::::~ Wheelbuilders thread ~::::

[badboyberty]

Thanks, it was the pattern I was going to go with. I am letting my 11 year old lace up his first set of wheels. A used 9 speed Dura-ace hub with an NOS Mavic Mach 2 CD (hard to screw that up).

They're never too young to start learning a trade.

 

[L29205]

They're never too young to start learning a trade.

great picture, I am less concerned about trade than I am about keeping the kid on a bike and not in front of a Xbox or a PS3. It is a hard balance.

 

[krebs303]

. I've never heard of a reputable wheel builder reversing the pattern on a rebuild.

Now with MC wheels we did it all the time. It was standard to make inner and outer spokes go the same direction with the inner spokes taking the drive torque. also if you were changing from European drilled rim to a Japanese drilled rim as they are different. Are bicycle rims drilled with a drive side? or are the spoke holes drilled straight through all at the same angles?

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Are bicycle rims drilled with a drive side? or are the spoke holes drilled straight through all at the same angles?

Some are drilled straight, usually the cheaper ones. Most are drilled with a staggered pattern for left and right side.

 

[krebs303]

Do the inner and outer spokes have the same bends and throat lengths? Are there differt bends and thraot lengths for different hubs? or is the flange thickness pretty much the same on all hubs

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Do the inner and outer spokes have the same bends and throat lengths? Are there differt bends and thraot lengths for different hubs? or is the flange thickness pretty much the same on all hubs

All standard J bend spokes are the same, unless you're building a wheel with a hub that might require a custom spec'd longer throat, or a nailhead (straight pull). Most road hub flanges are around 3mm thick, varies by .5 if they're reinforced for radial lacing. The flanges on a standard issue Record or DA hub are usually on the thinner side with shorter flanges, which is why you void the warranty if you radially lace them, 3x or 2x only. Aftermarket hubs such as DT, Chris King, Phil, White, etc. etc. have beefier flanges so you can run the gamut of lacing patterns.

 

[krebs303]

would it be worthwhile to just stock nailhead blanks and bend, cut and thread as needed or would it be to time consuming?

with MC hubs it was the same. if there was hub flange breakage problems we would increase the cross pattern to increase flange strength

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

would it be worthwhile to just stock nailhead blanks and bend, cut and thread as needed or would it be to time consuming?

No, I wouldn't do that. Huge waste of time, even if you could get blanks, which I don't think you can. Standard J-bend spokes are far more available in more lengths and configs than nailheads. And it's too much work even if you have some sort of wire bender, you wouldn't get the set angle consistent enough, and would make for a really poor build. Additionally, most nailhead spokes are either double butted or bladed, so the amount you can cut them is limited to just a few mm.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Some are drilled straight, usually the cheaper ones. Most are drilled with a staggered pattern for left and right side.

DT are centered drilled.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

DT are centered drilled.

A fine rim mfg. is DT, one of the top three. I've always liked them too, you know that.

The rim on the left in that pic is the Ambrosio WS23. It's 3mm taller and about 150g heavier than the DT 415, but almost half the price. They make for rock solid trainers or even s/s commuters. Just about the same profile too at the top, very small flat spot so there's no room for a staggered pattern, but to how much difference that makes in a build is very subjective. I'm not going to presume that it does, but it makes sense to have a staggered pattern on some rims I guess.

 

[Black Dog]

A fine rim mfg. is DT, one of the top three. I've always liked them too, you know that.

The rim on the left in that pic is the Ambrosio WS23. It's 3mm taller and about 150g heavier than the DT 415, but almost half the price. They make for rock solid trainers or even s/s commuters. Just about the same profile too at the top, very small flat spot so there's no room for a staggered pattern, but to how much difference that makes in a build is very subjective. I'm not going to presume that it does, but it makes sense to have a staggered pattern on some rims I guess.

Staggered is fine until you lower the spoke count on a box rim and the rims starts to twist toward each spoke. I used to see that a lot with early light weight box shaped rims with lower spoke counts. Remember the Mavic GL-330's?

