What beer ya drinkin'?

[Maaaaaaaarten]

A classic Trappist, one of my favourite beers. One of the few Belgian beers that traditionally had a strong hop flavour. As I said before, under the influence of the American beer culture nowadays a lot of Belgian breweries have varieties with extra hop, but this only started a few years ago, whereas Orval always had a fair amount of hop, despite the recipe dating from somewhere in the beginning of the 20th century.

Actually, I remember this guy being quite fresh, hoppy and fruity. But this time it was more sour, a kind of wine-like sourness that's quite rare in beers. So according to the internet a young Orval has a fruity taste whereas due to refermentation in the bottle, if you leave it for a month or five, it has a more sour taste. To be honest, despite this being one of my favourite beers, I never knew that. I've never had the patience to let it lie around for 5 months, and whenever I've had it in café's (the usually serve it too cold in café's, so I don't take it very often), it also wasn't like this. But apparently the place where I had it this time had it lying around for quite a bit. Which was nice, because the taste was very interesting and unexpected!

 

[kwikki]

Well I've had 4 or 5 over the course of the day. I had a sample case from one of the plethora of Internet startups offering 'craft' beer.

God how I loathe that term. Craft beer. So typically American. Over here it's just called 'beer'.

But, that is the only thing I don't like about it. Every single bottle has been amazing, unpasteurised, and sitting on its Lees, which is quite unusual. And here I must top my hat to the American brewing scene, because it seems that they've copied our IPA style bitters and innovated. All the beers I've had today have been British, but I'm learning that there is a strong American influence and I've got to say it's a bit of a revelation. It's not that I haven't had amazing traditional beers from UK brewers, but I'm stunned by the consistency of these bottles and the depth and clarity of flavours.

So far I've loved them all but Beavertown Neck Oil is my favourite.

 

[aphronesis]

I think I've never been unclear as to whether I've had 4 or 5 beers over a day. But then I'm not confused by new things. Anyhow, the "craft" designator, which goes back some 40 years, was meant to distinguish small batch beers, from corporate adjunct added swill like Budweiser, Miller etc. (or Carling and Fosters, Carlberg etc.). In the US context it was not simply a matter of scale reference, but of a retrieval of brewing methods pre-prohibition era largely as practiced by European immigrants--from all over--such that in the 19th century the US was potentially the most vibrant and diverse brewing country in the world. I.E. refining and hosting multiple traditions and styles that other monocultural nations could not. The term may seem moot when everyone has a crowdfunded brewery, but it did work in the 80s and 90s to relocate beer in the cultural and culinary landscape. A good many UK pubs still occupy that 70s abyss.

As discussed upthread, that revival has now backfed not just to the UK, but to Scandinavia, France and Italy among other places. Belgium entertains it, but has no need, to while Germany remains a bit unchanging (but very good) at a few clearly defined styles. And even there people are retrieving lost 19c Berlin mini-styles, etc.

Carry on.

 

[kwikki]

Re:

I think I've never been unclear as to whether I've had 4 or 5 beers over a day. But then I'm not confused by new things. Anyhow, the "craft" designator, which goes back some 40 years, was meant to distinguish small batch beers, from corporate adjunct added swill like Budweiser, Miller etc. (or Carling and Fosters, Carlberg etc.). In the US context it was not simply a matter of scale reference, but of a retrieval of brewing methods pre-prohibition era largely as practiced by European immigrants--from all over--such that in the 19th century the US was potentially the most vibrant and diverse brewing country in the world. I.E. refining and hosting multiple traditions and styles that other monocultural nations could not. The term may seem moot when everyone has a crowdfunded brewery, but it did work in the 80s and 90s to relocate beer in the cultural and culinary landscape. A good many UK pubs still occupy that 70s abyss.

