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Vuelta Stage 18: Suances → Santo Toribio de Liébana - 169 km

Page 21 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Jul 12, 2013
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Re: Re:

Ruby United said:
jarvo said:
Seems the talk of Froome fading was premature, looked fine today. Woods is my man of the vuelta, doing absolutely brilliant other than the TT

It's the longer climbs Froome will struggle with now - yesterday was slightly longer and didn't suit Froome. The Angliru too will be very hard for Froome with the up-down-up-down style of the last 6 km or so and the longer length.

The weather is more significant than the distance of the climbs IMO
 
Re: Re:

More Strides than Rides said:
Valv.Piti said:
I think this is why some people dislike Sky. Just wow.....

Man, I'm replying to your post but not to you.

I get the Sky hate, I get it. We want to see the animators have opportunities to be entertaining.

But how often you people get on the bike every morning telling themselves "I wish the competition was just a little worse"? Honestly, that is a losers attitude.

I just can't get over the attitude that Sky have any fault, or that what they're doing needs to change. You can not like them, but the way some people are shaping their perspectives is to far off mark.

I like Mano a mani competition. Team racing is fun, but if it's going to be a pseudo team sport, which it is, then they should make an effort to balance the field. No one wants the individuals to be worse to artificially secure the victory for the rider, but we don't want individual efforts and competition to be subsumed by stacked teams a la Sky.
 
Re: Re:

Ataraxus said:
Ruby United said:
jarvo said:
Seems the talk of Froome fading was premature, looked fine today. Woods is my man of the vuelta, doing absolutely brilliant other than the TT

It's the longer climbs Froome will struggle with now - yesterday was slightly longer and didn't suit Froome. The Angliru too will be very hard for Froome with the up-down-up-down style of the last 6 km or so and the longer length.

The weather is more significant than the distance of the climbs IMO
I can tell you from personal experience, that there are no flat spots or downhills for that matter in the last 6 kilometers (not counting the slight downhill to the parking space where the finish line is) beginning with the first ramp of Les Cabannes, whatever that means for Froome's chances. :)
 
Feb 21, 2017
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One thing is for sure, it would interesting to be a fly on the wall for tonight's Astana's dinner table conversation.
 
Contador is just incredible the last few days. First one of his best ITT's in years (I think at least), then his best climb of the past few years, and today again attacking early and still being one of the best on the final climb. What a champion.

He's going to give hell on everyone on saturday
 
Re:

Dekker_Tifosi said:
Contador is just incredible the last few days. First one of his best ITT's in years (I think at least), then his best climb of the past few years, and today again attacking early and still being one of the best on the final climb. What a champion.

He's going to give hell on everyone on saturday
Certainly one of his best flat ITTs. Giro 2015 ITT was something else.
 
Re: Re:

More Strides than Rides said:
Valv.Piti said:
I think this is why some people dislike Sky. Just wow.....

Man, I'm replying to your post but not to you.

I get the Sky hate, I get it. We want to see the animators have opportunities to be entertaining.

But how often you people get on the bike every morning telling themselves "I wish the competition was just a little worse"? Honestly, that is a losers attitude.

I just can't get over the attitude that Sky have any fault, or that what they're doing needs to change. You can not like them, but the way some people are shaping their perspectives is to far off mark.

The tactics make sense to an extent. What's the most ridiculous is them having 5 of the best 20 riders on any terrain in any GT mostly because they can outspend everyone.

This Vuelta really suffers from the murito's in terms of suspense. Climbing efforts of 6-15 minutes with the maximum intensity at the end is Froome's bread and butter. He's not been the best on the long climbs and multi-mountain stages for years.
 
Re: Re:

Baldinger said:
Valv.Piti said:
I think this is why some people dislike Sky. Just wow.....
Agree.

It would be much easier to accept Froome as the best GT rider the last 5 years or whatever, if he was'nt a part of the Sky machine.

You must be joking.

Since 2012:

Froome:
4 Tours
1 Vuelta (pending)
3 GT podiums

Nibali:
2 Giros
1 Tour
4 Podiums (4th is pending)

Contador:
1 Giro
2 Vueltas
0 Podiums

How on earth can you even make a comparison? Completely irrespective of teams! It's a joke!

EDIT: Obviously this is only in respect to the last 5 years and I am not commenting on the riders complete palmares in GT's.
 
Re:

Dekker_Tifosi said:
Contador is just incredible the last few days. First one of his best ITT's in years (I think at least), then his best climb of the past few years, and today again attacking early and still being one of the best on the final climb. What a champion.

