WADA Getting Ready to Reinstate Russia

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I thought I read somewhere that this decision does not base solely on Mclaren report, but to the fact that WADA has found concrete evidence that the Rusada files they collected (after admitted one month later than the deadline) had hundreds of test result either missing/deleted or the data was manipulated. If the data would've been clean, this decision would've probably not taken place. As far as I've understood.

How they concretely decide who can compete under ANA and who not is of course mystery and interesting legal challenge for sure.
There were a number of gaps in the testing in the McLaren report. That was in part why the numbers were so big. In biathlon there was a significant number, and some of them were listed with question marks or notes - Romanova had a couple which were simply marked "scratched sample" and there was one for somebody else, my memory is saying Zaitseva, but probably more likely Vilukhina as she was one of the two that got suspensions straight away from the report data, which had a salt reading beyond the realm of human possibility, so it was known that it had to have been tampered.

At the same time, the numbers were inflated somewhat in a few other ways. I've mentioned before that there were 12 athletes who appeared in the files solely because they were subjected to one test on one particular date in Sochi at a training camp for the junior team, 11 of whom came back clean and one of whom had no result logged. Evidence of tampering? A sample gone missing? Or just an error of logging? Or a dry run for how to make a sample disappear when the big guns came in a few months later? Just too hard to tell, but there was really nothing that suggested anything against any of those athletes. And IOC clearly agreed, since Kaisheva was one of them and she was one of the four Russian biathletes who was cleared to compete at Pyeongchang. So was Latypov, though his later meldonium positive - even though that was then quashed as it turned out the substance had been banned before they knew enough about it, and its long half-life led to a number of false positives, contested cases and similar fiascos - will probably prevent him from any further competition as an ANA if the ban is upheld. Some of the others that have made it onto the World Cup since were also part of that group. You'd think they'd stand a good chance of appearing as an ANA if Kaisheva was cleared and they've been competing at international level for the last few years too - Eliseev, Povarnitsyn, Mironova and Pavlova would have been in the junior age groups that year too - but we will probably be saying goodbye to Malyshko, Garanichev and their generation, plus almost certainly Loginov, Starykh and Glazyrina.
 
If there is no 'evidence' of the evidence, how can you know what is tampered and what isn't and who was doping and who wasn't? How do they know what something is supposed to look like if they've never seen it?

To me it's a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. They simply wanted a blanket ban, no matter what.
Are you asking these questions having read the link? If not, then I'd suggest that you do, because it should answer some of your questions at least in part.

Edit: and as far as I am aware, noone is denying that the lab data was modified, the parties only differ on who, when and why, so whatever argument you are trying to make is a non-starter.
 
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Are you asking these questions having read the link? If not, then I'd suggest that you do, because it should answer some of your questions at least in part.

Edit: and as far as I am aware, noone is denying that the lab data was modified, the parties only differ on who, when and why, so whatever argument you are trying to make is a non-starter.
Rodchenkov and a third party in the US manipulated the lab results back in 2015/2016. The guy is a convicted criminal who was seeking a visa and got it in exchange of saying whatever the US authorities wanted to hear.

It's really not that hard to put one plus one together.

The Russian cross country ski team was regularly tested by FIS anti-doping units and WADA for what, a 5-10 year period, without RUSADA. Now all of a sudden that isn't good enough? When RUSADA was first said to be 'non-compliant,' UKAD was there to assist and administer anti-doping tests. That also wasn't good enough? Did UKAD manipulate the Moscow database? Did the FIS anti-doping units manipulate tests? Curious how when Rodchenkov was head of the laboratory the Russians were doping, and he still keeps saying they are doping. How does he know? Is he still administering tests? Since RUSADA has been non-compliant, independent testers from organizations like FIS, IBU, FINA, etc test the Russians regularly, likely more than any other country, does that mean those organizations should be made 'non-compliant' as well? The logic behind WADA's decision making is dubious at best and downright discriminatory at worst.

There are so many disturbing decisions here by the so called 'independent' WADA...one of those is recommending that Russian athletes compete as neutrals, but if the Russian Olympic Committee isn't banned, and there is no blanket ban, why aren't the athletes allowed to compete with an RUS next to their name?
 
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Do you have a source that he is a 'convicted criminal'?

Looks more like a highly valued expert in his field (even decorated by his country's authorities) who should have no problems gaining entry into other countries

https://phototass1.cdnvideo.ru/width/1200_4ce85301/tass/m2/uploads/i/20160711/4288778.jpg

As for your paragraph 3, my understanding is that according to Taylor or some other WADA person, the issues with test results are up to the end of 2015, so again I am not sure what your indignation is about.

And in para 4, why would you care about that? You're not Russian, you only parrot the state line...
 
