WADA Getting Ready to Reinstate Russia

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If USADA, Tygart and WADA are so concerned about doping and so concerned about what non-Olympic sanctioned sports do or don't do, why don't they get involved in the MLB, NBA, NFL and NHL?
They have been involved, e.g., offering advice and assistance to the NFL on expanding testing.. But none of these leagues is a signatory to WADA, nor can WADA compel them to sign on.

WADA expressed concern after Aljazeera reported on a U.S. clinic selling HGH to NFL and MLB players . But where these sports are concerned, WADA can't do much more. One might better ask, where were all the sports journalists when evidence, which was never denied, indicated Petyon Manning's wife ordered HGH, even as several medical experts testified it that it should be legally prescribed only for several quite rare diseases, none of which Ashley Manning appeared to have. Not to mention that probably a majority of NFL fans are fine with doping, really don't care at all whether players on their team are doing it.
 
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They have been involved, e.g., offering advice and assistance to the NFL on expanding testing.. But none of these leagues is a signatory to WADA, nor can WADA compel them to sign on.

WADA expressed concern after Aljazeera reported on a U.S. clinic selling HGH to NFL and MLB players . But where these sports are concerned, WADA can't do much more. One might better ask, where were all the sports journalists when evidence, which was never denied, indicated Petyon Manning's wife ordered HGH, even as several medical experts testified it that it should be legally prescribed only for several quite rare diseases, none of which Ashley Manning appeared to have. Not to mention that probably a majority of NFL fans are fine with doping, really don't care at all whether players on their team are doing it.

The fact that some NFL fans are not happy about some of the new NFL rules that were put in for safety, I highly doubt many care about whether or not the athletes are doping. I don't remember much caring when it became known NFL players were using steroids. There was more unhappiness by MLB fans over steroids usage.
 
WADA Athlete Committee want a complete ban on Russian Olympic participation

With the latest finding that Russia contravened the terms of its reinstatement as code-compliant, the Athlete Committee members are pushing for a stronger response.
"We maintain that the fraud, manipulation and deception revealed to date will only be encouraged and perpetuated with a lesser response," the statement said.



https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wada-athletes-committee-want-a-complete-ban-on-russian-olympic-participation/
 
WADA Athlete Committee want a complete ban on Russian Olympic participation

With the latest finding that Russia contravened the terms of its reinstatement as code-compliant, the Athlete Committee members are pushing for a stronger response.
"We maintain that the fraud, manipulation and deception revealed to date will only be encouraged and perpetuated with a lesser response," the statement said.



https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wada-athletes-committee-want-a-complete-ban-on-russian-olympic-participation/
Of course they do. They should work as policemen/women in the United States: shoot first ask questions later.

They have no evidence, but they want to ban entire countries. Laughable.
 
Again, does WADA organize all these events? How can that organization ban entire countries? The decisions fall or should fall to individual organizations and the IOC. WADA doesn't organize any of those events, they only administer and help administer anti-doping tests. What right do they have to ban countries from competing?
 
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Wonder, what will it mean for different sports? Will all sports apply the same approach as athletics, where Russian athletes compete everywhere under the ANA tag? And obviously it would mean everyone, who has ever been caught doping, won't ever be able to compete again.
 
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Wonder, what will it mean for different sports? Will all sports apply the same approach as athletics, where Russian athletes compete everywhere under the ANA tag? And obviously it would mean everyone, who has ever been caught doping, won't ever be able to compete again.
In four years, XC skiing may be utterly, utterly dead as an international sport. Why not just give up and move every FIS world cup race in the calendar to Norway, except two races in Sweden and one in Finland. You could call it "World Series" or something.
 
In four years, XC skiing may be utterly, utterly dead as an international sport. Why not just give up and move every FIS world cup race in the calendar to Norway, except two races in Sweden and one in Finland. You could call it "World Series" or something.
FIS' official statement appears not to mention what will happen with regards to ordinary World Cup events, only World Championships and Olympics. It sounds from Drachëv's statement that the same is expected from IBU, whose own statement is that they are setting up a "Biathlon Integrity Unit" to put measures in place to enact the recommendations, and although not stated it seems potentially implied that this would then preside over assessing which athletes if any are to be allowed to compete. IBU recently introduced a significant tightening of the screws around nation-switching too, so without the scope for an ANA-style workaround, this really would be a kick in the teeth for a number of Russian athletes who had nothing to do with Sochi but are too old to change nation without the now-required two year gap in competition. We can at least use the Pyeongchang precedent as a pointer toward who may or may not pass the checks, but obviously in light of the more recent info this is by no means definitive and some who were approved then may not be now. Hopefully the SBR is a bit smarter than Konovalov was a couple of years ago (he only nominated his chosen A-team for checks, resulting in only 4 athletes, whereas Välbe nominated almost any international calibre XC skier with the aim of making a reasonable team out of the remainder).

