What if Contador gets the Giro taken away. Would you still see him as the winner.

[hrotha]

This is stupid... You are saying that the Federations are worthless and shouldnt exist...
That You didnt like the resolution absolving Contador? Suck it...
If Andrew tested positives and his federation absolved him I wouldn't like it but I would have to suck it...

Federations should exist, but they shouldn't have a say in the process of banning their own riders. Pretty obvious conflict of interest there. Read the WADA Independent Observer report on last year's Tour.

 

[Midnightfright]

I had to vote no winner. I dont think its as simple as just removing the winner handing it to the 2nd place guy because regardless of what the records books says the DQ'd "winner" still rode that GT and undisputably affected tactics etc so things wouldnt of played out the same. This Giro with Contador is a perfect example do you think if he wasnt there tactics and attacks would of played out excatly the same? Therefore you cant say that standings would of remained the same if he wasnt there.

 

[Siriuscat]

He's riding within the garbage rules of the sport therefore he is the winner and strongest rider in the Giro

 

[Met de Versnelling]

Siriuscat puts it well.

HAd Contador won by a minute or two, then i'd have voted that whoever comes second is the winner. However, Bertie's been so dominant, and that's what i'll remember most from this Giro, (apart from Wouter, Rest his soul) and thus i can't ever see myself saying that Mibali/Anton/whoever deserved it.

I'm not a great fan of historical revisionism. Leave the results as they are, with an asterix next to them, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Yeahright]

If you took Condatdor out of the picture you would have to award the win to 'daylight' because that is all that is behind him.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

This is stupid... You are saying that the Federations are worthless and shouldnt exist...
That You didnt like the resolution absolving Contador? Suck it...
If Andrew tested positives and his federation absolved him I wouldn't like it but I would have to suck it...

Some post here says that Alberto is guilty... He was cleared from the charges ergo He is innocent... That you dont trust RFEC? Suck it... He was cleared... He's riding right now as an Innocent man... In CAS He doesnt have to prove that He's innocent is the WADA and UCI that have to prove that He's guilty... BTW Alberto is not appealing the decision is UCI and WADA who are appealing, So is not his fault to be riding right now...

You seem to have an obsession with getting other people to 'suck it'. Maybe you need to fingd yourself a nice boy and settle down?

There is a valid question about whether federations should have no part in the punishment of dopers. But Federations should not exist? Where do you infer that? and you call me stupid?

The point being, there is no downside to forcing the UCI and WADA through the appeals process, especially, it appears, if you are Spanish. You still get to stay in race shape, collect the glory, add to your reputation etc. There needs to be some disincentive.

Most people, but sadly not you, have the courtesy to understand the premise of the thread which for your benefit I will repeat,

"What if Contador gets the Giro taken away. Would you still see him as the winner."

Moaning on in an ignorant manner about whether he will be found guilty is pointless and makes you look a tool because the whole thread assumes he won't be found innocent and will be stripped of the Giro title. If you don't like the premise, find something else to do.

 

[La Pandera]

I voted Contador, but I think it'd be best to leave first place empty.

Don't understand the massive hate some people seem to have for AC though.


I think if he does get banned it should start from the CAS verdict + obviously lose the Tour win.

Exactly. What is the point of testing if you can have results rescinded while tested as being clean? If an investigation is underway/decision pending then don't allow the rider being investigated to race until that ultimate decision is made. They are in effect penalizing the rider and the riders that they are competing against. If only they could speed up the process itself.

 

[SiAp1984]

I guess Nibali will be the winner of this year's edition after the CAS-decision. And I hope he will enjoy it. As AC should have NEVER been allowed to participate because of his double-positive, Nibali would have taken this Giro anyway... Same for A. Schleck ans his 2010 Tour win btw.

 

[La Pandera]

I've read your post a few times now but still can only come up with is Your logic and case is just wrong.

He's using Cancellara logic as was originally applied to Nick Nuyens win in RVV.
Not winning a grand tour afterwards nor before thus makes the formerly 2nd place grand tour rider now promoted to the top step, "not a winner" and thus unworthy of being a seen as a grand tour champion in his eyes.

 

[La Pandera]

have to agree
also had a good chuckle at the booing on Zoncalon and his surprise at it

I'm sure scarponi wouldn't have been as smashed because he'd have never gone into the red chasing contador on etna...

You do realize that their booing of him is likely more to do with his and his teams position on the removal of the Mt. Crostis than his pending legislation?
Where were all these boo's prior to this stage?

Scarponi? You sure you want to use him as an example?

 

[La Pandera]

I would actually be watching the Giro if Contador was properly banned by now... not fun watching people race for 2nd place.. in fact I think no one was even trying to race Contador, hoping he will simply be banned in a month. no point in killing yourself trying to keep up with a cheater, when you can get your victory handed to you after the legal process is complete.. boring boring race.

First you imply that you aren't watching the Giro because Contador's racing and then you state that "no one was even trying to race Contador". Are you watching it or not? How is the race boring if you're not watching it--or are you?

 

[Maxiton]

Normally I find it harder to accept #2 as the legitimate winner, because they are often not tested to the same standards throughout, tests they would have had to face if they had been more clearly on the 'hot seat'...

1]... from a race pov [rider and his team will have had an easier ride with less duties and having faced far less direct challenges]
2]... from a doping test pov [tested less frequently and/or with tests not done to the same standards/depth that nailed #1]

Here, however, all riders know that Contador is riding with a Damocles' Sword firmly suspended above him, so you'd have to be an absolute idiot to be riding for 'just' the #2 spot in this race, and not take that very seriously.