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Staggered is fine until you lower the spoke count on a box rim and the rims starts to twist toward each spoke. I used to see that a lot with early light weight box shaped rims with lower spoke counts. Remember the Mavic GL-330's?

I remember the GL's, and those old Mavic's used to pop eyelets like it was going out of style. Luckily, the shop where I learned to build wheels was very Ital-centric, and we rarely used Mavic for custom road wheels, which many times showed up out of round too. We primarily used Ambrosio, Campagnolo, and F.I.R.

le ruote rotonde sono buone!

RDV

 

[vladkips]

Thoughts on these for race wheels?

I have commented on this forum before regarding the thinking man's Ardennes. I train on these: Velocity Synergy rims, Shimano Ultegra hubs, DT competition spokes 32 3x with brass nipples. Great. I want to put a lighter, race only set of wheels together and was thinking along the lines of:

-Chris King Cross Hubs
-Velocity A23 rims
-DT aerolite or Sapim cx-ray
-Nipples?
-Spoke pattern?
-Spoke count (I was thinking 28 front, 32 rear)?

Any advice on the spoke pattern and nipple choice (or anything else)? I like the 23mm rims hence the A23 and Synergy.

My weight shifts around a bit (67-72kg) depending on season and motivation, I am not hard on my wheels in general, but the roads on most races I would frequent aren't smooth asphalt. I do like to climb, and climb fast when I can.

Enough info? Appreciate your thoughts wheelbuilders...

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I have commented on this forum before regarding the thinking man's Ardennes. I train on these: Velocity Synergy rims, Shimano Ultegra hubs, DT competition spokes 32 3x with brass nipples. Great. I want to put a lighter, race only set of wheels together and was thinking along the lines of:

-Chris King Cross Hubs
-Velocity A23 rims
-DT aerolite or Sapim cx-ray
-Nipples?
-Spoke pattern?
-Spoke count (I was thinking 28 front, 32 rear)?

Any advice on the spoke pattern and nipple choice (or anything else)? I like the 23mm rims hence the A23 and Synergy.

My weight shifts around a bit (67-72kg) depending on season and motivation, I am not hard on my wheels in general, but the roads on most races I would frequent aren't smooth asphalt. I do like to climb, and climb fast when I can.

Enough info? Appreciate your thoughts wheelbuilders...

Gonna be a nice set. Sapim CX-Ray for spokes, naturally. Could get away with less spokes, but since you said your usual racing grounds are not ideal pavement it's better to be safe. Your two lacing options would be:

3x rear, 2x front, brass nips.

or

half radial rear, 3x drive side, radial front, brass nips.

Do not use alloy nips on Velocity rims! Since it's a special event wheel I'd do the 2nd option.

Happy racing

RDV

 

[L29205]

Gonna be a nice set. Sapim CX-Ray for spokes, naturally. Could get away with less spokes, but since you said your usual racing grounds are not ideal pavement it's better to be safe. Your two lacing options would be:

3x rear, 2x front, brass nips.

or

half radial rear, 3x drive side, radial front, brass nips.

Do not use alloy nips on Velocity rims! Since it's a special event wheel I'd do the 2nd option.

Happy racing

RDV

Overall I agree but I guess I would like to know what the race is. I am not sure if I would recommend radial front in a Cirt.

 

[vladkips]

Thanks for replies, v helpful.

I might race the odd crit, but it is the exception. Actually, I avoid them unless training or a stage race necessitates.

I tend to like a bit of flex in the front wheel (I know that is opposite to probably the prevailing wisdom), but I prefer that feel when out of the saddle as opposed to the one where the wheel is on an edge and I'm about to go over it (something higher-end factory-built options tend to feel like, at least in my limited experience with such wheels).

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

...or, try a 1x front with the cx-rays. I've done this before and it works great. Looks funky too!

