification penalization; 20 seconds overall classification penalization.

Daniel Martínez (Red Bull - BORA- hansgrohe): Sheltering behind team car (for extensive period of time). 200CHF fine; 15 UCI points fine; 4KOM points penalization; 4 Points Classification penalization; 20 seconds overall classification penalization.

Roger Adrià (Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe): Sheltering behind team car (for extensive period of time). 200CHF fine; 15 UCI points fine; 4KOM points penalization; 4 Points Classification penalization; 20 seconds overall classification penalization.

DS Shane Archbold (Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe): Sheltering behind team car (for extensive period of time). 500CHF fine & Breach of regulations concerning vehicle movement during race: 1000 CHF fine.

DS Patxi Villa (Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe): Sticky Bottle. 500CHF fine.

2 600 CHF all together by my reckoning.

 

[tobydawq]

Expensive day for Red Bull/Bora on stage 15 -
Primox Roglic (Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe): Sheltering behind team car (for extensive period of time). 200CHF fine; 15 UCI points fine; 4KOM points penalization; 4 Points Classification penalization; 20 seconds overall classification penalization.

Daniel Martínez (Red Bull - BORA- hansgrohe): Sheltering behind team car (for extensive period of time). 200CHF fine; 15 UCI points fine; 4KOM points penalization; 4 Points Classification penalization; 20 seconds overall classification penalization.

Roger Adrià (Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe): Sheltering behind team car (for extensive period of time). 200CHF fine; 15 UCI points fine; 4KOM points penalization; 4 Points Classification penalization; 20 seconds overall classification penalization.

DS Shane Archbold (Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe): Sheltering behind team car (for extensive period of time). 500CHF fine & Breach of regulations concerning vehicle movement during race: 1000 CHF fine.

DS Patxi Villa (Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe): Sticky Bottle. 500CHF fine.

2 600 CHF all together by my reckoning.

Can the two team vehicles not ride in convoy now or how was Archbold sheltering behind a team car?

 

[Unchained]

This is a fan forum, not the UN. I don't have to answer such questions regarding bias versus non bias. Of course I'm a Rog fan. I mean hello? Meanwhile can you guarentee everyone happy right now with the commissaire decision is an impartial bystander who only cares about "ze rules"? I don't think so.

Bias cuts both way.



They were coming back into the peloton with or without the car draft. That's the context. He swapped bikes immediately after a nature break.

At most they made a mistake using the car to help him back in, especially considering the punishment for their 'crime'.

But let's not pretend the car draft was decisive. It wasn't. Without the car he was still getting right back into his spot in the bunch without sticking his nose in the wind on the wheels of his teammates (aka teammates who dropped as soon as the climb got serious anyway so they were of no further use in the stage & did not influence anything).

The context is professional riders, spirit of the rule, not it's actual observance, as you correctly point out Roglic would have chased and caught under similar circumstances, if he were pulling the team car w a rope wrapped around his waist. He would have bridged, contested the stage just as he did, Grand Tour, putting time leaders jersey. The only mistake made was by the officials for enforcing a petty provision against a high visibility offender and letting all the other motorcycle, car grabbing cheats go unrecognized because at @2,3 hours off the back ,
that looks like kicking while they are down.
This happens in many professional sports were the officiating crew become part of the competition, instead of background were they belong.
Big picture rolling Roglic, doesn't think even an extra 20 seconds is a big deal.. He has that Arnold Schwarzenegger cool confidence that draws people to him..gave out Enric Mas compliment because he can..

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VifTuTn1Mm8&pp=ygUOQ3ljbGlzbUFjdHUgVFY%3D


He says w the time penalty bike swap was a wash
Was the time penalty part of that plan?

 

[memyselfandI]

I'm probably way out with this, but leaning to a thought that he and team are not that worried about the gap to O'Connor and to Mas as thing are evolving to right direction or stay where they are atm. Maybe not even planning to grab red jersey at all before the tt.

Wouldn't it be the optimal case to arrive to the final tt like half a minute or handful of seconds back, slowly eating that gap away these last days? No need to defend the attacks, no need to sit and stand in interviews and dopingtests too long and all that gc leader jazz.

When you know how you typically handle tt's against this top5.

 

[cen]

I'm probably way out with this, but leaning to a thought that he and team are not that worried about the gap to O'Connor and to Mas as thing are evolving to right direction or stay where they are atm. Maybe not even planning to grab red jersey at all before the tt.

Wouldn't it be the optimal case to arrive to the final tt like half a minute or handful of seconds back, slowly eating that gap away these last days? No need to defend the attacks, no need to sit and stand in interviews and dopingtests too long and all that gc leader jazz.

When you know how you typically handle tt's against this top5.

No, betting it all on TT would be idiotic. One mechanical and adios.

 

[Escarabajo]

This is a fan forum, not the UN. I don't have to answer such questions regarding bias versus non bias. Of course I'm a Rog fan. I mean hello? Meanwhile can you guarentee everyone happy right now with the commissaire decision is an impartial bystander who only cares about "ze rules"? I don't think so.

Bias cuts both way.



They were coming back into the peloton with or without the car draft. That's the context. He swapped bikes immediately after a nature break.

At most they made a mistake using the car to help him back in, especially considering the punishment for their 'crime'.

But let's not pretend the car draft was decisive. It wasn't. Without the car he was still getting right back into his spot in the bunch without sticking his nose in the wind on the wheels of his teammates (aka teammates who dropped as soon as the climb got serious anyway so they were of no further use in the stage & did not influence anything).

If it was not important then do not to change bikes. Problem fixed. I could care less if it was decisive or not, the fine was OK and well deserved.