Normally -and all too frequently- it spoils the legitimacy a bit for me, although I do accept the legal winner as the real one [or both, in that warped inconsistent way that only humans muster so well without feeling inconsistent].

This time all teams and riders know what the situation is from the moment the Giro kicked off. That changes the internal sums for me by quite a big margin.

Actually, I would even find it easier to swallow this one than the GT where the then race leader was yanked out of the Tour with only some stages left [Rasmussen gone with all the climbs firmly behind them].

At the moment it is great viewing, I think, with Contador displaying some hot stuff [assuming it is done within the same parameters that apply to all], and the race for second/first on a knife's edge.

1 second is it, with tomorrow still to come? There are really two races worth watching, this time.

Actually Hitch, my preferred answer is 'both', assuming that Contador is not turfed out for a positive test in this race as well. In that case he would show he was clearly the better rider, so wins that contest in real life, but at the same time shouldn't have been there, a technicality, albeit the one that really matters too.

I'm with the Postman on this. I've championed Contador because I like his style and because I want to be fair. And because I want to enjoy the race. But he began this tour knowing he could very likely lose even if he won, and those of us following the story also knew.

To those who threaten to give up watching if Contador is taken out, I say get a grip. We can have hope, but given his provenance we shouldn't be surprised by anything. Assuming Armstrong's downfall precipitates constructive change in the sport, it may still be awhile before the change occurs.

 

[benpounder]

Question. Who brought the Contador case to CAS? WADA? UCI? ASO?

 

[hrotha]

question. Who brought the contador case to cas? Wada? Uci? Aso?

uci & wada.

 

[Ryaguas]

You seem to have an obsession with getting other people to 'suck it'. Maybe you need to fingd yourself a nice boy and settle down?

There is a valid question about whether federations should have no part in the punishment of dopers. But Federations should not exist? Where do you infer that? and you call me stupid?

The point being, there is no downside to forcing the UCI and WADA through the appeals process, especially, it appears, if you are Spanish. You still get to stay in race shape, collect the glory, add to your reputation etc. There needs to be some disincentive.

Most people, but sadly not you, have the courtesy to understand the premise of the thread which for your benefit I will repeat,

"What if Contador gets the Giro taken away. Would you still see him as the winner."

Moaning on in an ignorant manner about whether he will be found guilty is pointless and makes you look a tool because the whole thread assumes he won't be found innocent and will be stripped of the Giro title. If you don't like the premise, find something else to do.

Doh... I dont know why I bother... I will make a Ryo or D_T here...

""

 

[benpounder]

uci & wada.

Thanks.

The UCI befuddles me (that's me being polite). On one hand, they seek to sanction Contador, yet they make an untimely decree (taking out Crostis yesterday), which likely benefited Contador.

I'm starting to think along the lines of several Pro teams: perhaps the UCI ought to be put to pasture.

 

[lagartija]

It's his problem that he appealed instead of taking the punishment he deserved (disclaimer: "supposedly deserved", although imo that distinction is nonsense in this context...)

you have missed the point altogether, contador has been cleared......end of story, like it or not.............its the UCI and WADA that have both filed an appeal to his being cleared..........now we all wait for a higher courts ruling

 

[veganrob]

you have missed the point altogether, contador has been cleared......end of story, like it or not.............its the UCI and WADA that have both filed an appeal to his being cleared..........now we all wait for a higher courts ruling

You should probably state that again so some people can understand.

 

[RedheadDane]

Contador would still be the winner to me.

If they've been willing to say A; letting him race despite the case, they should also be willing to say B; Letting him keep the wins he got during this period. Unless of course he's tested positive, then it's quite another story

 

[Mshengu]

YES! Contador is innocent until the courts say otherwise. Same with all cyclists. But he raced the giro after being cleared which is not his fault so I think he deserves to keep his victories.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Contador would still be the winner to me.

If they've been willing to say A; letting him race despite the case, they should also be willing to say B; Letting him keep the wins he got during this period. Unless of course he's tested positive, then it's quite another story

I voted the #2 guy gets the win cuz rules are rules.

But I also agree with the RHDane here. Because in my heart, unless AC tested +ive in this Giro, he should be the winner.

 

[DISTRICT 9]

Stages 9,14,15,16,19,21.
True champion, only improving,Contador. Bravissimo!
No one can hold El Pistolero down!

 

[jobiwan]

I voted the #2 guy gets the win cuz rules are rules.

But I also agree with the RHDane here. Because in my heart, unless AC tested +ive in this Giro, he should be the winner.

That's essentially what I believe, and I also voted #2 guy.

Yet they let him race the Giro, so he should be the winner.
But the stupid rules say otherwise.

 

[henryg]

If the rules allow him to race then he is allowed to win. If the court rules against him then he should lose the title for the Tour he tested positive for but not the races he rode in under the rules and did not fail any tests for.

 

[El Pistolero]

You do realize that their booing of him is likely more to do with his and his teams position on the removal of the Mt. Crostis than his pending legislation?
Where were all these boo's prior to this stage?

Scarponi? You sure you want to use him as an example?

Seeing as some fans tried to hit Contador and one of them held a steak in front of him it's pretty clear that they're booing him for both his doping case and the Mt. Crostis.