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Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2024, stage 19: Logroño - Alto de Moncalvillo, 173.2k

Page 10 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
FWIW, your favorite number cruncher has Roglic today on about the same trend line as Pogacar on Plat d’Adet and as Contador on Verbier. Though of course he then goes on to say he wouldn’t be able to beat Remco because he’s biased that way.

Robo Basso doing Pogi numbers on a 50 minute climb before it was cool, what a monster.
Coming back to this Vuelta, amazing effort by Rogla, he may not have the legs of 3 years back, but it still has the head of a champion, knowing when to defend and when to attack. Now he just need to keep it straight for 2 days, no fancy stuff
 
In that case, there’s only one rider they can hire. And it’s not Evenepoel…
Matteo Jorgenson. He'll be the new Wout van Aert. Can't see him satisfied waiting for WvA's recovery knowing he was down the list from Sepp Kuss and getting little love after towing the Dane around France. His Olympic effort was pretty much solo; see how he does in the WC. If he wins that his stock would be up. Roglic would love working with the guy and helping his GC potential.
 
That being said, its scary thinking how much Pogacar could have nuked the entire peloton with in peak shape with such a leadout. What Bora did today was Visma on Plateau de Beille on steroids, negative splitting the field on the lower slopes for fun and even more up Pog's pallpark than a long hard effort after a long and hard day. He could prolly put +1 minute into Roglic even though Roglic was amazing today.
Yeah....another irrelevant fantasy comparison. Pogacar's success this year in GTs owes hugely to his talent. Roglic was out of the Tour, Remco was about right for the effort he could deliver and Vindegaard was a shadow of himself; maybe to not return to full form. Don't even get started on the non-reaction to Tadej during the Giro. That field conceded early and often. This Vuelta has multiple teams willing to fight, save for UAE...
After winning 2 GTs there is less likelihood Tadej would have the appetite and legs for this one. There's still 2 days to go for comparisons to other great performances. Some here would be very happy if Roglic folded and their pessimism validated. Still more would like to see wall to wall mayhem tomorrow with Primoz on top.
 
For certain Kuss benefitted from his teammates last year (once they stopped dropping him), but beyond that I just don't think he's got the same form he had last year. Whatever the reasons, sickness, increased expectation, maybe he just needs 3 grand tours in a row to reach his top level? Or maybe that's what did him in.
He does not seem to have the same form, he's been consistently about the 10th best climber in the race, even as a superdom he's been better than that. I thought he'd at least be in the mix for a stage win.

I still think Visma did the right thing in making him a leader, but they have been decimated by injuries, so he hasn't had any real support, either. I wouldn't totally give up on GC Kuss but this Vuelta has raised as many questions as answers.
 
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Just too much to be impressed with.. Including the 2 Bora riders settling down, getting enough to finish in great position despite absolutely burying themselves for Roglic lead out!! Impressed with Kuss who appeared completely cooked by salvaged something. For me having Del Toro riding in 3 decent breaks in his first GT has been enjoyable despite his wheels falling off for 2 days.
Overall I think that Roglic is poetry on a bike!! Guy just looks absolutely smooth, controlled, measured in every way!! Coming up the grade he looked like he was going for a coffee, or get some milk at the corner market.. Relaxed.
Gotta give Bora overall cred for tactics this last week (not over yet..). They came into this stage fresh and frisky; delivering late when it counted. They all looked good at the end, too.
 
Red Bull stepping up big time today, Martinez has been underwhelming this Vuelta but today showed up his best self and Vlasov also did a great job for a Roglic that was just super strong today.

O'Connor's time on the red jersey has come to an end but even if he finishes out of the podium he is one of the figures of this Vuelta and gave it a great fight.

Gaudu keeps performing at a very high level just like Skjelmose, hoped a bit more from Carapaz.
 
I think, trying to be objective here (and I know, people are not going to trust be to be remotely objective given the subject matter), but I think there is an element of nobody being willing to go after Kuss' advantage because they'd have to answer to both Vingo and Roglič who would be able to follow and stay fresh anyway, so it was a hiding to nothing (plus the - at least initially, but as the race wore on, increasingly forlorn to the point of being totally worthless - hope that Kuss being in red could foment a bit of internal rivalry in the team that somebody else could profit from), but the whole "GC Kuss" thing was lightning in a bottle with the race win thanks to the other two being told to knock it off and play nice for PR reasons, and ended up being a poisoned chalice.

In some respects you could say that Sepp Kuss the GT contender has been rather more like a better version of Óscar Pereiro or David Arroyo when they got their time gift-adjusted successes. Pereiro was a class rider who had been 10th in the Tour in both 2004 and 2005, on the podium of the Tour de Suisse in 2003, and was only half an hour down because he'd dropped time to stagehunt. He only had a minute and a half from Landis, and held on to the final TT, but he didn't have anything like the support team Kuss had, with Valverde crashing out early, and Karpets and Arroyo his top helpers. The following year, operating as a GT leader with the #1 on his back, he finished... 10th (after the DQs). Right back where he left off. Likewise David Arroyo had been 10th in the Giro twice (2009's later upgraded to 8th) before his 2010 odyssey thanks to the time gift - and then when he went into the race as leader the following year he finished... 13th.