As discussed upthread, that revival has now backfed not just to the UK, but to Scandinavia, France and Italy among other places. Belgium entertains it, but has no need, to while Germany remains a bit unchanging (but very good) at a few clearly defined styles. And even there people are retrieving lost 19c Berlin mini-styles, etc.

Carry on.

By all means talk about the US brewing scene, but please don't think that qualifies you to talk about the UK beer history, as there are gaping gaps in your knowledge. Listening to you reminds me of the American tourist I met in the late 80's who told me, with absolute certainty, that pizza was invented in Chicago

There has always been 'craft' beer available in large quantities. In the 70s, my home county, Dorset, had 5 breweries all of whom brewed excellent beer in a traditional manner. (Apart from Devenish...which was sh*t). Those breweries had been there since the 1800's. That's a lot of breweries for a low populated area of 900sq miles.

"That 70s abyss" in the UK was localised, and tastes changed towards lager beers due to people going on cheap holidays to Spain. There are very few pubs in that "70s abyss" and you'll mostly find them in Scotland. Wetherspoons, which is the archetypal get drunk for £5 pub chain always has a great selection of local beers.

The revival has not "backfed to the UK". There never was a revival, because nothing had died. What has happened is a steady return to widespread real ale drinking (see CAMRA in 1971) and an explosion of microbreweries in the last 5 years or so, punting their wares via the Internet. Where the US influence has come in is with choice of hops, malts and really a focus on strong bottled beers, but also the hipster style marketing.

IPA is what has driven the craft beer explosion in the US. You can thank us for that

You're welcome.

 

[aphronesis]

Re: Re:

I think I've never been unclear as to whether I've had 4 or 5 beers over a day. But then I'm not confused by new things. Anyhow, the "craft" designator, which goes back some 40 years, was meant to distinguish small batch beers, from corporate adjunct added swill like Budweiser, Miller etc. (or Carling and Fosters, Carlberg etc.). In the US context it was not simply a matter of scale reference, but of a retrieval of brewing methods pre-prohibition era largely as practiced by European immigrants--from all over--such that in the 19th century the US was potentially the most vibrant and diverse brewing country in the world. I.E. refining and hosting multiple traditions and styles that other monocultural nations could not. The term may seem moot when everyone has a crowdfunded brewery, but it did work in the 80s and 90s to relocate beer in the cultural and culinary landscape. A good many UK pubs still occupy that 70s abyss.

As discussed upthread, that revival has now backfed not just to the UK, but to Scandinavia, France and Italy among other places. Belgium entertains it, but has no need, to while Germany remains a bit unchanging (but very good) at a few clearly defined styles. And even there people are retrieving lost 19c Berlin mini-styles, etc.

Carry on.

By all means talk about the US brewing scene, but please don't think that qualifies you to talk about the UK beer history, as there are gaping gaps in your knowledge. Listening to you reminds me of the American tourist I met in the late 80's who told me, with absolute certainty, that pizza was invented in Chicago

There has always been 'craft' beer available in large quantities. In the 70s, my home county, Dorset, had 5 breweries all of whom brewed excellent beer in a traditional manner. (Apart from Devenish...which was sh*t). Those breweries had been there since the 1800's. That's a lot of breweries for a low populated area of 900sq miles.

"That 70s abyss" in the UK was localised, and tastes changed towards lager beers due to people going on cheap holidays to Spain. There are very few pubs in that "70s abyss" and you'll mostly find them in Scotland. Wetherspoons, which is the archetypal get drunk for £5 pub chain always has a great selection of local beers.

The revival has not "backfed to the UK". There never was a revival, because nothing had died. What has happened is a steady return to widespread real ale drinking (see CAMRA in 1971) and an explosion of microbreweries in the last 5 years or so, punting their wares via the Internet. Where the US influence has come in is with choice of hops, malts and really a focus on strong bottled beers, but also the hipster style marketing.

IPA is what has driven the craft beer explosion in the US. You can thank us for that

You're welcome.