Again, does WADA organize all these events? How can that organization ban entire countries? The decisions fall or should fall to individual organizations and the IOC. WADA doesn't organize any of those events, they only administer and help administer anti-doping tests. What right do they have to ban countries from competing?
I suspect they don't, literally speaking, but would withdraw their approval - and potentially with it the IOC's - from any major event not compliant with their code, which would obviously especially hit any Olympic sport, as it would place its Olympic presence in jeopardy.
Wonder, what will it mean for different sports? Will all sports apply the same approach as athletics, where Russian athletes compete everywhere under the ANA tag? And obviously it would mean everyone, who has ever been caught doping, won't ever be able to compete again.
Which is of course double jeopardy and double standards of such a flagrant extent that they could actually likely have a case for discrimination. In the current CQ Ranking top 150, you have Alejandro Valverde, Diego Ulissi, Giovanni Visconti, Simon Yates and Ilnur Zakarin. But only one of them is likely to be forbidden from competing in the Olympics because of their doping history, and it's the guy whose suspension is the furthest in the past, and that's because of where he was born. There's already a fairly alarming precedent from Pyeongchang in the case of Timofey Lapshin, who was not only named in the McLaren docs but tested positive in them, for a steroid of some kind in a Russian Cup race used as an international selection event ahead of Sochi. Timofey Lapshin competed in Pyeongchang while Daria Virolaynen and Irina Uslugina - neither of whom were mentioned in McLaren at all - were barred. Timofey Lapshin got a Korean passport in 2017 and ceased competing for Russia, so he was fine despite having demonstrably doped.

I mean, again, no use complaining about a witch hunt if you're actually a witch, but there's just so many issues raised by using such a sledgehammer method that I can't see this not running and running.
 
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FIS' official statement appears not to mention what will happen with regards to ordinary World Cup events, only World Championships and Olympics. It sounds from Drachëv's statement that the same is expected from IBU, whose own statement is that they are setting up a "Biathlon Integrity Unit" to put measures in place to enact the recommendations, and although not stated it seems potentially implied that this would then preside over assessing which athletes if any are to be allowed to compete. IBU recently introduced a significant tightening of the screws around nation-switching too, so without the scope for an ANA-style workaround, this really would be a kick in the teeth for a number of Russian athletes who had nothing to do with Sochi but are too old to change nation without the now-required two year gap in competition. We can at least use the Pyeongchang precedent as a pointer toward who may or may not pass the checks, but obviously in light of the more recent info this is by no means definitive and some who were approved then may not be now. Hopefully the SBR is a bit smarter than Konovalov was a couple of years ago (he only nominated his chosen A-team for checks, resulting in only 4 athletes, whereas Välbe nominated almost any international calibre XC skier with the aim of making a reasonable team out of the remainder).


I suspect they don't, literally speaking, but would withdraw their approval - and potentially with it the IOC's - from any major event not compliant with their code, which would obviously especially hit any Olympic sport, as it would place its Olympic presence in jeopardy.

Which is of course double jeopardy and double standards of such a flagrant extent that they could actually likely have a case for discrimination. In the current CQ Ranking top 150, you have Alejandro Valverde, Diego Ulissi, Giovanni Visconti, Simon Yates and Ilnur Zakarin. But only one of them is likely to be forbidden from competing in the Olympics because of their doping history, and it's the guy whose suspension is the furthest in the past, and that's because of where he was born. There's already a fairly alarming precedent from Pyeongchang in the case of Timofey Lapshin, who was not only named in the McLaren docs but tested positive in them, for a steroid of some kind in a Russian Cup race used as an international selection event ahead of Sochi. Timofey Lapshin competed in Pyeongchang while Daria Virolaynen and Irina Uslugina - neither of whom were mentioned in McLaren at all - were barred. Timofey Lapshin got a Korean passport in 2017 and ceased competing for Russia, so he was fine despite having demonstrably doped.

