- May 15, 2011
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+1 to Howman for saying it as it is.
"The appeal was based on the fact that the federation got it wrong in exonerating him. simple as that. He had the banned substance in his system, with no excuse and that was why we appealed. I'm hopeful that CAS will make the correct decision."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/howman-talks-tough-on-organised-crime-and-doping
"The appeal was based on the fact that the federation got it wrong in exonerating him. simple as that. He had the banned substance in his system, with no excuse and that was why we appealed. I'm hopeful that CAS will make the correct decision."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/howman-talks-tough-on-organised-crime-and-doping
OK, but how come there is excuse for them:
http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/news?slug=ap-mexico-doping
They also had banned substance in them and therefore there should not be excuse as well or ...?
Dr. Maserati
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Thoughtforfood said:I think he will be cleared, but I hope he isn't. To clear him "for the sake of the sport" is the poorest excuse imaginable. If Contador infused a bag that contained Clen because he didn't wait long enough to draw out the blood after using Clen, then he deserves a ban. Protestations of mystery meat are laughably transparent.
What I also find interesting are the people who froth at the mouth wanting Armstrong exposed, yet defend a rider who by performance indication is as dirty as anyone. I will never forget the "tranquillo" look on Contador's face at the top of the climb in the final TT in 2009. Everyone else that came through that point looked like they were about to die, but not Bertie, he looked fresh as a daisy. I don't know if you guys are aware of this, but many of those guys who looked dead were doped to the eyeballs...but not so for Bertie.Contador is a doping cheat who hadn't tested positive until 2010. They found a banned substance in his system, and he deserves to be punished for it. He won't be because the pressure is on to "save"cycling, and having another winner of the TdF disqualified is bad press, but that will never change the fact that Contador is as dirty as any rider in the peloton...but you guys make sure you only crucify Lance.
I want both punished because there isn't any difference between the two in regards to their preparation. Maybe Contador is a nicer guy, but that has nothing to do with whether you deserve to suffer the consequences of your actions.
Sorry for quoting an old-ish post, reading through this thread only now.
I agree with the post, the double standards on this forum can be numbing sometimes and I don't like Armstrong myself. If proven guilty, he has to be banned and not booed or let off. With his history and a positive test, the prosecution, if it does its role well, should be able to find him guilty. Before any Contador supporters jump at my throat, the same applies to Frank Schleck, Andy and Armstrong or anyone if evidence is brought against them.
Dr. Maserati, true and it made me chuckle as well. He has to prove that his meat was contaminated and there's no reason for the judge to assume that the meat he bought was contaminated, unless the shop/friend that he bought the meat from has an extensive history of selling contaminated meat and so far there's no evidence of that.
Dr. Maserati
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"of course he derserves a ban,,,,and I hope he burns in hell"
wheres the beef?
cap pistols are in the holsters for now. Maybe he gets some new cap pistols for Christmas?
wheres the beef?
cap pistols are in the holsters for now. Maybe he gets some new cap pistols for Christmas?
- May 15, 2011
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The Howman quote ends any doubt I had that WADA really wanted to convict. I always thought there was the possibility that they appealed because they wanted Bert to be cleared by a body that had more credibility than RFEC.
Howman is confirming that there is a world of difference between Spain and Mexico (and that cows don’t swim that far, lol; that map is priceless, Mas). Coming on the heels of their declining to appeal the decision of the Mexican soccer players, this seems to send a clear message that if an athlete tests positive in a European country, he cannot use contamination to get off unless he can provide some solid evidence—the actual meat, positive tests by teammates that ate the same meat, perhaps a hairtest. This also fits with their recent decision not to adopt a threshold for CB, and certainly provides no reason to believe they might change their minds later.
Let’s also keep in mind that had Bert not tested negative on July 20, pointing to transfusion as the only reasonable alternative to contamination, his case probably would not have gained as much traction as it had. Any riders who test positive for CB in Europe in the future, even at very low levels, will have an even tougher case if they don’t have a preceding negative.
All that said, I still strongly favor testing of large populations for CB at the most sensitive detection methods possible. A database of such statistics would be extremely useful for future cases. It could be used to end, once and for all, any talk of contamination, or alternatively, point to a level that really could indicate contamination. But as I discussed before, I still think this is best handled on a case by case basis, since no level, not matter how low, is definite proof of contamination—nor is most any level, no matter how high, proof of doping.
Howman is confirming that there is a world of difference between Spain and Mexico (and that cows don’t swim that far, lol; that map is priceless, Mas). Coming on the heels of their declining to appeal the decision of the Mexican soccer players, this seems to send a clear message that if an athlete tests positive in a European country, he cannot use contamination to get off unless he can provide some solid evidence—the actual meat, positive tests by teammates that ate the same meat, perhaps a hairtest. This also fits with their recent decision not to adopt a threshold for CB, and certainly provides no reason to believe they might change their minds later.
Let’s also keep in mind that had Bert not tested negative on July 20, pointing to transfusion as the only reasonable alternative to contamination, his case probably would not have gained as much traction as it had. Any riders who test positive for CB in Europe in the future, even at very low levels, will have an even tougher case if they don’t have a preceding negative.
All that said, I still strongly favor testing of large populations for CB at the most sensitive detection methods possible. A database of such statistics would be extremely useful for future cases. It could be used to end, once and for all, any talk of contamination, or alternatively, point to a level that really could indicate contamination. But as I discussed before, I still think this is best handled on a case by case basis, since no level, not matter how low, is definite proof of contamination—nor is most any level, no matter how high, proof of doping.
ramjambunath said:
No actually he doesn't, as has been discussed ad nauseam by now and which was also confirmed by the good doctor. It's all about likelihoods, that much is celar by now.
Regards
GJ
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airstream said:I don't consider 10-20 sec to be losing time regarding Cancellara on the section like that.
Everyone is going the same speed on a steep, non-technical descent like that, you're at the steepest part of the power-speed curve. Any gains are gonna be marginal.
GJB123 said:
True, I took it a bit far after reading some unbelievable comments. I agree with your post but as has been seen the likelihood is small (again, this has been discussed forever as well and let's not get into it). In the end it's up to the judge, who isn't a book of rules but a person interpreting evidence and if his arguments are beyond reasonable doubt he will be let off. It's just that I don't believe he is innocent and I'm sure many others agree as well.
Before someone pounces, I don't believe many GC riders are clean but a case cannot be built on innuendo and sensibilities.
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He has to lose the title, even if they dont ban him.
What if a gc guy gets during a tv interview at the Tour attacked by a guy with a needle full of EPO?He has the proof that he didnt put the stuff into his body so he wouldnt get a ban but would he be allowed to continue?No.
If Contador is indeed innocent, he can sue some spanish farmers but he cant keep his title.
What if a gc guy gets during a tv interview at the Tour attacked by a guy with a needle full of EPO?He has the proof that he didnt put the stuff into his body so he wouldnt get a ban but would he be allowed to continue?No.
If Contador is indeed innocent, he can sue some spanish farmers but he cant keep his title.
Sophistic said:
I imagine that is a decision the ASO alone would have to make, and not within the powers of RFEC/WADA/UCI/CAS in such a scenario.
Sophistic said:
It will be kind of easy to prove what happened then and of course he would get to continue.
No ban means he was innocent, so he gets to keep his title. Taking away the title means he was guilty. If you do that while the court cleared him, it will only result in more court action. And in the end, with the CAS verdict in hand (if cleared), Contador will win that court battle fast. So if you do try to take away his title while he was cleared, Contador and his lawyers are the only one who get better of it.
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