::::~ Wheelbuilders thread ~::::

[marathon marke]

Why not inside pulling? The vast majority of my wheels are built with inside pulling (trailing) spokes.

With about 50 years of wheel building experience combined between the two of us I'll try to answer this is the most concise way possible to a fellow wheel slinger,... because it really doesn't matter. If it makes you feel any better the rear wheel from that set is built with trailing spokes on the outside of the flange.

I built wheels for about 12 years back in the '80s, when I worked at a couple shops, and that's what I always thought too - for the front wheel, I never thought it really mattered.

Here I am, back in the saddle after a 20 year hiatus from the bike, and working in a great shop again. It's good to be back home.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Why not inside pulling? The vast majority of my wheels are built with inside pulling (trailing) spokes.

With about 50 years of wheel building experience combined between the two of us I'll try to answer this is the most concise way possible to a fellow wheel slinger,... because it really doesn't matter. If it makes you feel any better the rear wheel from that set is built with trailing spokes on the outside of the flange.

It doesn't make me feel anyway one way or another. Take a breath, I'm not trying to argue. This is a discussion group, you aren't standing here so I asked.

Because the other one(rear) was outside pulling. I know it means nothing except when building large-ish flanges, 28h and 3 cross..and then I lace inside pulling to get the big chunck of spoke off the flange on the pulling spokes.

I build outside pulling for customers, on some of my 32h wheels I lace so the crossed spokes are at the rim seam and tire valve hole but customer's don't understand this.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

It doesn't make me feel anyway one way or another. Take a breath, I'm not trying to argue. This is a discussion group, you aren't standing here so I asked.

Because the other one(rear) was outside pulling. I know it means nothing except when building large-ish flanges, 28h and 3 cross..and then I lace inside pulling to get the big chunck of spoke off the flange on the pulling spokes.

I build outside pulling for customers, on some of my 32h wheels I lace so the crossed spokes are at the rim seam and tire valve hole but customer's don't understand this.

Thank you, I thought you were going to start splitting hairs about lacing patterns. My spoke pattern options are pretty straightforward having to only deal with one main hub. The Super G is always going to be my mainstay road hub as long as EDCO keeps making it, 11 years now.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Thank you, I thought you were going to start splitting hairs about lacing patterns. My spoke pattern options are pretty straightforward having to only deal with one main hub. The Super G is always going to be my mainstay road hub as long as EDCO keeps making it, 11 years now.

Who do you get EDCO from? Direct? Still looking for a decent, lesser priced Campag compatible hubset..Miche is OK but hubsets only.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Who do you get EDCO from? Direct? Still looking for a decent, lesser priced Campag compatible hubset..Miche is OK but hubsets only.

Yes, direct. I don't think there are any minimums for dealers, but you also have to deal with customs just the same as with anything factory direct from outside our boarders. In the end, you're still able to make your margins easy, and get individual front and rear, cost ends up being a little less than a DT 240 with the same Swiss attention to detail.

Give them a holler, owner is Rob van Hoek, rob(at)edco(dot)ch. I'm sure he'd be willing to work something out.

 

[richwagmn]

RD4 and Busted, do you guys refuse to build wheels with alloy nipples? What if someone just HAD to have red anodized nipples and spokes?

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

RD4 and Busted, do you guys refuse to build wheels with alloy nipples? What if someone just HAD to have red anodized nipples and spokes?

I won't build with alloy nipples, they're weaker, therefore reduce the lifespan of the interface, also they oxidize over time and seize up to the point where you can't turn them anymore, they eventually weld themselves into place from a combination of tension and the inherent properties of aluminum.

I'm switching to Pillar spokes this fall/winter, they've got 30 color choices of spokes and brass nips, including red..

 

[Bustedknuckle]

RD4 and Busted, do you guys refuse to build wheels with alloy nipples? What if someone just HAD to have red anodized nipples and spokes?

I am pretty conservative when it comes to my wheel designs. If I don't think it will add to the performance and reliability of the wheel, I don't do it. That includes ALU nipples. The weight 'savings' is barely measurable on a gram scale, they are soft, deform over time, I see lots of wheels with broken ALU nipples. I'm pretty blind to those who want 'colors', spokes and nipps. You really can't tell when the bike is moving anyway.

 

[Hors-Catégorie]

Do any of You Guy's have an opinion about Boyd Wheel's.The rim's and hubs are manufactured in Taiwan. Sapim Spokes..............

http://boydcycling.com/

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Do any of You Guy's have an opinion about Boyd Wheel's.The rim's and hubs are manufactured in Taiwan. Sapim Spokes..............

http://boydcycling.com/

I've heard good things about Boyd's wheels on and off the forum. I'm sure his builds are ok, but looking at the sum of his parts he offers nothing spectacular, Taiwanese hubs and rims across the board, matter of fact rims from the same supplier I just dumped and replaced with ENVE. Look at the last pic I posted, same rim Boyd is using. He's basically a smaller version of Williams, Neuvation, Rol, and the 200 other wheel companies out there. All offer the same thing over and over with nothing new to add. Clutter.

 

[Hors-Catégorie]

I've heard good things about Boyd's wheels on and off the forum. I'm sure his builds are ok, but looking at the sum of his parts he offers nothing spectacular, Taiwanese hubs and rims across the board, matter of fact rims from the same supplier I just dumped and replaced with ENVE. Look at the last pic I posted, same rim Boyd is using. He's basically a smaller version of Williams, Neuvation, Rol, and the 200 other wheel companies out there. All offer the same thing over and over with nothing new to add. Clutter.