CAMRA? Never heard of it. Don't be foolish: until a few years ago IPA drinkers were a niche breed at best. And even if that weren't the case, there were virtually no viable examples in the UK. Hops and Malt you say? Never heard of them. So basically nothing you posted contradicts what I said. And for many, CAMRA now is that 70s abyss.

I discussed "craft" in the US context, that it's now a buzz word where y'all are speaks to your cultural issues not mine.

Bitters and milds: setting the world on fire. You know they used to put cheap drugs in porter to cut down on malt costs. Go UK, uh, England.

 

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

I think I've never been unclear as to whether I've had 4 or 5 beers over a day. But then I'm not confused by new things. Anyhow, the "craft" designator, which goes back some 40 years, was meant to distinguish small batch beers, from corporate adjunct added swill like Budweiser, Miller etc. (or Carling and Fosters, Carlberg etc.). In the US context it was not simply a matter of scale reference, but of a retrieval of brewing methods pre-prohibition era largely as practiced by European immigrants--from all over--such that in the 19th century the US was potentially the most vibrant and diverse brewing country in the world. I.E. refining and hosting multiple traditions and styles that other monocultural nations could not. The term may seem moot when everyone has a crowdfunded brewery, but it did work in the 80s and 90s to relocate beer in the cultural and culinary landscape. A good many UK pubs still occupy that 70s abyss.

As discussed upthread, that revival has now backfed not just to the UK, but to Scandinavia, France and Italy among other places. Belgium entertains it, but has no need, to while Germany remains a bit unchanging (but very good) at a few clearly defined styles. And even there people are retrieving lost 19c Berlin mini-styles, etc.

Carry on.

By all means talk about the US brewing scene, but please don't think that qualifies you to talk about the UK beer history, as there are gaping gaps in your knowledge. Listening to you reminds me of the American tourist I met in the late 80's who told me, with absolute certainty, that pizza was invented in Chicago

There has always been 'craft' beer available in large quantities. In the 70s, my home county, Dorset, had 5 breweries all of whom brewed excellent beer in a traditional manner. (Apart from Devenish...which was sh*t). Those breweries had been there since the 1800's. That's a lot of breweries for a low populated area of 900sq miles.

"That 70s abyss" in the UK was localised, and tastes changed towards lager beers due to people going on cheap holidays to Spain. There are very few pubs in that "70s abyss" and you'll mostly find them in Scotland. Wetherspoons, which is the archetypal get drunk for £5 pub chain always has a great selection of local beers.

The revival has not "backfed to the UK". There never was a revival, because nothing had died. What has happened is a steady return to widespread real ale drinking (see CAMRA in 1971) and an explosion of microbreweries in the last 5 years or so, punting their wares via the Internet. Where the US influence has come in is with choice of hops, malts and really a focus on strong bottled beers, but also the hipster style marketing.

IPA is what has driven the craft beer explosion in the US. You can thank us for that

You're welcome.

CAMRA? Never heard of it. Don't be foolish: until a few years ago IPA drinkers were a niche breed at best. And even if that weren't the case, there were virtually no viable examples in the UK. Hops and Malt you say? Never heard of them. So basically nothing you posted contradicts what I said. And for many, CAMRA now is that 70s abyss.

I discussed "craft" in the US context, that it's now a buzz word where y'all are speaks to your cultural issues not mine.

Bitters and milds: setting the world on fire. You know they used to put cheap drugs in porter to cut down on malt costs. Go UK, uh, England.

:lol: :lol:

I've been drinking IPA for 40 years in the UK.
You know nothing.

A little reading for you about 'niche' brewer Worthington :lol:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worthington%27s_White_Shield#/search

 

[aphronesis]

Clearly you have as on repeated occasions you're incapable of referencing the part of your own posts to which I'm responding. In. re. the UK, I said virtually, not none.. Your post said IPA has driven the craft beer explosion. That may be the case in recent times, but wasn't always so. And it's already receded. Again "niche" was a reference to the US market--which you seem incapable of avoiding. You want to be a proud provincial? Go for it. And please tell everyone more about those "citrus" hops.

