Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2024, stage 15: Infiesto - Cuitu Negru, 142.9k

[Samamba]

I'll play ball for a second but tact refers to context. If Rog had been caught in a split & drafted to get back on, then fine, yes. But that's not what happened. It's not the first time this season there's been an overly zealous decision by the commissaires either. Josh Tarling's own misadventure in Paris-Roubaix springs to mind.

I mean look, everyone can hide behind the almighty 'rule book' as much as they want but we all know it's enforced (at best) inconsistently & mostly not at all.

So yeah, great job 'commissaires' *clap clap here's your applause*... although I'd hazard a guess on Tuesday everything will be back to business as usual & no one will get punished for the usual 'transgressions' which occur at every point of a normal road race stage in cycling.

The context is that Roglic made a strategic CHOICE to switch bikes so he could have an advantage later on. The downside of a bikechange is that you need to get back to the peloton, he drafted back behind his own team car, negating that downside. So that's the context. What's next? A TT where some riders change bikes on purpose and they just take the lost time back while drafting?

Also the UCI has been giving out 20s penalty's for drafting pretty often this year, this was so blatant that you just knew he was gonna gat one.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Especially for something so trivial which didn't violate the fairness of proceedings.

So it is fair to travel in the shelter of a car? Will you be asking the UCI to re-instate Eekhoff's 2019 U23 World title?

You still haven't addressed the question of why he would take a draft from the car if he didn't think it would give him any advantage...

Absolutely no one applauding this decision this evening can say with a straight face the rules are enforced equally every day in this Grand Tour no matter the rider or the infringement. It just doesn't happen.

Indeed, inconsistency is a problem. But when rule breaking is clearly happening, and no mitigating circumstances are present, there is more onus on officials to explain why they did not apply the rules than on why they did.

Can you cite any occasions when you have been similarly incensed about rules being applied to other riders, or this about being offended on behalf of a preferred rider?

 

[jmdirt]

Always blows my mind how somebody who has been at the top of professional cycling for 9 years, and who was the world number one cyclist at his peak, can be so completely clueless about cycling

It always blows my mind that people don't realize what happens to your mind when you go that deep.

 

[jmdirt]

The context is that Roglic made a strategic CHOICE to switch bikes so he could have an advantage later on. The downside of a bikechange is that you need to get back to the peloton, he drafted back behind his own team car, negating that downside. So that's the context. What's next? A TT where some riders change bikes on purpose and they just take the lost time back while drafting?

Also the UCI has been giving out 20s penalty's for drafting pretty often this year, this was so blatant that you just knew he was gonna gat one.

He deserved the penalty, but I wish that the race judges were more consistent with drafting penalties.

 

[Rackham]

So it is fair to travel in the shelter of a car? Will you be asking the UCI to re-instate Eekhoff's 2019 U23 World title?

You still haven't addressed the question of why he would take a draft from the car if he didn't think it would give him any advantage...



Indeed, inconsistency is a problem. But when rule breaking is clearly happening, and no mitigating circumstances are present, there is more onus on officials to explain why they did not apply the rules than on why they did.

Can you cite any occasions when you have been similarly incensed about rules being applied to other riders, or this about being offended on behalf of a preferred rider?

This is a fan forum, not the UN. I don't have to answer such questions regarding bias versus non bias. Of course I'm a Rog fan. I mean hello? Meanwhile can you guarentee everyone happy right now with the commissaire decision is an impartial bystander who only cares about "ze rules"? I don't think so.

Bias cuts both way.

The context is that Roglic made a strategic CHOICE to switch bikes so he could have an advantage later on. The downside of a bikechange is that you need to get back to the peloton, he drafted back behind his own team car, negating that downside. So that's the context. What's next? A TT where some riders change bikes on purpose and they just take the lost time back while drafting?

They were coming back into the peloton with or without the car draft. That's the context. He swapped bikes immediately after a nature break.

At most they made a mistake using the car to help him back in, especially considering the punishment for their 'crime'.

But let's not pretend the car draft was decisive. It wasn't. Without the car he was still getting right back into his spot in the bunch without sticking his nose in the wind on the wheels of his teammates (aka teammates who dropped as soon as the climb got serious anyway so they were of no further use in the stage & did not influence anything).

 

[ice&fire]

It always blows my mind that people don't realize what happens to your mind when you go that deep.

That's what the team staff at the car is for

 

[Tim Cahill]

 

[Samamba]

He deserved the penalty, but I wish that the race judges were more consistent with drafting penalties.

But how often do you see changing bikes to gain an advantage and then draft back? The rule doesn't say it but basically everyone drafts when they had bad luck, the commissaires often even give the green light to do it. This is different.

 

[Unchained]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yIR3NU3P_bU

Also illegal use of team car

 

[jmdirt]

Because he gained no advantage? I mean WTF. He was in the peloton safely, swapped safely and then returned safely.

If GC is decided by this penalty (which I don't think it will be) then sh*t.

He absolutely gained an advantage. Why else would he do it?

 

[AmRacer]

This is a fan forum, not the UN. I don't have to answer such questions regarding bias versus non bias. Of course I'm a Rog fan. I mean hello? Meanwhile can you guarentee everyone happy right now with the commissaire decision is an impartial bystander who only cares about "ze rules"? I don't think so.

Bias cuts both way.



They were coming back into the peloton with or without the car draft. That's the context. He swapped bikes immediately after a nature break.

At most they made a mistake using the car to help him back in, especially considering the punishment for their 'crime'.

But let's not pretend the car draft was decisive. It wasn't. Without the car he was still getting right back into his spot in the bunch without sticking his nose in the wind on the wheels of his teammates (aka teammates who dropped as soon as the climb got serious anyway so they were of no further use in the stage & did not influence anything).