Do you have a source that he is a 'convicted criminal'?

Looks more like a highly valued expert in his field (even decorated by his country's authorities) who should have no problems gaining entry into other countries

https://phototass1.cdnvideo.ru/width/1200_4ce85301/tass/m2/uploads/i/20160711/4288778.jpg

As for your paragraph 3, my understanding is that according to Taylor or some other WADA person, the issues with test results are up to the end of 2015, so again I am not sure what your indignation is about.

And in para 4, why would you care about that? You're not Russian, you only parrot the state line...
That would be my biggest question - has he ever been to Russia, does he even hold a Russian passport?
 
Do you have a source that he is a 'convicted criminal'?

Looks more like a highly valued expert in his field (even decorated by his country's authorities) who should have no problems gaining entry into other countries

https://phototass1.cdnvideo.ru/width/1200_4ce85301/tass/m2/uploads/i/20160711/4288778.jpg

As for your paragraph 3, my understanding is that according to Taylor or some other WADA person, the issues with test results are up to the end of 2015, so again I am not sure what your indignation is about.

And in para 4, why would you care about that? You're not Russian, you only parrot the state line...
I care because I am not a fan of discrimination. I don't care who it's against. Criminals exchanging clean samples with dirty samples to get at their employers and tarnish athletes that were never involved with any doping (prior or since) I have a problem with. It's the US authorities that are parroting.
 
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From the same article, the last bit: "Since January 2016, Grigory Rodchenkov has been residing in the United States. Two criminal cases were launched against him in Russia, he is indicted on counts of power abuse and illegal distribution of highly potent or toxic substances. The court arrested him in absentia." The guy is shady as best.

Notice how the US hails him as a hero for 'spilling the beans,' and they vilify Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden. Rodchenkov worked in that field for 30 years, then all of a sudden decided to talk because he wasn't happy with what he was getting in return. He then manipulated tests and fled the country. All of a sudden he is a 'anti-doping hero' who should be lauded.

Snowden was 28, had worked within the intelligence community for only a few months when he saw the corruption, the spying, the targeting of civilians, etc and had the honesty and morals to spill the beans right away, because he was sickened what he saw. Likewise Chelsea Manning, but in the US they are looked upon as traitors.

If Rodchenkov was/is so concerned about 'fair play' and 'anti-doping,' why did it take him 30 years to speak out? If the problem was there all along, why didn't he, in good conscience, do something about it earlier?

I have far more respect for 'leakers' like Manning and Snowden than a shady, confirmed criminal Rodchenkov who wants to get paid and get a visa (I am assuming it didn't take long for him to get one in the US.). Manning and Snowden came out right away and said 'wait a minute, what's happening here is wrong and I want the public to know,' Rodchenkov was part of the problem for a long time and had no problem in going beyond his duties and became a criminal. The whole country is in danger of being blanket banned because he had a beef with his employers and he wants to destroy the prospects of a lot of athletes that had nothing to do with him. How anyone defends the guy is beyond me.
 
I care because I am not a fan of discrimination. I don't care who it's against. Criminals exchanging clean samples with dirty samples to get at their employers and tarnish athletes that were never involved with any doping (prior or since) I have a problem with. It's the US authorities that are parroting.
***. Anyone who has been reading the board long enough knows which side you have taken.

'Rodchenkov changed the DB'

squawk

'Rodchenkov switched the samples'

squawk

'there's no evidence'

squawk

'WADA is not independent'

squawk

'WADA is discriminatory '

squawk

Smearing Rodchenkov at every opportunity - even though the accounts from people who actually know him paint a different picture

squawk

etc, etc, etc

And don't look at WADA, look at the mirror first. It's people like you who are always prepared to cast doubt on any actions (or persons) that are critical of your beloved Russia that played a part in getting them into this mess. Without people already in place to play the victim/political bias card, attack the opponents, ignore the evidence and engage in the tried and tested Soviet whataboutism, those who made decisions to do something shady maybe would have thought twice how those actions would be perceived.
 
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From the same article, the last bit: "Since January 2016, Grigory Rodchenkov has been residing in the United States. Two criminal cases were launched against him in Russia, he is indicted on counts of power abuse and illegal distribution of highly potent or toxic substances. The court arrested him in absentia." The guy is shady as best.

Notice how the US hails him as a hero for 'spilling the beans,' and they vilify Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden. Rodchenkov worked in that field for 30 years, then all of a sudden decided to talk because he wasn't happy with what he was getting in return. He then manipulated tests and fled the country. All of a sudden he is a 'anti-doping hero' who should be lauded.

Snowden was 28, had worked within the intelligence community for only a few months when he saw the corruption, the spying, the targeting of civilians, etc and had the honesty and morals to spill the beans right away, because he was sickened what he saw. Likewise Chelsea Manning, but in the US they are looked upon as traitors.