Kuss has managed GT top 10s and multiple top 20s before his surprise run to red last year, but they had largely been as a second- or third-in-command, and part of the current trend towards super teams where if you want to do a good GC but aren't a genuine victory threat, it is better for you to be a superdomestique in a superteam than a leader of a weaker team, as seen most obviously in this year's Tour de France where UAE put domestiques in 4th and 6th, and Soudal and Visma put domestiques in 5th and 8th respectively. That's how Sepp's only other GT top 10 - the 2021 Vuelta - had come about, elsewhere his best successes had come when he was relied on to stagehunt to salvage a race when the leader crashed out, like his stage win in Andorra in the 2021 Tour. Asking him to act as a sole leader aiming at the GC was always going to be a tough ask. Maybe if Pogačar hadn't gone for a Giro-Tour double and Roglič hadn't had to pull out of the Tour, it might have been a different story. Maybe if he'd stayed healthy early season and got some confidence-boosting strong results prior to Burgos to give both the team and himself some faith in his ability to perform as a leader, it might have been a different story. But instead, it looks very much like a tale we've seen many a time, of a strong rider finding themselves in an unexpected advantageous position and performing up to the level of the position, but then not being able to replicate it when their card is marked, whether it be audience expectations, whether it be being taken more seriously by the opposition, whether it be a change to internal team dynamics or a collection of all of them.

The question will be, whether this was a learning experience and he can then establish himself as a credible threat as more than a fringe GC rider and mountain stagehunter (think something like Rafał Majka in the mid-2010s perhaps?) and become more than a one-hit-wonder to become a legit GC threat, or whether he goes back to his superdomestique job, maybe Visma bring in another leader or jump Jorgenson or Uijtdebroecks above him in the pecking order and it's "GC KUSS: The SQUIB is DAMP" forevermore.

Kuss isn't likely going to win another GT but it's also worth noting that he had COVID in June and isn't probably 100% prepared for this Vuelta. He's probably a regular top 10 guy on his own and maybe top five if at his best with a stage win. Don't think we'll see it, though, because he will stick with Visma.
 
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This I don't get at all. Either it's 100% BS or guys in the team are telling Roglic and the DS what to do which is not good. What would have been said if Roglic struggled?

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...-a-roll-as-vuelta-a-espana-nears-its-endgame/
“I said I don’t need the stage, but … I will not say their names, but some guys said, ‘we don’t listen to you anyway, we pull. We have nothing else to do,” he told Eurosport.
“In the end, I had to make a call and I said, ‘okay, then at least we all have to be on the same side and then we go for it.’”
 
This I don't get at all. Either it's 100% BS or guys in the team are telling Roglic and the DS what to do which is not good. What would have been said if Roglic struggled?

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...-a-roll-as-vuelta-a-espana-nears-its-endgame/
“I said I don’t need the stage, but … I will not say their names, but some guys said, ‘we don’t listen to you anyway, we pull. We have nothing else to do,” he told Eurosport.
“In the end, I had to make a call and I said, ‘okay, then at least we all have to be on the same side and then we go for it.’”
I think there is a difference between pulling and then him saying during stage he feels good and doing what they did at the end.
 
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FWIW, your favorite number cruncher has Roglic today on about the same trend line as Pogacar on Plat d’Adet and as Contador on Verbier. Though of course he then goes on to say he wouldn’t be able to beat Remco because he’s biased that way.

Comparing a riders peak race in July
To a later point in the season after a crash is peak Remco delusion syndrome.
 
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This I don't get at all. Either it's 100% BS or guys in the team are telling Roglic and the DS what to do which is not good. What would have been said if Roglic struggled?

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...-a-roll-as-vuelta-a-espana-nears-its-endgame/
“I said I don’t need the stage, but … I will not say their names, but some guys said, ‘we don’t listen to you anyway, we pull. We have nothing else to do,” he told Eurosport.
“In the end, I had to make a call and I said, ‘okay, then at least we all have to be on the same side and then we go for it.’”

It's tongue-in-cheek Rog humor. But you can also read between the lines.

Just like last Friday on Ancares the plan was clear: drill the foot of the climb US Postal blue train style and launch Rog. I assume the question then was 'stage win or not stage win'.

So Denz did the work with Gamper on the flat and ensured the team got their third stage win of this Vuelta.
 
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This I don't get at all. Either it's 100% BS or guys in the team are telling Roglic and the DS what to do which is not good. What would have been said if Roglic struggled?

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...-a-roll-as-vuelta-a-espana-nears-its-endgame/
“I said I don’t need the stage, but … I will not say their names, but some guys said, ‘we don’t listen to you anyway, we pull. We have nothing else to do,” he told Eurosport.
“In the end, I had to make a call and I said, ‘okay, then at least we all have to be on the same side and then we go for it.’”
Roglič wanted to spare guys from pulling all day and holding break close. He wanted a break to win and him attacking GC guys only.
Guys didn't want to be sparred. They wanted to work for him and putting him in a position to win the stage. I'm sure if he would say he doesn't feel good, they would stop pulling anyway.

If that is not a team, i don't know what it is. Guys are willingly working for him beyond what's needed.