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I have commented on this forum before regarding the thinking man's Ardennes. I train on these: Velocity Synergy rims, Shimano Ultegra hubs, DT competition spokes 32 3x with brass nipples. Great. I want to put a lighter, race only set of wheels together and was thinking along the lines of:

-Chris King Cross Hubs
-Velocity A23 rims
-DT aerolite or Sapim cx-ray
-Nipples?
-Spoke pattern?
-Spoke count (I was thinking 28 front, 32 rear)?

Any advice on the spoke pattern and nipple choice (or anything else)? I like the 23mm rims hence the A23 and Synergy.

My weight shifts around a bit (67-72kg) depending on season and motivation, I am not hard on my wheels in general, but the roads on most races I would frequent aren't smooth asphalt. I do like to climb, and climb fast when I can.

Enough info? Appreciate your thoughts wheelbuilders...

I would use DT hubs. Simpler, easier to maintain. Overhauling a CK is expensive and complicated.

Either the DT or Sapim if you can get the right lengths.

2 cross 28h front, 3 cross 32h rear, brass nipples all around. If you don't like the expense of Aerolites or Sapim(around $2.50-$3 per spoke), you could do Revolutions front and left side rear, 14/15 on the right. It would be a bit more robust wheelset, little cheaper, wee bit heavier.

 

[vladkips]

I would use DT hubs. Simpler, easier to maintain. Overhauling a CK is expensive and complicated.

Either the DT or Sapim if you can get the right lengths.

2 cross 28h front, 3 cross 32h rear, brass nipples all around. If you don't like the expense of Aerolites or Sapim(around $2.50-$3 per spoke), you could do Revolutions front and left side rear, 14/15 on the right. It would be a bit more robust wheelset, little cheaper, wee bit heavier.

DT 240s were my other hub consideration, but I think I like the pimp factor of CK.

What is the prob with alu nipples on Velocity rims? I have only ever used brass nipples on Velocity rims previously because of same advice, but I never knew why.

You guys have any thoughts on skewers? I was thinking zipp ti, but this is the area I've thought least about at this stage. Like the rest of the wheels, weight is a consideration, but not if it compromises reliability.

Thanks all for your opinions.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

What is the prob with alu nipples on Velocity rims? I have only ever used brass nipples on Velocity rims previously because of same advice, but I never knew why.

Aluminum is such a soft alloy that the nipples will fuse together with an aluminum rim over time that has no stainless reinforced eyelets such as most of the Velocity line up. They're just a bad idea anyway, don't last nearly as long as brass, and the weight difference is negligible.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

DT 240s were my other hub consideration, but I think I like the pimp factor of CK.

What is the prob with alu nipples on Velocity rims? I have only ever used brass nipples on Velocity rims previously because of same advice, but I never knew why.

You guys have any thoughts on skewers? I was thinking zipp ti, but this is the area I've thought least about at this stage. Like the rest of the wheels, weight is a consideration, but not if it compromises reliability.

Thanks all for your opinions.

Pimp factor is important.....CK are fine hubs just complicated, expensive to overhaul in comparison to DT.

Non eyeleted rims means the spoke hole at the rim, the edges, can cut the soft aluminum nipple. PLUS, in general, aluminum nipps are more fragile in the long run, even on eyeleted rims, add nothing to the wheel performance, teeny/tiny weight savings.

I'd use DT skewers regardless of hub. Ti shewers are light but can be fragile. Titanium doesn't like that kind of stress.

 

[krebs303]

Looks like Salvador Dali laced this wheel.
They called it a "race lace" How would you ever get the tension right?
It's a cross 1 straight lace!

 

[usedtobefast]

Looks like Salvador Dali laced this wheel.
They called it a "race lace" How would you ever get the tension right?
It's a cross 1 straight lace!

for real?......

 

[krebs303]

for real?......

yeah appears to be. not much of a race bike. can't imagine it to work well on any bike. I think it would need quite a period of adjustment to bed in the spokes and keep them tight.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

yeah appears to be. not much of a race bike. can't imagine it to work well on any bike. I think it would need quite a period of adjustment to bed in the spokes and keep them tight.

'Twisty spokes'..great for bike shows, does nothing for wheel performance.