Weight Weenies on here

[ray j willings]

I'm well into getting my bikes as crazy light as possible. Any other WW's on here want to chat about crazy light bike parts. self made or bought or any ideas to make parts lighter?

I have pretty good knowledge about this stuff and be happy to share what I know.

 

[42x16ss]

I'm well into getting my bikes as crazy light as possible. Any other WW's on here want to chat about crazy light bike parts. self made or bought or any ideas to make parts lighter?

I have pretty good knowledge about this stuff and be happy to share what I know.

Only if I can get someone else to settle my account at the LBS...

 

[Master50]

ciamillo brakes, Lightweight wheels, lots of stuff from AX lightness.
I only have the brakes and prefer useful parts that are light. I would love a pair of lightweight wheels and they could remove nearly a pound. Super record cranks if I ever have to replace mine but as light as you can get a bike the less money you have and for little performance gain.
Trek Emoda in its lightest configuration is a great start but you got what is it, 16K?

 

[ray j willings]

ciamillo brakes, Lightweight wheels, lots of stuff from AX lightness.
I only have the brakes and prefer useful parts that are light. I would love a pair of lightweight wheels and they could remove nearly a pound. Super record cranks if I ever have to replace mine but as light as you can get a bike the less money you have and for little performance gain.
Trek Emoda in its lightest configuration is a great start but you got what is it, 16K?

It depends how smart you are. I picked up a derailleur "Sram Red" for 20 pounds. I tuned it down to under 90grms. I made some carbon cages for my sram red mechs and fitted them on. Their are lots of things you can do without spending lots of money and without taking laxatives

 

[simo1733]

It depends how smart you are. I picked up a derailleur "Sram Red" for 20 pounds. I tuned it down to under 90grms. I made some carbon cages for my sram red mechs and fitted them on. Their are lots of things you can do without spending lots of money and without taking laxatives [/QUOTE

I would go for the laxatives before the SRAM Red.

 

[ray j willings]

It depends how smart you are. I picked up a derailleur "Sram Red" for 20 pounds. I tuned it down to under 90grms. I made some carbon cages for my sram red mechs and fitted them on. Their are lots of things you can do without spending lots of money and without taking laxatives [/QUOTE

I would go for the laxatives before the SRAM Red.

I have used Sram red for years. Carbon jockey wheels nylon and light alloy bolts and it works as well as shimano or cam"click"py.
its easy to get super light.
A few bad photos
https://www.flickr.com/photos/69097995@N04/

I ended up shaving all the titanium out of the rear cage of the front mech.

 

[avanti]

..................... I made some carbon cages for my sram red mechs and fitted them on.

Where do you get your carbon material? I need a small amount to reinforce a frame. Suppliers I've found are expensive since they have minimum buy quantities.

 

[ray j willings]

Where do you get your carbon material? I need a small amount to reinforce a frame. Suppliers I've found are expensive since they have minimum buy quantities.

You could try here http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/Carbon-Fibre-Sheet.aspx

also I use ebay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_nkw=real+carbon+fibre+sheet&_frs=1

 

[Wallace]

When I worked in a bike shop in the 90s, most of the guys who came in worrying about grams on their bikes had bellies and big bank accounts. Back then the prevailing wisdom was "a pound on your body=five pounds on your bike" (I don't know where this particular piece of "science" came from, but we all accepted it as a proven fact, being skinny racers working in a bike store). At the time "weight weenies" were definitely kind of a bad joke in the bicycle retail world. If you wanted to climb better, we said, train more, train more and get lighter wheels. That was pretty much it. Certainly sacrificing strength for weight or compromising the integrity of a component seemed like a bad idea and kind of a pointless waste of time (the skinny 5'2" guy was gonna beat you on the climb, no matter how many titanium bolts you'd retrofitted). But now that I'm older and training for ultra-marathon events, some of those lightweight things look kind of tempting, especially things like titanium cassettes, although the quality issue prevents me from chunking down the cash on to make that kind of an experiment/gamble. I know what kind of quality Campagnolo has.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I've never gotten into the weight weenie thing. The bikes I ride, mostly Time, aren't the lightest, but I've become accustomed to that ride quality, and I just don't want to give it up for the sake of lighter weight.

Plus, I'm not a huge fan of carbon wheels, other than the fact they look "cool".

However, I'm as wowed as anyone when I see a 12 pound bike.