Cheers for that. Much appreciated.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Do any of You Guy's have an opinion about Boyd Wheel's.The rim's and hubs are manufactured in Taiwan. Sapim Spokes..............

http://boydcycling.com/

Boyd or 'put name of asianwheelmakerhere. Source this stuff in Taiwan or China, pay little or nuthin(they make stuff for scads of 'wheelbuild companys'), get a warehouse and fancy stickers and a couple of youngsters to build wheels and you are a high end wheel building company. Yep, many use Sapim spokes but a hamburger in another package is still a hamburger.

Since the hubs and rims are so inexpensive, there is big $ to be made here...wait a couple of months and more than a few will be gone, only to be replaced by some new ones...

If ya want a throw away wheelset, pay little, smash it around, throw it away, repeat, like some $300 cross frames, hard to beat.

 

[Hors-Catégorie]

So which wheel company offer's the highest quality carbon rims. Easton ? Enve ?
Bontrager ? Zipp ? Hed ? Reynolds ? Fast Forward ? Token ? Dt Swiss ? Fulcrum ?

And how many of, if any, of the above are produced by Gigantex Composites.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

So which wheel company offer's the highest quality carbon rims. Easton ? Enve ?
Bontrager ? Zipp ? Hed ? Reynolds ? Fast Forward ? Token ? Dt Swiss ? Fulcrum ?

And how many of, if any, of the above are produced by Gigantex Composites.

ENVE is top of the heap now for the last few years. Best carbon rims to build with, ride quality is insane, and their complete wheels use standard parts, no proprietary junk, DT hubs, J-bend spokes.

 

[steelciocc]

$ $ $

RDV - How 'bout a ballpark figure for a set of 40ish mm ENVE clinchers built on a set of supplied 28h Record hubs.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

RDV - How 'bout a ballpark figure for a set of 40ish mm ENVE clinchers built on a set of supplied 28h Record hubs.

send me a PM.

 

[Notso Swift]

Deep, Carbon and Clincher... one of these things does not belong

 

[richwagmn]

I won't build with alloy nipples, they're weaker, therefore reduce the lifespan of the interface, also they oxidize over time and seize up to the point where you can't turn them anymore, they eventually weld themselves into place from a combination of tension and the inherent properties of aluminum.

I'm switching to Pillar spokes this fall/winter, they've got 30 color choices of spokes and brass nips, including red..

Went out to Pillar's site. Nice stuff. Did you evaluate their stuff switching? I know you like Sapim.

What are you thoughts on Ti nipples?

 

[Bustedknuckle]

So which wheel company offer's the highest quality carbon rims. Easton ? Enve ?
Bontrager ? Zipp ? Hed ? Reynolds ? Fast Forward ? Token ? Dt Swiss ? Fulcrum ?

And how many of, if any, of the above are produced by Gigantex Composites.

Enve followed by Reynolds(limited drilling options tho). For 'RIMS' not whole wheels.

Ti nipples answer no question, solve no problem.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Went out to Pillar's site. Nice stuff. Did you evaluate their stuff switching? I know you like Sapim.

What are you thoughts on Ti nipples?

Switching to Pillar for their PSR series of spokes, tripple butted is the same weight as db spokes from Sapim or DT but have a a reinforced elbow, better hub/spoke interface. Most wheel builders have already made the switch, the color choice is also a big draw, every other person I talk to in the last couple years wants something besides silver or black, truthfully I'm sick just being able to offer silver and black, so I'll start with red, white, blue, yellow, pink, then add more colors later.

Ti spokes and nips are one of those really expensive, unnecessary things. Ti spokes and nips isn't a good idea, must think of cost/performance ratio. Ti axle, skewers, sure, that's where it ends though.

 

[rich00]

Switching to Pillar for their PSR series of spokes, tripple butted is the same weight as db spokes from Sapim or DT but have a a reinforced elbow, better hub/spoke interface. Most wheel builders have already made the switch, the color choice is also a big draw, every other person I talk to in the last couple years wants something besides silver or black, truthfully I'm sick just being able to offer silver and black, so I'll start with red, white, blue, yellow, pink, then add more colors later.

Ti spokes and nips are one of those really expensive, unnecessary things. Ti spokes and nips isn't a good idea, must think of cost/performance ratio. Ti axle, skewers, sure, that's where it ends though.

I just finished building a set of Kinlin xr270 with Pillar spokes, the tripple butted. I'm still quite a novice at building wheels, but I found the spoke twist with these to be quite fustrating. I've used Sapim race and DT comps and they were no where near the amount of spoke twist. Any advice on how to deal with excessive sopke twist ?

 

[karlboss]

Deep, Carbon and Clincher... one of these things does not belong

Clinchers roll significantly faster than tubs.

 

[Wallace]

Clinchers roll significantly faster than tubs.

Which is the reason why the pros only ride clinchers.

 

[karlboss]

I'd have thought it was reliability, depending on brand, the difference can be 5 watts at 30kph, but pushing a extra 5 watts beats the hell out of waiting for your team car by the side of the road.

http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-1503651.html

 

[fatsprintking]

Which is the reason why the pros only ride clinchers.

And all the track riders