What makes a legend !

[Fernandez]

Eros Poli victory in the Mont Ventoux stage in the Tour de France 1994 is a legendary feat. Its something that I still havent forgotten.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Is Cipo considered a legend? If he isn't, the Cav definitely isn't.

Cav has a better palmares than Cipo imo. Plus I think Cipo is borderline Legendary.

How? I don't think so... Cav have more Tour stage victories, in every other category Cipo is better or at least equal

 

[RedheadDane]

Personally I think that a rider needs to have been retired for a couple of years before you can start applying legend status to him, or her.
A legend, to me, is someone whose name is even known by people who weren't even born when they were riding. Someone who's still remembered long after they've stopped riding.
I also think that in order to be truly legendary a rider would need to trandenscend (sp?) the sport, be known by people who aren't crazy cycling-geeks.

 

[Carols]

Reading these posts is why I think the term Legend is thrown round like confetti.

IMO the Legends of cycling are:
Fausto Coppi
Gino Bartili
Jacques Anquetil
Felice Gimondi
Eddy Mercxk
Bernard Hinault

Go look at these palmares and tell me Cav, Cipo, Kelly or a dozen other names mentioned here are Legends. Maybe some future generations might think a couple of guys around since Hinault are Legends. My list of possibles is Very Short.

Signed,
Grumpy Old Woman

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Personally I think that a rider needs to have been retired for a couple of years before you can start applying legend status to him, or her.
A legend, to me, is someone whose name is even known by people who weren't even born when they were riding. Someone who's still remembered long after they've stopped riding.
I also think that in order to be truly legendary a rider would need to trandenscend (sp?) the sport, be known by people who aren't crazy cycling-geeks.

That would make Armstrong pretty much the only legend in cycling history in most countries.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Reading these posts is why I think the term Legend is thrown round like confetti.

IMO the Legends of cycling are:
Fausto Coppi
Gino Bartili
Jacques Anquetil
Felice Gimondi
Eddy Mercxk
Bernard Hinault

Go look at these palmares and tell me Cav, Cipo, Kelly or a dozen other names mentioned here are Legends. Maybe some future generations might think a couple of guys around since Hinault are Legends. My list of possibles is Very Short.

Signed,
Grumpy Old Woman

It's a great list, all bona-fide legends without any doubt. The only thing is that just looking at the palmares doesn't take into account either style or the era.

You mentioned Pantani earlier in the thread. His palmares is very average if we're discussing legendary riders; it's his style, the manner of his victories and the battles he was involved in which makes him so well remembered.

Also, until the 90s, pretty much every generation had a rider who was dominant in both GT's and monuments. No-one has got close in the 30 years since Hinault retired; it's just too specialized now. I don't think that should exclude modern riders from having legendary status. If Merckx was riding now and tried to do everything, he'd probably be similar to Valverde, Anquetil would be a rider like Tony Martin.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I think Cav is a great, great sprinter, perhaps even a legendary sprinter, but he ain't a legendary cyclist if that makes sense.

Also Kelly is a legendary cyclist imo.

 

[Fernandez]

Re:

Reading these posts is why I think the term Legend is thrown round like confetti.

IMO the Legends of cycling are:
Fausto Coppi
Gino Bartili
Jacques Anquetil
Felice Gimondi
Eddy Mercxk
Bernard Hinault

Go look at these palmares and tell me Cav, Cipo, Kelly or a dozen other names mentioned here are Legends. Maybe some future generations might think a couple of guys around since Hinault are Legends. My list of possibles is Very Short.

Signed,
Grumpy Old Woman

Except for Hinault, at the time when these riders competed there was no specialization and if you were better rider you won everything. If you put these riders in nowadays the wouldnt win a tenth of they won, and if you put someone like Valverde at that times he would have won more than Merckx. What for me makes Valverde close to a legend its his capacity of being competitive all year long, year after year. And what makes Contador a legend its his capacity of winning lots of different stage races year after year against lots of different contenders.

 

[Fernandez]

Re: Re:

Reading these posts is why I think the term Legend is thrown round like confetti.

