Vuelta Andalucia 2012. feb 19th - feb 23th(2.1 UCI Europe Tour)

[El Pistolero]

Time for a "Patrick Gretsch is the new Eddy Merckx" thread

Two wins for 1t4i in one day. They're now the biggest team of the Netherlands (Germany).

Quite funny how a pro conti team is outdoing the 2 Dutch WT squads. That said, I'm glad stupidnameteam is not in the WT. They get all the invites they want anyway, but they lack in the non-sprinting department.

 

[classicomano]

Gesink is back.

 

[El Pistolero]

Kelderman is way too good to specialize in prologues.

Cancellara specialized in prologues before his big break-through. I don't mean just focus on that aspect of cycling by the way

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Gesink 7:06, very very decent for a guy who was out for so long

 

[cineteq]

Gesink 7:06 (with one leg) better than Menchov 7:12

 

[theyoungest]

Kelderman weighs 63 kgs or something like that, not really the build of a prologue specialist. He just happens to be quite good at them.

Not bad by Gesink.

 

[Kwibus]

Quite funny how a pro conti team is outdoing the 2 Dutch WT squads. That said, I'm glad stupidnameteam is not in the WT. They get all the invites they want anyway, but they lack in the non-sprinting department.

I'm sure you find it funny.
1t4i plays it smart by investing in riders that can win. Something Vacansoleil totally forgot and Rabo as well to a lesser extent.
Rabo builds it's team around dutch riders and adds a few useful foreign riders. Normally that would be riders that can win or domestiques they can't get in Holland. Garate and Barredo are imo useful riders, but LuLu was a rider they got into the team to win them races. From the moment they signed him I was very skeptical and well.. he has yet to do anything useful. Sure he won that TdF stage last year, but without the crash in the peloton they wouldn't have stayed away.

1t41 also got lucky that Kittel ended up being the biggest sprinting talent atm. I don't think they had foreseen this. They knew he was good, but not this good.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

1. Patrick Gretsch (Project 1t41) 6:49
2. Markel Irizar (RadioShack) 6:51
3. Jerome Coppel (Saur Sojasun) 6:52
4. Michael Matthews (Rabobank) 6:55
5. Gaetan Bille (Lotto-Belisol) 6:57
6. Matthias Brandle (NetApp) 6:59
7. Maxime Monfort (RadioShack-Nissan) 6:59
8. Wilco Keldermann (Rabobank) 7:00
9. Tom Dumoulin (Project 1t4i) 7:00
10. Iván Gutiérrez (Movistar Team) 7:01

 

[Kwibus]

Gesink 7:06 (with one leg) better than Menchov 7:12

Nice. I'm hoping for a great season for him. He has the talent just lacks the luck or skill to stay on the bike.
Also has to endure ****loads of bs in the dutch press so best wishes to him.

 

[theyoungest]

Quite funny how a pro conti team is outdoing the 2 Dutch WT squads. That said, I'm glad stupidnameteam is not in the WT. They get all the invites they want anyway, but they lack in the non-sprinting department.

Your last point is quite important. They said they had GC ambitions in Oman, with their "two climbers". Bonnin is sort of a climber, don't know who they thought was the other one. Ludvigsson?

Anyway, they finished way down.

 

[El Pistolero]

I'm sure you find it funny.
1t4i plays it smart by investing in riders that can win. Something Vacansoleil totally forgot and Rabo as well to a lesser extent.
Rabo builds it's team around dutch riders and adds a few useful foreign riders. Normally that would be riders that can win or domestiques they can't get in Holland. Garate and Barredo are imo useful riders, but LuLu was a rider they got into the team to win them races. From the moment they signed him I was very skeptical and well.. he has yet to do anything useful. Sure he won that TdF stage last year, but without the crash in the peloton they wouldn't have stayed away.

1t41 also got lucky that Kittel ended up being the biggest sprinting talent atm. I don't think they had foreseen this. They knew he was good, but not this good.

Never the less, they also have Degenkolb and Patrick Gretsch. Both can bring in wins in the smaller races(or even the bigger ones like the Dauphiné). Looking at Rabobank, I don't see a lot of guaranteed winners to be honest. If I got to chose between Renshaw and Degenkolb, I would have gone for Degenkolb. Can't believe no WT squad pushed harder to sign him.

 

[El Pistolero]

1. Patrick Gretsch (Project 1t41) 6:49
2. Markel Irizar (RadioShack) 6:51
3. Jerome Coppel (Saur Sojasun) 6:52
4. Michael Matthews (Rabobank) 6:55
5. Gaetan Bille (Lotto-Belisol) 6:57
6. Matthias Brandle (NetApp) 6:59
7. Maxime Monfort (RadioShack-Nissan) 6:59
8. Wilco Keldermann (Rabobank) 7:00
9. Tom Dumoulin (Project 1t4i) 7:00
10. Iván Gutiérrez (Movistar Team) 7:01

A lot of young talent in this top 10...