 

[RJH]

I'm probably way out with this, but leaning to a thought that he and team are not that worried about the gap to O'Connor and to Mas as thing are evolving to right direction or stay where they are atm. Maybe not even planning to grab red jersey at all before the tt.

Wouldn't it be the optimal case to arrive to the final tt like half a minute or handful of seconds back, slowly eating that gap away these last days? No need to defend the attacks, no need to sit and stand in interviews and dopingtests too long and all that gc leader jazz.

When you know how you typically handle tt's against this top5.

Roglic better gains every sec asap. With his limited prep it‘s not clear how he‘ll manage week three anyways, so waiting could be dangerous.

 

[Rackham]

What has Bora got to do with the situation? I call it as I see it. It would be better if you showed more balance in your posts, instead of your blindless devotion to Roglic

Why? You'd rather everyone was on the same page and repeated the same conclusion over & over, where's the fun in that?

I said it as I saw it. No need to overthink anything. Besides as I said I know exactly how this story ends, i.e. everyone goes back to bending the rules like business a usual tomorrow to various extents and no one gives a damn. Rinse & repeat. Without the commissaires punishing half of what happens.

The context is professional riders, spirit of the rule, not it's actual observance, as you correctly point out Roglic would have chased and caught under similar circumstances, if he were pulling the team car w a rope wrapped around his waist. He would have bridged, contested the stage just as he did, Grand Tour, putting time leaders jersey. The only mistake made was by the officials for enforcing a petty provision against a high visibility offender and letting all the other motorcycle, car grabbing cheats go unrecognized because at @2,3 hours off the back ,
that looks like kicking while they are down.
This happens in many professional sports were the officiating crew become part of the competition, instead of background were they belong.
Big picture rolling Roglic, doesn't think even an extra 20 seconds is a big deal.. He has that Arnold Schwarzenegger cool confidence that draws people to him..gave out Enric Mas compliment because he can..

Rog's penalty is like that jaywalking scene in Lethal Weapon 3:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UktdDBp5lz8

 

[11-34]

Why was vlasov up the road going eyeballs out?

1. Vlasov does a leadout for WVA so that Sivakov doesn't win the stage 7.
2. Sivakov complains about being stalked by Vlasov.
3. At 18.5 KM to go on this stage 15 the Bora car drives up to Vlasov. Vlasov is apparently surprised by the appearance. Only words are exchanged. Vlasov violently shakes head.
4. Vlasov continues to follow Sivakov up the climb.

Something is funny with Vlasov.

 

[Sciatic]

1. Vlasov does a leadout for WVA so that Sivakov doesn't win the stage 7.
2. Sivakov complains about being stalked by Vlasov.
3. At 18.5 KM to go on this stage 15 the Bora car drives up to Vlasov. Vlasov is apparently surprised by the appearance. Only words are exchanged. Vlasov violently shakes head.
4. Vlasov continues to follow Sivakov up the climb.

Something is funny with Vlasov.

About #3, it’s even funnier because at that point you can see his radio earpiece dangling from the wire and not in his his ear. Shortly after the tet a’ tet with the team car he puts it back in his ear 😄 s
Shades of Thomas Voelkler spiking his earpiece into the pavement while trying to hang onto yellow.

 

[elguapo]

fakest COVID since remco got it

I noticed that on the homestretch, CRod see-sawed negotiating the climb while at the same time blowing his nose. It looked like colds or something was affecting the rider. Unreported COVID?

 

[memyselfandI]

No, betting it all on TT would be idiotic. One mechanical and adios.

Naah, playing possum 'me back hurts' and then somehow dropping world top athletes in climbs, or clawing back people who momentarily drop him..

Different approaches for a different athletes careers. Roglic has three (3) Vuelta overalls in the pocket. BOC none, Mas none, Landa none. Who is busy and who is cool?

 

[11-34]

About #3, it’s even funnier because at that point you can see his radio earpiece dangling from the wire and not in his his ear. Shortly after the tet a’ tet with the team car he puts it back in his ear 😄 s
Shades of Thomas Voelkler spiking his earpiece into the pavement while trying to hang onto yellow.

Actually you can see though, that he pulls it out to listen to the DS. So the earplug was in before and presumably working (because he puts it back in). The scene is just very curious.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

How are you comparing this with Sticky Bottles??????

This is more like a Vincenzo Nibali 2015 Vuelta sticky bottle.

I actually really like Rogla, but please don't do the Nibali. Cause once the cameras are on you take special care not to do the Nibali.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi24TVdZFyc

 

[Sciatic]

Actually you can see though, that he pulls it out to listen to the DS. So the earplug was in before and presumably working (because he puts it back in). The scene is just very curious.

Ah, I missed that. Thanks.

 

[saunaking]

I noticed that on the homestretch, CRod see-sawed negotiating the climb while at the same time blowing his nose. It looked like colds or something was affecting the rider. Unreported COVID?

haha. Snot rocket = COVID now????

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I actually really like Rogla, but please don't do the Nibali. Cause once the cameras are on you take special care not to do the Nibali.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi24TVdZFyc

Lol that was insane. I’d forgotten how bad that was. At least do it when you’re by yourself or just with teammates, don’t get whisked away from the front of a competitive pace line while
on TV. That was like seeing Cancellara accelerate away. Wow.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Besides as I said I know exactly how this story ends, i.e. everyone goes back to bending the rules like business a usual tomorrow to various extents and no one gives a damn. Rinse & repeat. Without the commissaires punishing half of what happens.

I'm sure that well over half of it is never seen by cameras, and nearly as much never seen by commissaires.

But so long as the half (probably less) that is picked up on contains the most egregious, public, and race-relevant cases, then it contributes to race integrity and continuing disincentive to others to cheat. Is that not what is good for the sport?