IMO the Legends of cycling are:
Fausto Coppi
Gino Bartili
Jacques Anquetil
Felice Gimondi
Eddy Mercxk
Bernard Hinault

Go look at these palmares and tell me Cav, Cipo, Kelly or a dozen other names mentioned here are Legends. Maybe some future generations might think a couple of guys around since Hinault are Legends. My list of possibles is Very Short.

Signed,
Grumpy Old Woman

It's a great list, all bona-fide legends without any doubt. The only thing is that just looking at the palmares doesn't take into account either style or the era.

You mentioned Pantani earlier in the thread. His palmares is very average if we're discussing legendary riders; it's his style, the manner of his victories and the battles he was involved in which makes him so well remembered.

Also, until the 90s, pretty much every generation had a rider who was dominant in both GT's and monuments. No-one has got close in the 30 years since Hinault retired; it's just too specialized now. I don't think that should exclude modern riders from having legendary status. If Merckx was riding now and tried to do everything, he'd probably be similar to Valverde, Anquetil would be a rider like Tony Martin.

Yes, in these times of specialization its imposible to achieve what these riders achieved. Winning a Tour today needs the same effort than winning 5 Tours 50 years ago.

 

[Brullnux]

I think Cancellara and Boonen should count as legends of cobbled classics. Boonen has the joint record for PR and ToF victories and quite a few Tour stages, and Canc has the record for ToF and has just one less victory at PR. It is unfair to overlook them if you then call someone like De Vlaeminck or Museeuw a legend.

I think there are very few true legends, specialised legends there are many, Valverede for Ardennes and Contador for GTs spring to mind, and maybe even Cav for one of the best pure sprinters. I think Boonen, Cancellara, Valverde and Contador are the closest we have nowadays.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

To be a legend a rider must do something unique that either not many other riders, or even no other rider, has done before. The rider must achieve feats in their career that will stand the test of time.

Hampsten racing through snow up the Gavia, Museeuw pointing to the leg he almost lost as he won Paris-Roubaix, Magni using an inner tube held in his mouth to help steer his bike; these are the types of rides that will always be remembered and give the riders legend status.

Legendary riders or legendary rides? I don't think that one ride is enough to make Hampsten a legend for example.

Legendary rides make a rider into a legend.

My main point is that these rides will be remembered forever, and the riders that made them will be remembered as well. You can't look back on a ride without remembering who made it. They did things that few other riders have. Riders like Merckx, Hinault or Coppi are remembered for the same reason, achieving what very few others have achieved.

using that criteria you could include wiggo ( i don't).

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Reading these posts is why I think the term Legend is thrown round like confetti.

IMO the Legends of cycling are:
Fausto Coppi
Gino Bartili
Jacques Anquetil
Felice Gimondi
Eddy Mercxk
Bernard Hinault

Go look at these palmares and tell me Cav, Cipo, Kelly or a dozen other names mentioned here are Legends. Maybe some future generations might think a couple of guys around since Hinault are Legends. My list of possibles is Very Short.

Signed,
Grumpy Old Woman

It's a great list, all bona-fide legends without any doubt. The only thing is that just looking at the palmares doesn't take into account either style or the era.

You mentioned Pantani earlier in the thread. His palmares is very average if we're discussing legendary riders; it's his style, the manner of his victories and the battles he was involved in which makes him so well remembered.

Also, until the 90s, pretty much every generation had a rider who was dominant in both GT's and monuments. No-one has got close in the 30 years since Hinault retired; it's just too specialized now. I don't think that should exclude modern riders from having legendary status. If Merckx was riding now and tried to do everything, he'd probably be similar to Valverde, Anquetil would be a rider like Tony Martin.

As I said there are a Very Few possibles since Hinault. Pantani is one, he lit the world on fire with his drama, maybe Indurain, LeMond and Contador. It won't be for me to decide, I'll be ashes and dust.

When my generation passes and there is no one left that saw Anquetil, Gimondi, Mercxk and Hinault actually race the criteria will undoubtedly change. It is the way of life .

But Cav??? Geez I'd turn over in my grave LOL!

 

[BigMac]

Sean Kelly has got to be there too. There hasn't been a rider like him since, and I doubt there ever will.