 

[theyoungest]

Never the less, they also have Degenkolb and Patrick Gretsch. Both can bring in wins in the smaller races(or even the bigger ones like the Dauphiné). Looking at Rabobank, I don't see a lot of guaranteed winners to be honest. If I got to chose between Renshaw and Degenkolb, I would have gone for Degenkolb. Can't believe no WT squad pushed harder to sign him.

They have Matthews, who is the same type of sprinter as Degenkolb (and, in my opinion, certainly not worse).

 

[Kwibus]

Never the less, they also have Degenkolb and Patrick Gretsch. Both can bring in wins in the smaller races(or even the bigger ones like the Dauphiné). Looking at Rabobank, I don't see a lot of guaranteed winners to be honest. If I got to chose between Renshaw and Degenkolb, I would have gone for Degenkolb. Can't believe no WT squad pushed harder to sign him.

Definately. Rabobank fails hard when they get new foreign 'top' riders usually.

Allthough I think Breschel is a very good rider he isn't a garanteed winner, but I think he's worth it. Lulu and Renshaw should've never been contracted for what they expected them to do.

edit: Like theyoungest said. Rabo has Matthews and if you got him you don't get Degenkolb as well.

 

[El Pistolero]

Definately. Rabobank fails hard when they get new foreign 'top' riders usually.

Allthough I think Breschel is a very good rider he isn't a garanteed winner, but I think he's worth it. Lulu and Renshaw should've never been contracted for what they expected them to do.

Breschel in 2010 was a very classy rider He'll get back at that level some day. I think it will be next season though, if he can finally ride an injury free season as he was more out than in last year.

Ps: I didn't say Rabo had no guaranteed winners. And you can have both Matthews and Degenkolb. In fact, I think Degenkolb would be more loyal than Matthews if you know what I mean

You just have to put them in different races. Degenkolb in Vuelta, Matthews in Giro for example.

 

[theyoungest]

Breschel in 2010 was a very classy rider He'll get back at that level some day. I think it will be next season though, if he can finally ride an injury free season as he was more out than in last year.

Ps: I didn't say Rabo had no guaranteed winners. And you can have both Matthews and Degenkolb. In fact, I think Degenkolb would be more loyal than Matthews if you know what I mean

You just have to put them in different races. Degenkolb in Vuelta, Matthews in Giro for example.

But to complement Matthews, it's better to have a sprinter for flat races. They already have him, he's called Theo Bos, and they'll soon find out he's faster than Renshaw.

BTW, you're criticizing Rabo for their selection of sprinters, but how are BMC doing on that front...?

 

[Panda Claws]

Indeed, if Renshaw really is the best lead-out in the world. Shouldn't he be able to make up for Bos' lack of positioning?

 

[El Pistolero]

I'm criticizing them for their lack of (big) winners, that's all. But I also can't really understand why they bought Renshaw, money that could have been better spent in my opinion. It's like buying TGAK

 

[Panda Claws]

Isn't BMC hoping that Blythe becomes better?

 

[theyoungest]

I'm criticizing them for their lack of (big) winners, that's all. But I also can't really understand why they bought Renshaw, money that could have been better spent in my opinion. It's like buying TGAK

I get why they brought him, their sprint train used to be a shambles and could use some experience, but getting a leadout man and turning him into a sprinter might not be the best solution.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

If they use Renshaw as leadout man for Bos it could still turn out well. The question is if Renshaw wants that.

Imho Bos is still by far the fastest sprinter they got. He just needs more guidance

 

[Kwibus]

Indeed, if Renshaw really is the best lead-out in the world. Shouldn't he be able to make up for Bos' lack of positioning?

Unfortunately they contracted him by promising him he could ride for his own chances.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

bos is a much quicker finisher.
ohwell.

anyway matthews and degenkolb both similar, tho I like degenkolb more on the cobbles, and matthews a little more in top speed.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

bos is a much quicker finisher.
ohwell.

anyway matthews and degenkolb both similar, tho I like degenkolb more on the cobbles, and matthews a little more in top speed.

How is Degenkolb's dancing?

 

[saosinfangirl]

Vincenzo Nibali @VincenzoNibali

Ci abbiamo provato!! Grazie @Peter_Sagan e compagni per avermi aiutato, era difficile vincere una volata così contro l'omega pharma!!

sarcasm?