 

[kwikki]

You said "virtually no viable examples" in the UK.

Absolute bollocks.

Proud provincial? Nah. Just somebody who was actually alive during the eras about which you pontificate, drank the beers you say didn't exist and knows you are talking out of your hole.

Citrus hops? I meant Citrus, not Citrus.
Oh look. Predicted text.

 

[aphronesis]

So we have differing tastes and uses of the native language. Change is slow getting down your way. Fine. Have something useful to say about beer? Or you just want to rail about the US?

You can turn that function off you know. Spell on your own. The "I was there argument" always a winner. I don't pontificate about anything. I post about beers I enjoy.

 

[kwikki]

Actually, no.

You spend your time making unsolicited attacks on other posters. Yes, that's right. You initiated this little exchange. Don't start bleating when you lose a fight you picked.

Wow. You've some chip on your shoulder, attempting to gain say others experience in their own environment in an era in which you weren't there, and probably weren't even alive.....and then when held accountable respond by throwing out an accusation of 'railing against the US'.

The rest of the US doubtless would prefer you not to be their spokesperson.

 

[aphronesis]

Actually you checked into this thread to ask if I would talk a certain way about beer down the pub. So as unsolicited attacks go. I get where your short-term memory is.

 

[kwikki]

At that point in our relationship, I had no idea just how humourless you were.

 

[aphronesis]

My humor is a little less rural than yours. And I have a thing about people who make moronic statements with aggressive conviction. Makes the world a cheaper and meaner place. Sorry.

 

[kwikki]

Re:

My humor is a little less rural than yours. And I have a thing about people who make moronic statements with aggressive conviction. Makes the world a cheaper and meaner place. Sorry.

A sense of irony is as lacking as humour.

 

[aphronesis]

Clearly. Please regale me with more gripping tales from the dark days of the real ale campaign. Maybe we can tuck into the Hobgoblin and down a few.

Meanwhile, a friend at Stillwater put together a porter with Brett. I'll let you know how it is. Later babe.

 

[kwikki]

You probably thought it tasted a bit like Guinness. :geek:




Meanwhile I've been drinking Five Points Railway Porter

It tasted a bit like Guinness.

 

[ferryman]

There are very few pubs in that "70s abyss" and you'll mostly find them in Scotland.

Some of the best wee breweries and beers in the world are from Orkney to Kelso. Been enjoying real ales in most of Scottish pubs for 30 years.

 

[kwikki]

I'm Welsh

 

[Red Rick]

Let's keep this about which beers we drink and enjoy, and not about all the other stuff that's less on topic and enjoyable

 

[aphronesis]

Re:

Let's keep this about which beers we drink and enjoy, and not about all the other stuff that's less on topic and enjoyable

Thank you.

 

[kwikki]

Back in Dorset. Drinking a pint of Hall & Woodhouse First Call.

From a brewery that hasn't been around as long as the USA.

 

[aphronesis]

Yuengling. Mmmm. Old. Good.

 

[aphronesis]

To Øl, Babushka: Barleywine brewed with plums and figs and aged in port barrels. 13.5% The idea stated by the brewers was to create three layers of port: the barleywine base, the fruit and the aromas and sugars of the barrel. This bottle poured a rich head, color a muted garnet ( for those who care). All kinds of fruit flavors--cherry and whatnot--some coffee as it warms. This is sweet, but neither candy/fruit up front nor the cloying bite of some barleywines. Very balanced and hides its strength nicely. As to the brewers' goal it sits between a tawny and garrafeira port.

 

[Scott SoCal]

A very good friend sent me home with perhaps the finest Belgian Strong Ale I've ever experienced.

De Dolle Stille Nacht. Ridiculous.

 

[aphronesis]

yassuh.