He's going to give hell on everyone on saturday

I'm surprised he is doing this well after the Tour. Obviously motivated for himself and his fans in his last race.
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
More Strides than Rides said:
Valv.Piti said:
I think this is why some people dislike Sky. Just wow.....

Man, I'm replying to your post but not to you.

I get the Sky hate, I get it. We want to see the animators have opportunities to be entertaining.

But how often you people get on the bike every morning telling themselves "I wish the competition was just a little worse"? Honestly, that is a losers attitude.

I just can't get over the attitude that Sky have any fault, or that what they're doing needs to change. You can not like them, but the way some people are shaping their perspectives is to far off mark.

The tactics make sense to an extent. What's the most ridiculous is them having 5 of the best 20 riders on any terrain in any GT mostly because they can outspend everyone.

This Vuelta really suffers from the murito's in terms of suspense. Climbing efforts of 6-15 minutes with the maximum intensity at the end is Froome's bread and butter. He's not been the best on the long climbs and multi-mountain stages for years.

That's alway been the probem of the Vuelta, not enough multiple hard climbs done at full speed like at the TDF...
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
More Strides than Rides said:
Valv.Piti said:
I think this is why some people dislike Sky. Just wow.....

Man, I'm replying to your post but not to you.

I get the Sky hate, I get it. We want to see the animators have opportunities to be entertaining.

But how often you people get on the bike every morning telling themselves "I wish the competition was just a little worse"? Honestly, that is a losers attitude.

I just can't get over the attitude that Sky have any fault, or that what they're doing needs to change. You can not like them, but the way some people are shaping their perspectives is to far off mark.

The tactics make sense to an extent. What's the most ridiculous is them having 5 of the best 20 riders on any terrain in any GT mostly because they can outspend everyone.

This Vuelta really suffers from the murito's in terms of suspense. Climbing efforts of 6-15 minutes with the maximum intensity at the end is Froome's bread and butter. He's not been the best on the long climbs and multi-mountain stages for years.

I like the muritos...afterall the Tour has long climbs and SKY have that race sown up
The problem is cycling can be reduced to a formula if you have the strongest riders and rotate them as SKY does ..and this is what is happeneing .....there is little viable competetion in team terms .....I believe Contador and Nibali would do as well as Froome if in SKY but we cannot see these riders equalled on the stages becasue of SKY dominance ...this is a turn off for the cycling fans...we want drama, suspense and narrative ...But there only one narrative and that is control......Its admirable by SKY ,,,they do their homework and know how to win ...but its lacks anything that keeps a neutral fan interested unfortunatley ...And unfortunatley its going to get worse when Contador leaves
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
More Strides than Rides said:
Valv.Piti said:
I think this is why some people dislike Sky. Just wow.....

Man, I'm replying to your post but not to you.

I get the Sky hate, I get it. We want to see the animators have opportunities to be entertaining.

But how often you people get on the bike every morning telling themselves "I wish the competition was just a little worse"? Honestly, that is a losers attitude.

I just can't get over the attitude that Sky have any fault, or that what they're doing needs to change. You can not like them, but the way some people are shaping their perspectives is to far off mark.

The tactics make sense to an extent. What's the most ridiculous is them having 5 of the best 20 riders on any terrain in any GT mostly because they can outspend everyone.

This Vuelta really suffers from the murito's in terms of suspense. Climbing efforts of 6-15 minutes with the maximum intensity at the end is Froome's bread and butter. He's not been the best on the long climbs and multi-mountain stages for years.

I would comment, though, that if Purito and/or Valverde were here the murito's would be much more interesting. Part of the problem is that none of the real mountain-hill specialists (like those two) of recent history are racing in this Vuelta.
 
Aug 6, 2015
4,139
2
0
Re: Re:

Ruby United said:
Baldinger said:
Valv.Piti said:
I think this is why some people dislike Sky. Just wow.....
Agree.

It would be much easier to accept Froome as the best GT rider the last 5 years or whatever, if he was'nt a part of the Sky machine.

You must be joking.

Since 2012:

Froome:
4 Tours
1 Vuelta (pending)
3 GT podiums

Nibali:
2 Giros
1 Tour
4 Podiums (4th is pending)

Contador:
1 Giro
2 Vueltas
0 Podiums

How on earth can you even make a comparison? Completely irrespective of teams! It's a joke!

