What is Jack Bobridge on?

[simo1733]

"Most of you guys"

Maybe 2-3 people in the whole thread have vaguely suggested PED use, in fact those that do are only joking, so I'm not sure anyone has genuinely suggested it.

I disagree with them too - but it doesn't mean I should ruin the discussion and have a cry about other posters like these two posts above me have done.

Too true.and he wouldn't care less if it was an Italian who was being accused.Personally I accept the performance as entirely legit,although I do have a distrust of state sponsored performance programs,wherever they are from.

 

[andy1234]

Yes, he has a good reputation, but i certainly wouldn't put him up there with Bassons. In the end the guy was the best prologue rider & a very good time trialist in the epo-era, and wasn't to shabby in the mountains as well (a bunch of top 15-20 finishes in mountain stages). That does't mean he doped, but if i have to put money on someone being clean i pick Bassons way over Boardman.

You might not put him up there with Bassons, but most people of that era will.
Anyone who has ever worked with him will tell you the same thing.

He was also under far more scrutiny than Bassons ever was.

 

[Ferminal]

Can't answer all of your question but here is the current top 11 times.

FASTEST 4,000M INDIVIDUAL PURSUIT TIMES
4-10.534 World record
Jack Bobridge (Australia)
Sydney, Australian National Track Championships 2011


4-11.114*

Chris Boardman (Great Britain)

Manchester, World Championships final 1996



4-13.353*

Chris Boardman (Great Britain)

Manchester, World Championships 1996


4-13.399
Rohan Dennis (Australia)
Sydney, Australian National Track Championships 2011

4-14-427
Jack Bobridge (Australia)
Adelaide, Australian National Track Championships qualifying 2010

4-14.845
Jack Bobridge (Australia) Commonwealth Games record
Delhi, Commonwealth Games qualifying, Oct 5, 2010

4-15.015

Geraint Thomas (Great Britain)

Manchester, World Cup, October 2009



4-15.031

Bradley Wiggins (Great Britain)

Beijing, Olympic Games qualifying, August 2008



4-15.160

Taylor Phinney (USA)

Pruszkow, Poland, World Championships, March 2009



4-15.165

Bradley Wiggins (Great Britain)

Athens, Olympic Games qualifying, August 2004



4-15.223

Taylor Phinney (USA)

Copenhagen, World Cup, February 2009

* Set using the Superman position, which has been banned

I think the fact Bobridge has 3 of the top 6 times says a lot.

And just an aside. The best conditions for a bike and rider cutting through the air .... are not the best conditions to breath and get the maximum amount of air in your lungs.

What strikes me is that even Boardman only has two times under 4:15.

I always thought that with his position, his times were consistently under that mark.

So it's a bit suprising that Boardman didn't find good form and good track more often, and go under 4:15 (more than he did).

Has Bobridge just been comparatively lucky, or is it just what we expect given his power combined with advances in preparation etc.

Either way I think we will see sub-4:10 soon, if riders like Thomas, Phinney and Bobridge keep coming through.

Yes, Cancellara could probably go better if he had specific training, we would all love to see it (4km or Hour) but it's not that simple. Just like these amazing pursuiters can't go and smoke a prologue, Cancellara can't walk onto the track and beat everyone over 4,000m.

 

[samerics]

People forget how Boardman absolutely trounced everyone in the 1994 Prologue, without dope. They forget that he came second to Indurain in the 95 Dauphine. Clean. He was class but in the wrong era.

 

[Chuffy]

People forget how Boardman absolutely trounced everyone in the 1994 Prologue, without dope. They forget that he came second to Indurain in the 95 Dauphine. Clean. He was class but in the wrong era.

Hmm, I didn't know about Boadman's record in the Dauphine. Given the era in which he achieved that it does rather beg the question about how much advantage dope gives vs a quality clean rider like Boardman.

 

[samerics]

Either that or it proves that EPO was capable or turning carthorses into thoroughbreds.

 

[ultimobici]

Hmm, I didn't know about Boadman's record in the Dauphine. Given the era in which he achieved that it does rather beg the question about how much advantage dope gives vs a quality clean rider like Boardman.

The advantage would seem to be recovery as Boardman slipped back each day from leading Indurain by 10 seconds to trailing him by 2'21" The stages he saved himself on were the two TT's where he first beat Indurain in the prologue, then pegged him to just over a minute in the 36km test. That everyone bar Thierry Marie was the thick end of 2 minutes down is testament to the benefit the Lotus & Espada bikes gave in the hands of Boardman & Indurain.