If Rodchenkov was/is so concerned about 'fair play' and 'anti-doping,' why did it take him 30 years to speak out? If the problem was there all along, why didn't he, in good conscience, do something about it earlier?

I have far more respect for 'leakers' like Manning and Snowden than a shady, confirmed criminal Rodchenkov who wants to get paid and get a visa (I am assuming it didn't take long for him to get one in the US.). Manning and Snowden came out right away and said 'wait a minute, what's happening here is wrong and I want the public to know,' Rodchenkov was part of the problem for a long time and had no problem in going beyond his duties and became a criminal. The whole country is in danger of being blanket banned because he had a beef with his employers and he wants to destroy the prospects of a lot of athletes that had nothing to do with him. How anyone defends the guy is beyond me.
Boring.

I am not aware of anyone 'defending' him here.

If you have a problem with anyone hailing hims as a hero - take it up with them instead of clattering up the thread with another one of your 'hey, look over here' posts.
 
Italy #1, France #2, US #3, Russia at #5. Russia gets suspended. Hypocrites like Travis Tygart want every Russian athlete to be suspended for 4 years.

 
If you have evidence that USADA/US authorities are covering up doping by Americans you should contact WADA.

Otherwise it's more of the same.
First of all, it wouldn't do any good. As I've mentioned before, Tygart is a hypocrite, he gives out TUE's like candy on thanksgiving and athletes like Christian Coleman are allowed to miss three doping tests in a year.

But here you go:











Shall I go on?

And what do you think about WADA's report on anti-doping violations from 2017? Care to chime in? Look at the number of violations, Italy has more than twice as many violations than Russia, France at 46 more than Russia and the US, the always playing it fair US, has 21 more.
 
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First of all, it wouldn't do any good. As I've mentioned before, Tygart is a hypocrite, he gives out TUE's like candy on thanksgiving and athletes like Christian Coleman are allowed to miss three doping tests in a year.

But here you go:











Shall I go on?

And what do you think about WADA's report on anti-doping violations from 2017? Care to chime in? Look at the number of violations, Italy has more than twice as many violations than Russia, France at 46 more than Russia and the US, the always playing it fair US, has 21 more.

The governing bodies, both international and national, are and always have been as corrupt as the world's worst politicians. The autonomy with with they function will allow it to continue perpetually.
 
First of all, it wouldn't do any good. As I've mentioned before, Tygart is a hypocrite, he gives out TUE's like candy on thanksgiving and athletes like Christian Coleman are allowed to miss three doping tests in a year.

But here you go:











Shall I go on?

And what do you think about WADA's report on anti-doping violations from 2017? Care to chime in? Look at the number of violations, Italy has more than twice as many violations than Russia, France at 46 more than Russia and the US, the always playing it fair US, has 21 more.
Evidently you have a different standard of evidence when it comes to USA and Russia.

But that's nothing new.

And I also asked about USADA and the best you can do is Coleman which was indeed suspect (seems extremely convenient that the testing procedure was initiated 1 minute outside the designated testing window) and something about TUE's without any actual numbers.

Not really much compared to 100+ cases of doping potentially being covered up.

So, yes, do go on. Or maybe don't as it is not the thread for it, regardless of how much you want to make it so,

And your next talking point is really not worth discussing in this thread, period. Try reading more of the WADA website and not only the stuff your handlers send you.
 
Evidently you have a different standard of evidence when it comes to USA and Russia.

But that's nothing new.

And I also asked about USADA and the best you can do is Coleman which was indeed suspect (seems extremely convenient that the testing procedure was initiated 1 minute outside the designated testing window) and something about TUE's without any actual numbers.

Not really much compared to 100+ cases of doping potentially being covered up.

So, yes, do go on. Or maybe don't as it is not the thread for it, regardless of how much you want to make it so,

And your next talking point is really not worth discussing in this thread, period. Try reading more of the WADA website and not only the stuff your handlers send you.
My 'handlers' eh? Wow, you are really reaching, aren't you? I specifically shared a number of links where it specifically talks about the US covering up hundreds of doping positives over a long period of time and not being punished for it. The USOC own anti-doping chief at the time was the one that handed over files and accusations, not Russians. I shared those articles because it shows a clear double standard by WADA and the IOC. You talk about the alleged coverups by the Russians, yet you say nothing about the allegations of the Americans. Likewise, you gave nothing in regards to the WADA figures from 2017. The link goes straight to WADA's website, not a Russian site or another site written by a Russian or some 'handler.'

If you are going to just make ad hominem attacks and insinuate that I am Russian simply because I am not going by the 2019 narrative then there's really no point in discussing/debating anything with you.
 
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