Weight Weenies on here

[Master50]

does this count as being a weight weenie?

Got rid of all those pesky extra gears and it's the lightest bike I own!

It has 2 brakes and those pedals are not carbon. in fact that frame is hardly light. not a winner.

 

[Wallace]

Good post I just don't agree with you. Look at pro level racing ,you don't see any one riding a 24lb bike? No pro team is adding weight to go faster.

My Photon Guru descends as stable and as safe as any steel bike I have descended on. The advancement in materials really makes a difference.
If you want to believe your 24lb bike handles better than a modern lightweight bike then you really are just kidding yourself.

I used to ride a caad 5 cannondale "first road bike"
When I rode my first light weight carbon bike I found the way it handles way better. Both my bikes together are way lighter than yours. I don't know if I have the leg power to make your bike move
For me making my bike lighter is a hobby. A fetish makes it sound a bit 50
shades of grey

To each their own ,,,,Cheers

I know someone who crashed a Guru Photon in a race and the frame pretty much broke in half--doesn't really inspire confidence. As for "feel"--the worst bike I ever rode was a friend's Merlin Extralight--the ride was so stiff it made going over paint lines feel like crashing into a curb. Dampening, compliance, stiff but not too stiff, responsiveness--these are all the subjective things that account for a bike's feel, along with weight. It doesn't matter if the thing weighs two pounds total: a bike that's too stiff or too noodly is not going to ride well. The nicest bike I've ridden lately is a IF stainless steel--probably about three pounds heavier than my Ridley Helium, but god it felt great. If I could afford another bike now, that's the one I'd get (and built up it was probably in the 18lb range).

 

[ray j willings]

ray J willings; these bikes that you build/have others build (whatever the case is ) do they end up being more or less expensive than say a carbon bike from Trek?

Obviously it depends what components you have on your Trek. But most times you are paying way more for a pre built bike than if you bought the components separately.

My Trek is way cheaper, my Guru not so much, but still a way ahead of a fully loaded electronic shifting racing bike.
A new dogma is 10,000 pounds
My Guru frame cost 5000 pounds but there is no way I will spend another 4 or 5 grand on parts. I don't need to. I picked up a brand new cannondale sisl crank for 250 pounds because the guy switched out his brand new bike to Di2.
I know what crank I would rather have the sisl is IMO the best crank on the market.

 

[ray j willings]

The BT is a modern carbon track bike, not a steel bike. Many of the high end carbon track bikes are heavier than road bikes because power transfer and handling are more important than weight saving (at least for the sprinters). I was using it as an example to illustrate the point of engineering involved in how a bike handles and reacts. Handling and reaction are a function of geometry and stiffness. That your Guru (which is a fine bike, very familiar with them, and have seen them constructed in their Montreal shop) handled better than the C-dale is due to geometry and stiffness. To get something as light and lustworthy as the Photon, you are at the absolute limits of the technology available in the construction of the frame. If I were to purchase an identical frame to yours, but found the stiffness or steering response lacking, the only workaround at that point is to add material back into the equation, thereby increasing the weight. The feel of reaction/sensitivity you mention is both subjective and relative. I can say without a doubt that the BT is more sensitive to steering input and force input than the Guru and that is because of simple physics. Stiffness, rigidity, and responsiveness without a care to weight will always respond better. The reason Pro Road Racers are on light bikes is because weight matters in the long run, so a compromise between stiffness, compliance, and handling has to be reached. In the case of a high end carbon track bike, there are no compromises made in the handling and stiffness department. That can't be said for an ultralight road bike.

The light weight thing is a hobby, but every gram conscious cyclist I've met has had an eerie obsession with paying hundreds, if not thousands of dollars to eliminate grams from the bike. It ends up trumping all other aspects of the bike in these cases. And alluding to the points I made above, in my opinion, it supercedes performance improvement because paring weight away in the name of weight loss leads to compromises everywhere else. If it floats your boat, cool, but I see it as wholly impractical. I'd rather lose weight where it matters, and keep it where it matters.

(I'd hate to pedal the BT up a col, 24lbs and fixed gear would suck. With a freewheel on the back it would descend like a rocket tho. At 220lbs I'm good at descending. Maybe you can lend me your Photon for the ride up and I'll swap at the top).

Nice post ,thumbs up.
I think a lot of stiffness can come from the components. I know sprinters don't like carbon stems or bars. I can't try and defeat what you are saying because I agree with most of it.

