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What riders and teams do you trust?

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Apr 2, 2009
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RDV4ROUBAIX said:
Bro Deal, I'm just going to follow the advice of your signature: "Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken

+1
sound advice
 
May 6, 2009
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I have always considered Jeremy Roy clean, then again that is perhaps the reason he has only one pro win to his career. I also trust Bradley Wiggans.

Does anybody on here trust Mark Cavendish, as far as one can go without knowing him personally as a team-mate/family or friend and just by watching him on TV?
 
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craig1985 said:
I have always considered Jeremy Roy clean,

i completely misread that and thought you said ron jeremy.. :confused:

was completely confused
 
Teams, or riders?

When you ask "Teams", do you mean entire teams with no one doping. I have to say I would find this to be highly unlikely. At least on a PT level. Continental, maybe you'll find a few. I'd venture to guess Ouch is clean. Pretty poor performances from three top riders (one really) who you'd think would be riding much better (Landis, Sutherland, Evans).

If you're asking about teams that are outwardly against doping, and do not have a systematic doping program, and probably have some (several? most?) clean riders on them, I'd say your chances are possible of finding a few, sure.

I'd like to name some riders, but would be guessing. Mostly the ones who don't have great performances, and speak out against doping with vigor...probably. But I don't know. I'd like to believe more than that, but it's hard these days.

Some people may bark at this, but I don't think the women's side is clean either. Too many stunning performances there in recent years that can almost only be explained by juice.

I hate saying this, but even with the anti-doping program, I have a hard time trusting Riis, and not because of his past (everyone was doped back then. I think he might mean well with his words over the last few years, but after Jorg Jaschke testified that Riis had to have known riders on his team were doping and willfully turned a blind eye, he lost me.

I trust The Hog less than Riis. He's about as trustworthy as Manolo Saiz, only more wisely covert.

I no longer trust programs overseen by Dr. Damsgaard. He's become the fox guarding the hen house at this point.

Of course I don't trust the UCI either. Less than Damsgaard. Pack of foxes guarding the hen house.

I wouldn't call BigBoat a "troll". He's too knowledgeable and informed with good solutions on truly getting the sport cleaned up. What he is however, is negative. More than any fan I know.
 
craig1985 said:
How many people take creditability in what Mr Jaschke has to say out of interest (I mean that as a general question)?

I agree with Lemod's comments about "repentant" dopers. They are the people who need to be listened to and allowed to tell their story to encourage a clean generation.

It's way better than "omerta"
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
I wouldn't call BigBoat a "troll". He's too knowledgeable and informed with good solutions on truly getting the sport cleaned up. What he is however, is negative. More than any fan I know.
I have no problem with doping comments being on a doping topic like this one but when they get made on other topics in future they're getting reported. Yeah, he is negative and I have to wonder why some like that's on a cycling forum when all they seem to want to do is pay out the sport?

Back to topic - do you trust riders who are part of the new Bike Pure thing?
 
Apr 22, 2009
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craig1985 said:
Does anybody on here trust Mark Cavendish, as far as one can go without knowing him personally as a team-mate/family or friend and just by watching him on TV?

I don't know if trust is the right word because, yeah, I don't know the guy, but I would be surprised and a little disappointed if he turned up positive - going on his stance on doping and his track background.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Cartesian Centaur said:
I don't know if trust is the right word because, yeah, I don't know the guy, but I would be surprised and a little disappointed if he turned up positive - going on his stance on doping and his track background.

+1

I'd call it hope more than trust at this point...I sure hope he's clean cuz he's extremely exciting to watch race a bike.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Only when cavendish starts to survive the big hills, or can follow an increase of speed of the pack on some bumps in the road, i'll be on my toes...
 
Apr 1, 2009
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Unfortunately, I can't even trust guys in my local races.
Out of about a dozen guys I go on training rides with, I trust all but three.
One of those three I know has doped in the past, when he was a pro, and the other two are very young ambitious guys I have suspicions about:(:eek:

As for the PT teams, none of them. I hope some might really be trying to run a clean outfit, but...

Riders, I have some personal favorites that I again hope to be clean, but after so many positives, one cannot trust anyone
 
Apr 10, 2009
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Zoncolan said:
Unfortunately, I can't even trust guys in my local races.
Out of about a dozen guys I go on training rides with, I trust all but three.
One of those three I know has doped in the past, when he was a pro, and the other two are very young ambitious guys I have suspicions about:(:eek:

As for the PT teams, none of them. I hope some might really be trying to run a clean outfit, but...

Riders, I have some personal favorites that I again hope to be clean, but after so many positives, one cannot trust anyone

This is about word for word how I feel. But with regard to my local guys, I trust maybe ten out of fifty guys I ride with. One of my best buddies is a doper and he has no clue that I know and he swears he is clean. (Another friend of mine used to get his "shipments") :(
 
Apr 1, 2009
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slowoldman said:
This is about word for word how I feel. But with regard to my local guys, I trust maybe ten out of fifty guys I ride with. One of my best buddies is a doper and he has no clue that I know and he swears he is clean. (Another friend of mine used to get his "shipments") :(

Dudes,
This is a good topic. I think everything is summarized by the idea that if it is not ilegal, it is ok to take it. You see, you go to the local bikeshop and you find the products like EPNO, Sportlegs, Optygen, that cost loads of money and there is some dude who thinks that using that stuff is going to give him/her an edge. That is the first sign of doping. I can tell you I am guilty to probably making my own energy drink with glucose and salt at home
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Eating, drinking, nutrition is NOT doping.

NONE of the Grand Tour guys are totally clean if they have half a brain. But some are on less gear than others.

Most will not be able to blood dope and thats a huge power disadvantate right there. If there was no 02 carriers or blood doping, gene doping who knows who would win? Maybe the guy in 50th! Maybe somebody not even in the race!
 