 

[veganrob]

I've never gotten into the weight weenie thing. The bikes I ride, mostly Time, aren't the lightest, but I've become accustomed to that ride quality, and I just don't want to give it up for the sake of lighter weight.

Plus, I'm not a huge fan of carbon wheels, other than the fact they look "cool".

However, I'm as wowed as anyone when I see a 12 pound bike.

2013 Time ZXRS, Record. I don't care about a few extra ounces either when the ride is that great. Love it.

 

[ray j willings]

When I worked in a bike shop in the 90s, most of the guys who came in worrying about grams on their bikes had bellies and big bank accounts. Back then the prevailing wisdom was "a pound on your body=five pounds on your bike" (I don't know where this particular piece of "science" came from, but we all accepted it as a proven fact, being skinny racers working in a bike store). At the time "weight weenies" were definitely kind of a bad joke in the bicycle retail world. If you wanted to climb better, we said, train more, train more and get lighter wheels. That was pretty much it. Certainly sacrificing strength for weight or compromising the integrity of a component seemed like a bad idea and kind of a pointless waste of time (the skinny 5'2" guy was gonna beat you on the climb, no matter how many titanium bolts you'd retrofitted). But now that I'm older and training for ultra-marathon events, some of those lightweight things look kind of tempting, especially things like titanium cassettes, although the quality issue prevents me from chunking down the cash on to make that kind of an experiment/gamble. I know what kind of quality Campagnolo has.

For me having a light bike is not just about the climbing. IMO they react/sensitive feel quicker. I don't think Carbon parts fail any more than any other parts. They are tested to be safe and weight limits applied if needed. I agree that they do not have that solid/heavy feel but that's preference.

Most of the top end cassettes use titanium. I have just got an alloy recon 105grms 11x27. I don't shift down on to my 39/40 so it lasts a bit longer.
They are not to expensive. I got mine from asia for ?60.

You can get YBN Ti Chain which is the lightest in the world 210 grms .
But I am not sure of the wear and tear and If Its worth the price over ?100.
I go for the ybn self lube which is a bit heavier . 220/230grms "link count depending" You can get them on Ebay for under ?30. I hardly use any chain lube. None most of the time.

I just ride hand made "alloy rims" clinchers. 1 set weigh 1182 grms pair. The other set are about the same but with a higher spoke count 20x24. I am not keen on carbon rims and weight wise I can't really do much better going carbon unless I switched to tubs. Then I would have to carry a spare tyre around with me so it's not worth the inconvenience.

 

[Master50]

When I raced i was 165 pounds and a pitiful climber. my bike weighed 23 pounds. by the early 00s I was 185 pounds and my bike was 18 pounds. I climbed even worse. I started to pay attention to my weight and am 165 pounds again and the bike is 16 1/2 pounds. I still climb poorly. I think my strength improved when I was fatter or in other words my strength seemed to partly compensate for the weight but as the weight came off so did some of the strength. It might show me that I should have some focused training but I am getting much to old to care about training. I just like to ride my bike. On the group rides the climbs are short and I know the shortcuts. It is nice however to not drag around that 20 pounds. the 16 1/2 pound bike definitely feels great compared to that old Marinoni at 23 pounds but the weight did not matter as much as I thought it would.

 

[dougvdh]

Probably the best place to drop weight is to look at eliminating redundant parts. Just off hand: tonsils, appendix, at least one finger on each hand and one toe, and most of the ear lobe come to mind. If you're really looking to save grams, there are also a number of parts that come in duplicates and have virtually not impact of bike riding - dropping one of each could also save some weight: testicles, kidneys.

If you're in a publicly funded healthcare country like me, you might be able to fake it to get rid of the appendix at no cost, maybe even the tonsils. If you travel to a developing country, you can probably sell the kidney to pay for lighter bike parts. Fingers and toes are easily done by 'accidental' methods.

Personally, I don't think the extra .5lb on my race bike has cost me any victories, and my favourite Sunday afternoon bike is a 25 year old Colnago Master, so weight obviously isn't a big concern.

 

[Wallace]

Probably the best place to drop weight is to look at eliminating redundant parts. Just off hand: tonsils, appendix, at least one finger on each hand and one toe, and most of the ear lobe come to mind. If you're really looking to save grams, there are also a number of parts that come in duplicates and have virtually not impact of bike riding - dropping one of each could also save some weight: testicles, kidneys.