You really don't have to spend thousands to get the weight down.
If you have minor skills with a dremel and can make a few carbon bits yourself "its not that hard" you can get components way lighter than anything you can buy.
I have Ax lightness orions "old ones are lighter" brakes and that's about the biggest expense for a part on my bikes.

"I'd hate to pedal the BT up a col, 24lbs and fixed gear would suck. With a freewheel on the back it would descend like a rocket tho. At 220lbs I'm good at descending. Maybe you can lend me your Photon for the ride up and I'll swap at the top" that's the dream

 

[ray j willings]

I know someone who crashed a Guru Photon in a race and the frame pretty much broke in half--doesn't really inspire confidence. As for "feel"--the worst bike I ever rode was a friend's Merlin Extralight--the ride was so stiff it made going over paint lines feel like crashing into a curb. Dampening, compliance, stiff but not too stiff, responsiveness--these are all the subjective things that account for a bike's feel, along with weight. It doesn't matter if the thing weighs two pounds total: a bike that's too stiff or too noodly is not going to ride well. The nicest bike I've ridden lately is a IF stainless steel--probably about three pounds heavier than my Ridley Helium, but god it felt great. If I could afford another bike now, that's the one I'd get (and built up it was probably in the 18lb range).

Just hope I don't crash
Here's a photo of a 5 pound steel frame crashed.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2206/2441147433_9b869cf076.jpg


I hope you get that bike ,,,,,,,,,,,cheers

 

[King Boonen]

Scotland ,,,brilliant. I have been going to the north west, near Gairloch for the last 10 years. Its not the sort of riding a novice would enjoy. Lots of climbing and some really steep punchy stuff. Stunning views though. I use it as a guide to how well I'm riding. Fantastic.

I would hang on to your bike. That's a classic.
I think issues with bikes is more about components and set up rather than the material of the frame. Its just getting things to work and be hassle free-
that's the dream

I'm planning to head up North this summer, really looking forward to it. I've been told the road into Applecross is great but I really want to head out to the Islands and even further North, possibly up to Caithness.

The Volare will stay. I've considered getting a touring frame and then just break down and build up whatever bike I fancy taking, but in reality I can get an old tourer with racks and a triple for long tours probably as cheaply as getting a frame made.

The LeMond will also stay, lovely bike, just needs a bigger gear...

It has 2 brakes and those pedals are not carbon. in fact that frame is hardly light. not a winner.

I was joking though... I've got carbon pedals to go on it if I want to, but I'll probably just use the old alloy SPD-SLs I have as emergencies Will stick with flats for the majority of the time though.

 

[ray j willings]

I'm planning to head up North this summer, really looking forward to it. I've been told the road into Applecross is great but I really want to head out to the Islands and even further North, possibly up to Caithness.

The Volare will stay. I've considered getting a touring frame and then just break down and build up whatever bike I fancy taking, but in reality I can get an old tourer with racks and a triple for long tours probably as cheaply as getting a frame made.

The LeMond will also stay, lovely bike, just needs a bigger gear...



I was joking though... I've got carbon pedals to go on it if I want to, but I'll probably just use the old alloy SPD-SLs I have as emergencies Will stick with flats for the majority of the time though.

I have never been up Applecross , Its a Scottish cycling monument.
I ride out from where I stay and just follow the costal ride which takes in a few decently steep mountain climbs and loads of short steep climbs.
Applecross is a must.


Nice One

 

[twothirds]

Nice post ,thumbs up.
I think a lot of stiffness can come from the components. I know sprinters don't like carbon stems or bars. I can't try and defeat what you are saying because I agree with most of it.

That's changing too. Most of the bars that elite sprinters are using are carbon now. It allows for much stiffer bars (by way of lots of material), one piece bar/stem combos (stiffer yet), and shaping for aerodynamics.

You really don't have to spend thousands to get the weight down.
If you have minor skills with a dremel and can make a few carbon bits yourself "its not that hard" you can get components way lighter than anything you can buy.
I have Ax lightness orions "old ones are lighter" brakes and that's about the biggest expense for a part on my bikes.

Curious to know what sort of projects you've made for yourself with the dremel. I build/make things to suit my needs quite often, so it would be interesting to see what someone else has made for themselves.

 

[simo1733]

I think you need to proceed with caution if you want to make. Carbon parts youself unless they are non structural.
I did manage to make a TT helmet myself.It was pretty light and looked aero.Don't ask me about crash protection or ventilation though.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Good post I just don't agree with you. Look at pro level racing ,you don't see any one riding a 24lb bike? No pro team is adding weight to go faster.