 

[samerics]

I never got the Lotus advantage, really didn't. I always thought it was overstated. Look at Indurains hour. I think Boardmans advantage was his phenomenal position on the bike, so narrow and flat.

 

[samerics]

Boardman did have medical issues that affected his recovery, and it is testament to his class that he broke the hour in his final year on a normal bike whilst suffering from the condition that effectively shortened his career.

 

[andy1234]

The advantage would seem to be recovery as Boardman slipped back each day from leading Indurain by 10 seconds to trailing him by 2'21" The stages he saved himself on were the two TT's where he first beat Indurain in the prologue, then pegged him to just over a minute in the 36km test. That everyone bar Thierry Marie was the thick end of 2 minutes down is testament to the benefit the Lotus & Espada bikes gave in the hands of Boardman & Indurain.

The Lotus bike wasn't that important actually.
For his first Hour record, Chris was going to use the Lotus bike, but fell out with Lotus when they basically told him that he couldnt do it without them.

He rode a Corima and broke the record anyway.

 

[ultimobici]

Boardman did have medical issues that affected his recovery, and it is testament to his class that he broke the hour in his final year on a normal bike whilst suffering from the condition that effectively shortened his career.

His medical condition, osteoporosis, was unlikely to have been an issue at that time. Being a pursuiter & tester in the professional peloton it was unlikely he would ever have been the contender the British press painted him to be. The Dauphine was about his limit but Indurain was too much for him to defeat.

 

[ultimobici]

The Lotus bike wasn't that important actually.
For his first Hour record, Chris was going to use the Lotus bike, but fell out with Lotus when they basically told him that he couldnt do it without them.

He rode a Corima and broke the record anyway.

Fair point, but I was referring to the comparison to what most other teams were still using - pretty conventional bikes albeit with tri-bars but not monocoques.

 

[Chuffy]

The advantage would seem to be recovery as Boardman slipped back each day from leading Indurain by 10 seconds to trailing him by 2'21" The stages he saved himself on were the two TT's where he first beat Indurain in the prologue, then pegged him to just over a minute in the 36km test. That everyone bar Thierry Marie was the thick end of 2 minutes down is testament to the benefit the Lotus & Espada bikes gave in the hands of Boardman & Indurain.

Thanks for that. I suppose if you take his medical condition into account he could have been even closer, perhaps even ahead? That still seems extraordinary, given that Indurain was a) almost certainly packing and b) a complete monster.

 

[bobbins]

Just out of interest. Why is everyone so dead set sure that Boardman is clean?

 

[Mambo95]

Just out of interest. Why is everyone so dead set sure that Boardman is clean?

Mainly, because everyone around then thought he was.

There was a French rider who gave an interview around that time who said that you couldn't get into the top 100 on the rankings without doping, and then corrected himself to say that wasn't quite true as Boardman was in there (the rider knew CB quite well).

 

[Chuffy]

Just out of interest. Why is everyone so dead set sure that Boardman is clean?

From Wikipedia - "In 1998 he was diagnosed with an illness like Osteoporosis. Treatment for this condition meant that Boardman needed hormone replacement therapy, necessitating that Boardman take Testosterone. As a professional cyclist, it was against the sport's doping rules for Boardman to take testosterone."
No backdated TUEs here!

 

[Ferminal]

From Wikipedia - "In 1998 he was diagnosed with an illness like Osteoporosis. Treatment for this condition meant that Boardman needed hormone replacement therapy, necessitating that Boardman take Testosterone. As a professional cyclist, it was against the sport's doping rules for Boardman to take testosterone."
No backdated TUEs here!

Yeh... beat me to it.

Wiki is wrong though isn't it - he could have taken testosterone within the rules as he would have been able to get a TUE... but Chris wouldn't do it (hence why I think he was clean).

 

[andy1234]

Yeh... beat me to it.

Wiki is wrong though isn't it - he could have taken testosterone within the rules as he would have been able to get a TUE... but Chris wouldn't do it (hence why I think he was clean).

Actually the Wiki is correct.
When he was diagnosed, it was shortly after the Festina affair.
In a knee jerk reaction, the UCI refused to authorise the Testosterone therapy with a TUE, so Chris had no choice but to compete without.

From 1998 onwards, when he probably should have been reaching his peak as a road rider, he never really competed to the same level as he had previously.
He said he just couldn't sustain the training loads that he followed before the illness.