If you're in a publicly funded healthcare country like me, you might be able to fake it to get rid of the appendix at no cost, maybe even the tonsils. If you travel to a developing country, you can probably sell the kidney to pay for lighter bike parts. Fingers and toes are easily done by 'accidental' methods.

Personally, I don't think the extra .5lb on my race bike has cost me any victories, and my favourite Sunday afternoon bike is a 25 year old Colnago Master, so weight obviously isn't a big concern.

Although you're on the right track here with the importance of surgery, your approach after that is completely unscientific and random. Bone weight and density are higher than muscle weight and density, which is why the best climbers in the world are always little guys: they just naturally have a better strength to weight ratio. So if you want to climb better, the most important thing is not to lose weight, but to lose height. So instead of random organs and digits, you need to get a surgeon to remove a few inches of tibia and shin and two or three vertebrae and then a plastic surgeon to remove the extra skin.

 

[twothirds]

For me having a light bike is not just about the climbing. IMO they react/sensitive feel quicker..

You should ride my BT. That thing is the stiffest, quickest responding bike that I, and most the borrow it, have ever ridden. 24lbs with race wheels. The feel is independant of weight. It's about the engineering. When you pare something down to the minimum, then you have to engineer a certain amount of stiffness into the the object to compensate for the fact that there isn't as much material to deal with the fatigue stresses. Sure lighter objects have a lower moment of intertia, but feel isn't fact, and fact trumps feel when it comes to performance.

Why can't weight weenies just come out and say it instead of trying to find half truths to justify why they do it. It's a fetish. Plain and simple.

 

[King Boonen]

does this count as being a weight weenie?

Got rid of all those pesky extra gears and it's the lightest bike I own!

 

[ray j willings]

You should ride my BT. That thing is the stiffest, quickest responding bike that I, and most the borrow it, have ever ridden. 24lbs with race wheels. The feel is independant of weight. It's about the engineering. When you pare something down to the minimum, then you have to engineer a certain amount of stiffness into the the object to compensate for the fact that there isn't as much material to deal with the fatigue stresses.

Sure lighter objects have a lower moment of intertia, but feel isn't fact, and fact trumps feel when it comes to performance.

Why can't weight weenies just come out and say it instead of trying to find half truths to justify why they do it. It's a fetish. Plain and simple.

Good post I just don't agree with you. Look at pro level racing ,you don't see any one riding a 24lb bike? No pro team is adding weight to go faster.

My Photon Guru descends as stable and as safe as any steel bike I have descended on. The advancement in materials really makes a difference.
If you want to believe your 24lb bike handles better than a modern lightweight bike then you really are just kidding yourself.

I used to ride a caad 5 cannondale "first road bike"
When I rode my first light weight carbon bike I found the way it handles way better. Both my bikes together are way lighter than yours. I don't know if I have the leg power to make your bike move
For me making my bike lighter is a hobby. A fetish makes it sound a bit 50
shades of grey

To each their own ,,,,Cheers

 

[ray j willings]

does this count as being a weight weenie?

Got rid of all those pesky extra gears and it's the lightest bike I own!

That is a sweet bike. Really classy. Nice simple colours, very tasteful.

Thumbs up.

 

[King Boonen]

Thanks Ray, I'm really enjoying riding it Had to flip the stem so cables need trimming and it's probably still a little high so will be testing it lower. The gear is a bit short at 66 inch but at least I can get up some steeper hills on it around me. I'd guess it's probably a kilogram or so lighter than my road bike (9.46kgs) maybe more and it handles just as well.


Today I did 102 km in horrible winds, rain, hail and sun on my steel road bike. When I say horrible I mean it, -10kph on some roads to what I would usually do!

I did find myself wondering how I would go on something lighter...

 

[ray j willings]

Thanks Ray, I'm really enjoying riding it Had to flip the stem so cables need trimming and it's probably still a little high so will be testing it lower. The gear is a bit short at 66 inch but at least I can get up some steeper hills on it around me. I'd guess it's probably a kilogram or so lighter than my road bike (9.46kgs) maybe more and it handles just as well.


Today I did 102 km in horrible winds, rain, hail and sun on my steel road bike. When I say horrible I mean it, -10kph on some roads to what I would usually do!

I did find myself wondering how I would go on something lighter...