I mean, again, no use complaining about a witch hunt if you're actually a witch, but there's just so many issues raised by using such a sledgehammer method that I can't see this not running and running.
I agree on all fronts. The entire thing stinks to high heaven. They still haven’t proven anything concrete in three years since the ‘report.’ They rely on only one mans words, an individual that was investigated and sought for persecution for criminal activity. He fled the country when and received a visa when he told American authorities what they wanted to hear.

It’s extremely disturbing when athletes that have never been implicated in anything and have no failed doping tests have to prove they are clean. What more could they do? The IOC never gave out explanations on why athletes like Ustiugov and Ahn weren’t allowed to compete in Korea. They were not in any document or list, they never failed doping tests and never were associated with coaches that have had athletes that failed doping tests. Why were they banned.

Why do dopers like Denise Herrmann, Martin Johnsrud Sundby and Therese Johaug get to compete in the Olympics and Alexander Loginov does not? And why, again, not someone that doesn’t have a doping history, at all?

I don’t doubt that this will be taken to court. It was already taken to court three years ago and the vast majority of athletes were cleared of wrongdoing. CAS dismissed WADA, McLaren’s and Rodchenkov’s claims. How can they still be pushing this? No valid evidence was ever put forward.
 
I agree on all fronts. The entire thing stinks to high heaven. They still haven’t proven anything concrete in three years since the ‘report.’ They rely on only one mans words, an individual that was investigated and sought for persecution for criminal activity. He fled the country when and received a visa when he told American authorities what they wanted to hear.

It’s extremely disturbing when athletes that have never been implicated in anything and have no failed doping tests have to prove they are clean. What more could they do? The IOC never gave out explanations on why athletes like Ustiugov and Ahn weren’t allowed to compete in Korea. They were not in any document or list, they never failed doping tests and never were associated with coaches that have had athletes that failed doping tests. Why were they banned.

Why do dopers like Denise Herrmann, Martin Johnsrud Sundby and Therese Johaug get to compete in the Olympics and Alexander Loginov does not? And why, again, not someone that doesn’t have a doping history, at all?

I don’t doubt that this will be taken to court. It was already taken to court three years ago and the vast majority of athletes were cleared of wrongdoing. CAS dismissed WADA, McLaren’s and Rodchenkov’s claims. How can they still be pushing this? No valid evidence was ever put forward.
I thought I read somewhere that this decision does not base solely on Mclaren report, but to the fact that WADA has found concrete evidence that the Rusada files they collected (after admitted one month later than the deadline) had hundreds of test result either missing/deleted or the data was manipulated. If the data would've been clean, this decision would've probably not taken place. As far as I've understood.

How they concretely decide who can compete under ANA and who not is of course mystery and interesting legal challenge for sure.
 
Well, it would be difficult to 'prove' anything when evidence is tampered with.



https://www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com/moscow-lims-manipulation-give-them-enough-rope/
If there is no 'evidence' of the evidence, how can you know what is tampered and what isn't and who was doping and who wasn't? How do they know what something is supposed to look like if they've never seen it?

To me it's a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. They simply wanted a blanket ban, no matter what.
 
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I mean, again, no use complaining about a witch hunt if you're actually a witch, but there's just so many issues raised by using such a sledgehammer method that I can't see this not running and running.
I'm sure doping problems in Russia are deep and thorough, but at the moment we are given the impression like they are the only culprits, while the rest of the world is "clean". All this means this topic will indeed keep just running and running with no-one satisfied with any of the outcomes in the end.
 
I'm sure doping problems in Russia are deep and thorough, but at the moment we are given the impression like they are the only culprits, while the rest of the world is "clean". All this means this topic will indeed keep just running and running with no-one satisfied with any of the outcomes in the end.
They'll say 'yes, there is doping but Russia is the only one using the government...' It's a predictable answer. And what you wrote will likely be met with 'that's typical what aboutism.' They'll play those cards to no end. Even if there is little to no evidence, it's ingrained in people's minds, but I think the real ardent Russophobes like Travis Tygart, Beckie Scott and Linda Helelland (to name a few) had this in their minds for a while, for them Russia has always been enemy number one, even before 2014/2015. They have pushed for Russia to be banned for years. Whenever a question of doping came up, whenever someone was caught doping and the ones I mentioned above talked about it, they almost always retrieved back to Russia, even when a scandal had nothing to do with Russia. If you look at their statements, they are still not happy. I've never seen so much vitriol and hate towards a particular country in terms of sport, certainly not in the 21st century. I am sure I'll get criticized for that.
 