My Photon Guru descends as stable and as safe as any steel bike I have descended on. The advancement in materials really makes a difference.
If you want to believe your 24lb bike handles better than a modern lightweight bike then you really are just kidding yourself.

I used to ride a caad 5 cannondale "first road bike"
When I rode my first light weight carbon bike I found the way it handles way better. Both my bikes together are way lighter than yours. I don't know if I have the leg power to make your bike move
For me making my bike lighter is a hobby. A fetish makes it sound a bit 50
shades of grey

To each their own ,,,,Cheers

Win on sunday, sell on monday. Only 2 things you can 'measure' in a bike shop is weight and price. So....light? Expensive? Ridden by 'pros'? Sold...

The point is they paint up a carbon trekspecializedgiantcannondale to look like a pro bike, the customer does the 'weight' test', ya know, lift it up a few inches, and then is sold, even tho the bike weighs 18 pounds or more with those pesky things like pedals and a pump and spare tube and...water(8 pounds per gallon). AND the vast majority of riders could lose more than a 'SBW", Standard Bike Weight'-20 pounds, off their body. It's marketing.

If ya want to weight weenie a bike as a hobby, awhy not? But to think that just less weight makes a bike 'handle better', that's not accurate.

 

[simo1733]

Win on sunday, sell on monday. Only 2 things you can 'measure' in a bike shop is weight and price. So....light? Expensive? Ridden by 'pros'? Sold...

The point is they paint up a carbon trekspecializedgiantcannondale to look like a pro bike, the customer does the 'weight' test', ya know, lift it up a few inches, and then is sold, even tho the bike weighs 18 pounds or more with those pesky things like pedals and a pump and spare tube and...water(8 pounds per gallon). AND the vast majority of riders could lose more than a 'SBW", Standard Bike Weight'-20 pounds, off their body. It's marketing.

If ya want to weight weenie a bike as a hobby, awhy not? But to think that just less weight makes a bike 'handle better', that's not accurate.

I once did a lab test with a racing friend of mine.Our power at threshold was almost identical, but he weighed 20lb more than I did.The technician said to him "Imagine trying to race against him with an extra bike strapped to your back"
That was about 20 years ago.I'm 5kg heavier and my bike is 2KG lighter.

 

[ray j willings]

Nice post ,thumbs up.
I think a lot of stiffness can come from the components. I know sprinters don't like carbon stems or bars. I can't try and defeat what you are saying because I agree with most of it.

That's changing too. Most of the bars that elite sprinters are using are carbon now. It allows for much stiffer bars (by way of lots of material), one piece bar/stem combos (stiffer yet), and shaping for aerodynamics.

You really don't have to spend thousands to get the weight down.
If you have minor skills with a dremel and can make a few carbon bits yourself "its not that hard" you can get components way lighter than anything you can buy.
I have Ax lightness orions "old ones are lighter" brakes and that's about the biggest expense for a part on my bikes.

Curious to know what sort of projects you've made for yourself with the dremel. I build/make things to suit my needs quite often, so it would be interesting to see what someone else has made for themselves.

I mostly use the dremel to shed weight off parts i.e. shifters front/rear mech's
. I also have made a few small parts carbon cages for mech's
handlebar ends etc. I use a lot of plastic and alloy bolts. Bigger jobs like my seatpost combo's or parts I want to make sure are safe I take to Ed at London carbon
http://londoncarbonrepairs.co.uk/

bad photo's of a couple of mechs I have tuned
The rear weighs 85grms . I have just made another one. I have made 3 front mechs with my own carbon cages.
Cutting titanium is not easy.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/69097995@N04/

 

[ray j willings]

Win on sunday, sell on monday. Only 2 things you can 'measure' in a bike shop is weight and price. So....light? Expensive? Ridden by 'pros'? Sold...

The point is they paint up a carbon trekspecializedgiantcannondale to look like a pro bike, the customer does the 'weight' test', ya know, lift it up a few inches, and then is sold, even tho the bike weighs 18 pounds or more with those pesky things like pedals and a pump and spare tube and...water(8 pounds per gallon). AND the vast majority of riders could lose more than a 'SBW", Standard Bike Weight'-20 pounds, off their body. It's marketing.

If ya want to weight weenie a bike as a hobby, awhy not? But to think that just less weight makes a bike 'handle better', that's not accurate.