The weather/wind as been awful. I went out 3 times last week in nasty winds.
I always try and get in a wind mind-set. Just make sure I can spin ok and not get into a battle with the wind. Most of my riding is in London so I tend to ride around Highgate way and make some good climbing routes for 1 -2 hours. When the weather is a nicer I head out a bit more St Albans direction.
I do go out with a friend who is into the 70-100 mile rides. Its Ok if its a nice day but to be honest riding flat stuff for to long a time I get a bit bored.
If the views are great i.e. Im in France etc then no problem but it's hard to get excited about flat green and grey stuff.

if I was going to build another WW bike I think I would see if I could pick up an old addict r1 "740grms" or an old Cervelo r3sl. They are really nice frames and as far as i'm aware not built in Asia.
You pay a lot more for a Cervelo rca because it's built in house rather than Asia. It as much more of a quality feel and less of a production line feel.

 

[King Boonen]

My usual training roads:

http://www.mapometer.com/cycling/route_3778646.html

So as you can see pretty far from flat! If I go elsewhere it tends to look the same.


The winds from the west round here can be really horrible, I try and do similar to yourself and just get in a comfortable gear and ride. It helps not to look at your speed and think what it could be on a calm day.

I like long rides, I much prefer to do 1-2 hours on a turbo and batter my legs and use my time on the roads to put 4-6 hours in enjoying being outside.

I'd have to get rid of my current bike to have a lighter one, no space and no money. You never know, I might do it, but the drawbacks of carbon put me off.

 

[ray j willings]

Scotland ,,,brilliant. I have been going to the north west, near Gairloch for the last 10 years. Its not the sort of riding a novice would enjoy. Lots of climbing and some really steep punchy stuff. Stunning views though. I use it as a guide to how well I'm riding. Fantastic.

I would hang on to your bike. That's a classic.
I think issues with bikes is more about components and set up rather than the material of the frame. Its just getting things to work and be hassle free-
that's the dream

 

[Jspear]

ray J willings; these bikes that you build/have others build (whatever the case is ) do they end up being more or less expensive than say a carbon bike from Trek?

 

[twothirds]

Good post I just don't agree with you. Look at pro level racing ,you don't see any one riding a 24lb bike? No pro team is adding weight to go faster.

My Photon Guru descends as stable and as safe as any steel bike I have descended on. The advancement in materials really makes a difference.
If you want to believe your 24lb bike handles better than a modern lightweight bike then you really are just kidding yourself.

I used to ride a caad 5 cannondale "first road bike"
When I rode my first light weight carbon bike I found the way it handles way better. Both my bikes together are way lighter than yours. I don't know if I have the leg power to make your bike move
For me making my bike lighter is a hobby. A fetish makes it sound a bit 50
shades of grey

To each their own ,,,,Cheers

The BT is a modern carbon track bike, not a steel bike. Many of the high end carbon track bikes are heavier than road bikes because power transfer and handling are more important than weight saving (at least for the sprinters). I was using it as an example to illustrate the point of engineering involved in how a bike handles and reacts. Handling and reaction are a function of geometry and stiffness. That your Guru (which is a fine bike, very familiar with them, and have seen them constructed in their Montreal shop) handled better than the C-dale is due to geometry and stiffness. To get something as light and lustworthy as the Photon, you are at the absolute limits of the technology available in the construction of the frame. If I were to purchase an identical frame to yours, but found the stiffness or steering response lacking, the only workaround at that point is to add material back into the equation, thereby increasing the weight. The feel of reaction/sensitivity you mention is both subjective and relative. I can say without a doubt that the BT is more sensitive to steering input and force input than the Guru and that is because of simple physics. Stiffness, rigidity, and responsiveness without a care to weight will always respond better. The reason Pro Road Racers are on light bikes is because weight matters in the long run, so a compromise between stiffness, compliance, and handling has to be reached. In the case of a high end carbon track bike, there are no compromises made in the handling and stiffness department. That can't be said for an ultralight road bike.

The light weight thing is a hobby, but every gram conscious cyclist I've met has had an eerie obsession with paying hundreds, if not thousands of dollars to eliminate grams from the bike. It ends up trumping all other aspects of the bike in these cases. And alluding to the points I made above, in my opinion, it supercedes performance improvement because paring weight away in the name of weight loss leads to compromises everywhere else. If it floats your boat, cool, but I see it as wholly impractical. I'd rather lose weight where it matters, and keep it where it matters.

(I'd hate to pedal the BT up a col, 24lbs and fixed gear would suck. With a freewheel on the back it would descend like a rocket tho. At 220lbs I'm good at descending. Maybe you can lend me your Photon for the ride up and I'll swap at the top).