I thought I read somewhere that this decision does not base solely on Mclaren report, but to the fact that WADA has found concrete evidence that the Rusada files they collected (after admitted one month later than the deadline) had hundreds of test result either missing/deleted or the data was manipulated. If the data would've been clean, this decision would've probably not taken place. As far as I've understood.

How they concretely decide who can compete under ANA and who not is of course mystery and interesting legal challenge for sure.
There were a number of gaps in the testing in the McLaren report. That was in part why the numbers were so big. In biathlon there was a significant number, and some of them were listed with question marks or notes - Romanova had a couple which were simply marked "scratched sample" and there was one for somebody else, my memory is saying Zaitseva, but probably more likely Vilukhina as she was one of the two that got suspensions straight away from the report data, which had a salt reading beyond the realm of human possibility, so it was known that it had to have been tampered.

At the same time, the numbers were inflated somewhat in a few other ways. I've mentioned before that there were 12 athletes who appeared in the files solely because they were subjected to one test on one particular date in Sochi at a training camp for the junior team, 11 of whom came back clean and one of whom had no result logged. Evidence of tampering? A sample gone missing? Or just an error of logging? Or a dry run for how to make a sample disappear when the big guns came in a few months later? Just too hard to tell, but there was really nothing that suggested anything against any of those athletes. And IOC clearly agreed, since Kaisheva was one of them and she was one of the four Russian biathletes who was cleared to compete at Pyeongchang. So was Latypov, though his later meldonium positive - even though that was then quashed as it turned out the substance had been banned before they knew enough about it, and its long half-life led to a number of false positives, contested cases and similar fiascos - will probably prevent him from any further competition as an ANA if the ban is upheld. Some of the others that have made it onto the World Cup since were also part of that group. You'd think they'd stand a good chance of appearing as an ANA if Kaisheva was cleared and they've been competing at international level for the last few years too - Eliseev, Povarnitsyn, Mironova and Pavlova would have been in the junior age groups that year too - but we will probably be saying goodbye to Malyshko, Garanichev and their generation, plus almost certainly Loginov, Starykh and Glazyrina.
 
If there is no 'evidence' of the evidence, how can you know what is tampered and what isn't and who was doping and who wasn't? How do they know what something is supposed to look like if they've never seen it?

To me it's a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. They simply wanted a blanket ban, no matter what.
Are you asking these questions having read the link? If not, then I'd suggest that you do, because it should answer some of your questions at least in part.

Edit: and as far as I am aware, noone is denying that the lab data was modified, the parties only differ on who, when and why, so whatever argument you are trying to make is a non-starter.
 
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Are you asking these questions having read the link? If not, then I'd suggest that you do, because it should answer some of your questions at least in part.

Edit: and as far as I am aware, noone is denying that the lab data was modified, the parties only differ on who, when and why, so whatever argument you are trying to make is a non-starter.
Rodchenkov and a third party in the US manipulated the lab results back in 2015/2016. The guy is a convicted criminal who was seeking a visa and got it in exchange of saying whatever the US authorities wanted to hear.

It's really not that hard to put one plus one together.

The Russian cross country ski team was regularly tested by FIS anti-doping units and WADA for what, a 5-10 year period, without RUSADA. Now all of a sudden that isn't good enough? When RUSADA was first said to be 'non-compliant,' UKAD was there to assist and administer anti-doping tests. That also wasn't good enough? Did UKAD manipulate the Moscow database? Did the FIS anti-doping units manipulate tests? Curious how when Rodchenkov was head of the laboratory the Russians were doping, and he still keeps saying they are doping. How does he know? Is he still administering tests? Since RUSADA has been non-compliant, independent testers from organizations like FIS, IBU, FINA, etc test the Russians regularly, likely more than any other country, does that mean those organizations should be made 'non-compliant' as well? The logic behind WADA's decision making is dubious at best and downright discriminatory at worst.

There are so many disturbing decisions here by the so called 'independent' WADA...one of those is recommending that Russian athletes compete as neutrals, but if the Russian Olympic Committee isn't banned, and there is no blanket ban, why aren't the athletes allowed to compete with an RUS next to their name?
 
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