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Zoncolan said:
Riders, I have some personal favorites that I again hope to be clean, but after so many positives, one cannot trust anyone

it might be interesting to explore this and see the figures behind the myth...

how many pro-riders are there, across the pro tour teams, the continental teams and some of the smaller teams...

and how many riders have actually failed tests and been banned by the UCI.. we all talk like there are dozens being banned every week, but in reality the amount of bans is actually very small..

would be intersting to know the percentage of riders, or just how many bans v how many pro riders, and then perhaps compare that against some other sports...

somebody want to do the maths?
 
Apr 1, 2009
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dimspace said:
it might be interesting to explore this and see the figures behind the myth...

how many pro-riders are there, across the pro tour teams, the continental teams and some of the smaller teams...

and how many riders have actually failed tests and been banned by the UCI.. we all talk like there are dozens being banned every week, but in reality the amount of bans is actually very small..

would be intersting to know the percentage of riders, or just how many bans v how many pro riders, and then perhaps compare that against some other sports...

somebody want to do the maths?
That is hardly a useful comparison though.

There are quite a few sports that go out of their way to avoid finding dopers (e.g., soccer, tennis, baseball, Aussie Rules football etc).

And I don't think anyone would suggest that many of the dopers in cycling are actually getting caught. How about a quick list of people who have never officially tested positive to a banned substance: Armstrong, Ullrich (apart from eccy at nightclub), Basso, Pantani, Riis, Contador, Valverde, Rasmussen, Indurain, and so on. Do you think any of them are completely "clean"?
 
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that wasnt really the question was it...

i was more exploring the possible myth that loads of cyclists are being banned for drugs, when really its only a handful, but i have no concept of how many pro riders that there actually are.. it would be intersting to work it out to put the figures in some kind of proportion..

patswana said:
Armstrong, Ullrich (apart from eccy at nightclub), Basso, Pantani, Riis, Contador, Valverde, Rasmussen, Indurain, and so on. Do you think any of them are completely "clean"?

and you roll out the standard dope list...

of those, 6 are historical, and are likely to have doped using products that where not tested for.. if you going to put those sort of names on a list why not merckx, Coppi, Anquetil, kelly, etc

So we are down to Rasmussun, Valverde, Contador.. one banned, one being taken to court, and that leaves only contador as the question.... do i have suspicions on contador.. actually, not really, i dont think the guy is that good... i think he did when with liberty seguros, almost definately, 2007, the team won him paris-nice, not him himself, his 2007 tour de france win was tainted by rasmussens stupidity and he was second best in an otherwise fairly weak feild, his veulta win was fairly mediocre as another weak field... the only thing that makes me really suspicious is the giro win where he came from a beach to beat a bunch of known dopers... lol.. but actually.. i dont rate the guy.. its a shame that he goes down as one of the few to have won all three tours.. makes him look better than he actually is..
 
dimspace said:
it might be interesting to explore this and see the figures behind the myth...

how many pro-riders are there, across the pro tour teams, the continental teams and some of the smaller teams...

and how many riders have actually failed tests and been banned by the UCI.. we all talk like there are dozens being banned every week, but in reality the amount of bans is actually very small..

would be intersting to know the percentage of riders, or just how many bans v how many pro riders, and then perhaps compare that against some other sports...

somebody want to do the maths?

Try this: Make a list of all the riders who placed in the top ten of the three GTs in the last ten years. Now start ticking off those who have tested positive and riders like Armstrong, Kloden, and Valverde who have not been formally punished but we know were doping. See what percentage of riders are left.
 
May 8, 2009
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dimspace said:
that wasnt really the question was it...
i dont think the guy is that good...[/B] i think he did when with liberty seguros, almost definately, 2007, the team won him paris-nice, not him himself, his 2007 tour de france win was tainted by rasmussens stupidity and he was second best in an otherwise fairly weak feild, his veulta win was fairly mediocre as another weak field... the only thing that makes me really suspicious is the giro win where he came from a beach to beat a bunch of known dopers... lol.. but actually.. i dont rate the guy.. its a shame that he goes down as one of the few to have won all three tours.. makes him look better than he actually is..

I don´t get it. Why weak field in the Tour and Vuelta that Contador won?. I mean the best bikers of the World were in that Tour. The best bikers who usually ride in the Vuelta were there also. If his wins were not impressive, does it mean to you that he was not doped (nor the rest neither)?

I guess every year in the tour the best bikers are there. Guys that train as much as possible and that are physically gifted. I would not call them a weak field.
 
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BroDeal said:
Try this: Make a list of all the riders who placed in the top ten of the three GTs in the last ten years. Now start ticking off those who have tested positive and riders like Armstrong, Kloden, and Valverde who have not been formally punished but we know were doping. See what percentage of riders are left.

to be fair to armstrong, we know that one of the seven was epo enhanced.. we are not sure about the rest..

i guess the moral of that is, winners dope.. :?
 
To answer Dim's question, which I do think is a good start, go to this link here, that lists nearly all doping cases in cycling.

This however does leave out many, many riders highly suspected of doping, but not caught due to the high percentage of false negatives.

Try this: Make a list of all the riders who placed in the top ten of the three GTs in the last ten years. Now start ticking off those who have tested positive and riders like Armstrong, Kloden, and Valverde who have not been formally punished but we know were doping. See what percentage of riders are left.

That's really how to do it. From a cursory glance, you're not left with much. For winners, Sastre hasn't been implicated in anything, nor has Cunego, Periero or Menchov. But Periero rode on Phonak, and knew many of the people implicated in OP. When you start going down the list of others, VandeVelde, Simoni (falsely accused once), and a few others start to appear that have kept out of trouble. It starts to look like pretty, well, DIM.