I get my bikes to handle/ride the way I like them. Simple really.
Its not for everyone and I have never said that. I'm sure Tom Boonen and Bertie opt for very different components.
I weigh around 85kg depending how much iron I am pushing. Not much body fat. I did once as an experiment stop hitting the weights and lost nearly 2 stone and went over to France to see how my climbing compered. It was worse. I may have lost the weight to fast and lost power/strength although I was carful in my planning.

 

[ray j willings]

Here are some photos of my heavier bike ,,,,,hope you like
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131970499@N02/

 

[Master50]

the heat bike looks light but where is the Carbon Nokon Cables?

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

the heat bike looks light but where is the Carbon Nokon Cables?

I use old Tune outer Housing with outer casing removed. It is way lighter than Mini I links or anything else you could buy its just a few grms but also is very stiff which is good for shifting.
Very simple to set up as you don't need any liners. Just outer and cable. Minimum weight.

 

[Wallace]

Here are some photos of my heavier bike ,,,,,hope you like
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131970499@N02/

What kind of cassette is that?

 

[ray j willings]

Here are some photos of my heavier bike ,,,,,hope you like
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131970499@N02/

What kind of cassette is that?

Hi Wallace. Its a recon cassette. They are not that expensive but won't last as long as a "normal" cassette.
I always ride "climb" on my big ring so I tend to get them to last a wee bit longer. I will change again for the winter.

http://www.recon-harry.com.tw/

 

[Wallace]

Here are some photos of my heavier bike ,,,,,hope you like
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131970499@N02/

What kind of cassette is that?

Hi Wallace. Its a recon cassette. They are not that expensive but won't last as long as a "normal" cassette.
I always ride "climb" on my big ring so I tend to get them to last a wee bit longer. I will change again for the winter.

http://www.recon-harry.com.tw/

Hi Ray. Is it aluminum or titanium? I was thinking of getting one of their titanium cassettes for some climbing-intensive events (Campy ten speed: the Recon titanium is still cheaper than Record) but I'd like to know how it holds up. I've heard the aluminum cassettes are fragile and wear out super quick ("junk" is how I've heard them described).

 

[ray j willings]

Here are some photos of my heavier bike ,,,,,hope you like
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131970499@N02/

What kind of cassette is that?

Hi Wallace. Its a recon cassette. They are not that expensive but won't last as long as a "normal" cassette.
I always ride "climb" on my big ring so I tend to get them to last a wee bit longer. I will change again for the winter.



Hi Ray. Is it aluminum or titanium? I was thinking of getting one of their titanium cassettes for some climbing-intensive events (Campy ten speed: the Recon titanium is still cheaper than Record) but I'd like to know how it holds up. I've heard the aluminum cassettes are fragile and wear out super quick ("junk" is how I've heard them described).

The Ti ones should last as long as your record " same material"
You can get these super light Ti cassettes
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Super-light-1 ... 2c6dcff88c

I go for the alloy ones. They are cheaper and I know I will have to keep on top of things.
You can really hammer the alloy ones as well. 2 alloys would last around the same as a Ti cassette.
I get them straight from Taiwan at Cycle Taiwan .I think they are restocking but I picked my last one up for £60 , so it makes sense to go alloy.

 

[VeloFidelis]

Here are some photos of my heavier bike ,,,,,hope you like
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131970499@N02/

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/fitness/bike-fit/bike-fit-recommended-uk-locations-33069

 

[StryderHells]

Here are some photos of my heavier bike ,,,,,hope you like
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131970499@N02/

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/fitness/bike-fit/bike-fit-recommended-uk-locations-33069

What was the point of this? Ray might like his bike fit

 

[VeloFidelis]

Exactly!

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

Exactly!

I have been riding for years. My position is perfect for me.
Slammed stem and a nice amount of drop. It works for me just fine and has done for years. I have climbed/rode all over Europe and can climb and ride pretty dam good, all the people who I went past climbing up the Madone and Eze back in October could testify. "No one went past me"
You will find a lot of pros have a similar set up.
Below are some examples , Schleck. Ryder .Valverde among many pro's who ride a similar set up.
I don't know what your issue is with me. You could have asked about my set up but instead you make some childish innuendo.

 

[VeloFidelis]

Dude you're amazing! I've no doubt that you'd kick Ryder's ass too. Because, you know... at an average of 800km a week, like he, you've earned that position. And damn if it doesn't look really fast.