EDIT: Obviously this is only in respect to the last 5 years and I am not commenting on the riders complete palmares in GT's.
His team helps him a lot... how would he do if contador attacked and he didn't have any teammate?
For example ax3 domaines would never happened because the tempo would not be so high (he would have gained the stage anyways). He would feel a lot more pressure from his rivals and he would have to respond by his own because he didn't have a porte to drag him until 3/4 km to the finish line
 
Re:

Valv.Piti said:
I think this is why some people dislike Sky. Just wow.....

Obviously it's because people do not have the maturity to accept the results with grace and congratulate the deserving winner for a good ride when the winner beats their favorite rider.
 
Re: Re:

portugal11 said:
Ruby United said:
Baldinger said:
Valv.Piti said:
I think this is why some people dislike Sky. Just wow.....
Agree.

It would be much easier to accept Froome as the best GT rider the last 5 years or whatever, if he was'nt a part of the Sky machine.

You must be joking.

Since 2012:

Froome:
4 Tours
1 Vuelta (pending)
3 GT podiums

Nibali:
2 Giros
1 Tour
4 Podiums (4th is pending)
......
His team helps him a lot... how would he do if contador attacked and he didn't have any teammate?
For example ax3 domaines would never happened because the tempo would not be so high (he would have gained the stage anyways). He would feel a lot more pressure from his rivals and he would have to respond by his own because he didn't have a porte to drag him until 3/4 km to the finish line

I completely agree with you.
Sky is better at GT's than any other team. And Froome is better at GT's than any other rider.
The two together = 4 Tours in 5 years.
 
Re: Re:

Ruby United said:
Baldinger said:
Valv.Piti said:
I think this is why some people dislike Sky. Just wow.....
Agree.

It would be much easier to accept Froome as the best GT rider the last 5 years or whatever, if he was'nt a part of the Sky machine.

You must be joking.

Since 2012:

Froome:
4 Tours
1 Vuelta (pending)
3 GT podiums

Nibali:
2 Giros
1 Tour
4 Podiums (4th is pending)

Contador:
1 Giro
2 Vueltas
0 Podiums

How on earth can you even make a comparison? Completely irrespective of teams! It's a joke!

EDIT: Obviously this is only in respect to the last 5 years and I am not commenting on the riders complete palmares in GT's.
All you've done is list the riders' palmares which doesn't really prove him wrong. The poster is basically saying that these palmares are because of Froome's team
 
Re: Re:

Ruby United said:
I completely agree with you.
Sky is better at GT's than any other team. And Froome is better at GT's than any other rider.
The two together = 4 Tours in 5 years.

There's too much emphasis being put on the team and not on the rider.
Most GTs are won either by the strongest rider, or the 2nd strongest rider if the strongest rider's team screwed up (e.g. 2011 Vuelta, 2012 Vuelta, 2014 Tour, 2016 Vuelta).

Having a strong team simply reduces the chances of the the team screwing up.
 
Re: Re:

wwabbit said:
Valv.Piti said:
I think this is why some people dislike Sky. Just wow.....

Obviously it's because people do not have the maturity to accept the results with grace and congratulate the deserving winner for a good ride when the winner beats their favorite rider.
Or perhaps that people don't like the winner because he is arrogant, boasts about animal cruelty, boasts about warning UCI over mechanical doping when Femke van Driessche gets caught, or his The Climb book (the coffee thing for example), or his whining about Contador attacking on a descent in Gap '13 or his whining about Nibali attacking in La Touissure '15 or the identity theft, or some of his statements about clinic matters.
 
Re: Re:

Ruby United said:
portugal11 said:
Ruby United said:
Baldinger said:
Valv.Piti said:
I think this is why some people dislike Sky. Just wow.....
Agree.

It would be much easier to accept Froome as the best GT rider the last 5 years or whatever, if he was'nt a part of the Sky machine.

You must be joking.

Since 2012:

Froome:
4 Tours
1 Vuelta (pending)
3 GT podiums

Nibali:
2 Giros
1 Tour
4 Podiums (4th is pending)
......
His team helps him a lot... how would he do if contador attacked and he didn't have any teammate?
For example ax3 domaines would never happened because the tempo would not be so high (he would have gained the stage anyways). He would feel a lot more pressure from his rivals and he would have to respond by his own because he didn't have a porte to drag him until 3/4 km to the finish line

I completely agree with you.
Sky is better at GT's than any other team. And Froome is better at GT's than any other rider.
The two together = 4 Tours in 5 years.
Yes, that's why he said accept rather than believe. Froome is clearly better than anyone else (for the time being) but it's annoying because of his team.
 

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