 

[StannisBaratheon]

I see now that Contador is only 32 years old, why are people calling him old? Cuddles won le Tour at 34.
And yes, of course Contador is a legend, and I believe and hope Nibali is a future one. Contador was, and maybe still is, the Messi of cycling.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Yup Cav doesnt belong in this discussion at all. Not versatile enough, not enough classics, not enough green jerseys and began to get beat up by Kittel and Greipel when he suddenly wasnt the only sprinter in the field in TdF no more.

I think Contador for sure will enter that. The way he approach races and isnt scared to attack long way out which is a RARITY in this day and age. That deserves respect. But, but, Merckx attacked from further out and won monuments? Yup, but a completely other time. Had Contador ridden in that era, im pretty sure he would just have swept the GT's year in and year out in his prime.

Valv probably wont be considered a legend since he lacks fx. a Tour de France or a few Worlds or something like that, but he still has the pest Palmares of his generation and IS the best overall rider as well. But he just lacks something in the masses.

Boonen and Cance? Too many chrashes etc., Boonen had the tools to absolutely be one had he kept the 2005-2006 style of winning monuments and being one of the fastest men, but that for whatever reasons that didnt happen.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I see now that Contador is only 32 years old, why are people calling him old? Cuddles won le Tour at 34.
And yes, of course Contador is a legend, and I believe and hope Nibali is a future one. Contador was, and maybe still is, the Messi of cycling.

Who called him old?

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

Is Cipo considered a legend? If he isn't, the Cav definitely isn't.

Cav has a better palmares than Cipo imo. Plus I think Cipo is borderline Legendary.

How? I don't think so... Cav have more Tour stage victories, in every other category Cipo is better or at least equal

And Cavendish also never won Gent-Wevelgem which guys like Cipollini and Steels won multiple times and contemporaries like Hushovd, Freire, EBH, Sagan have all won once. Even Eisel won it.

 

[Nick C.]

You know whose palmares are almost at legend status: Vincenzo Nibali. He won all three Grand Tours and has podiumed in other years in each. He has podiumed or was in the final move in MSR, Liege and the Worlds. He has won Tirreno and been Italian national champion. I am sure I am missing a few other highlights. But somehow he seems to be always best of the rest type of guy. The Vuelta DQ may end up reading uglier than it really was. I think we look for a dominant level in one sphere and at least some results in another
Contador has legend status on the Grand Tour victories even excluding the two that were retroactively erased, but only a Fleche podium in a major one day race.
Valverde is an Ardennes legend, a disappointment despite the podiums at the Worlds and has the one Vuelta win. He could have benefited form another Tour podium or top five, the 2006 Vuelta, anything in the Giro (yes I know why he didn't go there) or even a KOM in the Tour.
Boonen is there or very close. A Milan San Remo and there can be no argument in my book.
I am surprised Cancellara gets such little play.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Sean Kelly has got to be there too. There hasn't been a rider like him since, and I doubt there ever will.

I don't see too much difference between Valverde and Kelly.

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Sean Kelly has got to be there too. There hasn't been a rider like him since, and I doubt there ever will.

I don't see too much difference between Valverde and Kelly.

Just the palmares. The day VV wins Roubaix, Lombardia and MSR more than once, then a comparison is possible. He's only getting older though.

 

[luckyboy]

Re: Re:

Sean Kelly has got to be there too. There hasn't been a rider like him since, and I doubt there ever will.

I don't see too much difference between Valverde and Kelly.

More Monuments, more GT stages, more stage races, more points jerseys...

 

[Angliru]

Oscarito (see my avatar) is the epitome of legend. The type of rider that could have an injury filled season, show up for big race, and just by the level of his intellect and talent come out with the win. He was a a sprinter without a sprint train that often still showed up at the end, hands raised, crossing the line first. He was a virtuoso on a bicycle. Three world road championships, three MSR's, Tirreno, Ghent, Paris Tours, Tour green jersey. Just a magnificent athlete.

 

[phanatic]

To me, the only legends are Andy, RoboBasso, and Moser.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

To me, the only legends are Andy, RoboBasso, and Moser.

Andy who??? Only in a bizarro world where up is down, night is day and Donald Trump is an example of a compassionate liberal.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Sean Kelly has got to be there too. There hasn't been a rider like him since, and I doubt there ever will.

I don't see too much difference between Valverde and Kelly.

Me neither....both great riders, neither Legends IMO .