Rogla knew he would be penalised, the bike change was a calculated risk.

 

[jmdirt]

I get it. Car drafting = worse thing ever someone please call the UN right here right now, whilst sticky bottles = je ne sais quoi shrugs.

I mean... this conversation is going round in circles here. I'm saying penalizing the rider like that at a critical moment in the race absolutely shows a lack of tact of the commissaires. I mean this sort of sh*t could decide the Vuelta winner. It's not a joke.

So you are saying 'don't apply the rules to riders close to the top in GC'?

They will use the video from today to show officials in training the most blatant abuse of drafting.
-no mechanical, motor pacing back to the group.

 

[Oldermanish]

The fog of war..........

He may have meant in the front of big gaps or something...a little can be lost in his translations right after a race.

 

[scribers]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yIR3NU3P_bU

Also illegal use of team car

lol. *** all over the back fender

 

[jmdirt]

They should be applied consistently across the board or not at all. Especially for something so trivial which didn't violate the fairness of proceedings.

But don't mess with GC one week from Madrid on a technicality. Not when (as I've said a billion times already) sticky bottles, irregular behavior in the bunch and all that cr*p goes completely unpunished everywhere.

Absolutely no one applauding this decision this evening can say with a straight face the rules are enforced equally every day in this Grand Tour no matter the rider or the infringement. It just doesn't happen.

The rules are not applied consistently, and I'd be shocked if anyone would say otherwise. That being said, this was such a blatant case that it had to be called.
motor pacing>sticky bottle.

EDIT: because many want to make it about 'the rider we like', I like PR! I just don't think that what he did today should be part of cycling. That doesn't change the fact that I want him to challenge for the win.

 

[Oldermanish]

So it is fair to travel in the shelter of a car? Will you be asking the UCI to re-instate Eekhoff's 2019 U23 World title?

You still haven't addressed the question of why he would take a draft from the car if he didn't think it would give him any advantage...



Indeed, inconsistency is a problem. But when rule breaking is clearly happening, and no mitigating circumstances are present, there is more onus on officials to explain why they did not apply the rules than on why they did.

Can you cite any occasions when you have been similarly incensed about rules being applied to other riders, or this about being offended on behalf of a preferred rider?

Roglic chose the option of taking a bike and drafting a car. That's pretty much seizing an advantage not allowed so he should get the penalty. Much different than the allowance given to riders that are crashed through no fault of their riding...to a point. I've never liked guys pacing after mechanicals and this is more blatant. Using the caravan? Yes, of course. 99% of the time they are in the way and there is no choice.
Hopefully he'll channel his tension towards the major beneficiaries of the 20 second bonus and I doubt he'll complain about the penalty. Hopefully.

 

[topcat]

Roglic +20s for drafting.

Why only 20s?

 

[Netserk]

Why only 20s?

Standard penalty.

 

[meat puppet]

Don't get the fuss here.

The drafting was very deliberate, they were clearly searching for gains via a) what was perceived as a bike with better gearing and b) spending less energy and time getting back after changing in comparison to doing it without the pace car (and IMHO got both), so to me the penalty was justifiable.

One can argue consistency, yeah, but even so I think the call was correct. Do we want these asinine gearing motivated changes and pace car get-backs proliferate before climbs? I don't.

Also GC wise most likely nothing will be won or lost on that decision unless Rogla either cannot take 45sec from BOC (Blue Öyster Cult) in the TT and the remaining mountain stages and/or is dropped big time by Mas.

I think rogla will win the required seconds fairly easily and that's the end of this. If he somehow doesn't, too bad, maybe pedal a bit harder next time.

 

[Cookster15]

Watched the stage highlights. Wow, what a stage, congrats all round, the drama continuing until after the finish!

1. Congrats to Castillo - such a gusty win to hold off Vlasov after he looked gone for all money.
2. Congrats to Roglic for a similarly gutsy ride to recover and claw his way back to Mas despite obviously not having his best day.
3. Congrats to O"Conner for suffering big time to hold red against my expectations and then get the bonus of Roglic's time penalty. It is still highly unlikely but he isn't out of it yet. Felix Gall cracked and dropped out of contention so now O'Conner is indisputably the team leader at Decathlon.
4. And congrats to the Vuelta organizers for putting the rampas inhumanas on the menu. 24% sections amazing to see the riders almost at a standstill. How did the sprinters get up that? There wasn't a normal grupetto, Groves finished inside the limit at +26mins.

 

[will-10]

There are guys on here who will be arguing about the penalty a lot harder than the Red Bull guys themselves, which says it all. Standard penalty

 

[Samu Cuenca]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yIR3NU3P_bU

Also illegal use of team car

Why didn't they give him the standard 20 second penalty for that? Imagine if they had forced Roglič to ride back to where he changed his bike, before he was allowed to continue. Pure bull.

 

[tobydawq]

Did Gall walk up the climb?

 

[hayneplane]

Correct decision to give Roglic a time penalty. I don’t mind them turning a blind eye to most drafting when a rider suffers a mechanical or a crash caused by another rider but to try and draft inches from the rear bumper of his own car for so long after a bike change done by choice not necessity is fully meriting of punishment.

 

[Taxus4a]

Quite stupid tactic for T REX, It is Roglic team who has to do the work, and just people to put Landa ok at the begining of the climb and to help him at the first attack, the moment he more suffer.

Just attack or use the team like this if he fell very welll. But today stage was short , quite explosive, no good for him. Try to put people on the break, and other way dont pull, or just help other teams to pull. Landa has bever be good when the team has worked this way for him. Ir would be good if he put people at Los Lagos stage and he attack at the penultimate climb and make something similar to Carapaz at Granada.