::::~ Wheelbuilders thread ~::::

[lostintime]

Wouldn't you know it ..... the wheelbuilder I was going to use is out of stock of A719's, no eta..... likely months. I've waited for almost a year to get this bike put together, I'm not waiting any longer. He offered Velocity Dyads instead, they have no eyelets. Though I'm no wheelbuilder, it doesn't make much sense to not have eyelets, unless the Al is really beefed up at the spoke hole. Velocty's are not. Any feedback about Velocity Dyad no eyelet rims? Of all brands I read about online, Velocity rims without eyelets seem to fail more than any other rim.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Dyads are just fine. If you want eyelets use the Synergy and Synergy O/C. Would be a great wheel set for that Riv of yours. Notice that Riv also only deals with Velocity for their nice touring wheels, now that's sayin' somthin'.

 

[Michele]

Just found out this thread.


Dura Ace 7800
DRC Focus 299
Sapim Laser

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Wouldn't you know it ..... the wheelbuilder I was going to use is out of stock of A719's, no eta..... likely months. I've waited for almost a year to get this bike put together, I'm not waiting any longer. He offered Velocity Dyads instead, they have no eyelets. Though I'm no wheelbuilder, it doesn't make much sense to not have eyelets, unless the Al is really beefed up at the spoke hole. Velocty's are not. Any feedback about Velocity Dyad no eyelet rims? Of all brands I read about online, Velocity rims without eyelets seem to fail more than any other rim.

I know yer not 'talkin' to me but I have built hundreds of Velocity rims, Aeroheads and Dyads and have never had any problem with spoke pull thru. The alu is beefed up at the spoke ole, gotta be or they would all fail. BTW-I have A719s..where are you? I ship worldwide.

 

[lostintime]

Thanks everyone .... I found another builder who has some A719's in stock. I live in the middle of nowhere so I rely on mail order custom wheels. I was going to use another builder, but as fate has it I'll use Joe Young again. He built a set for me 10 years ago and have been flawless. I like that phrase that Gerd Schraner uses ..... that a good wheel "stands". That's why I pay the big bucks to have someone else build and ship wheels that stand!

Since my previous wheels were T520 rims, the predecessor of the A719, I thought it'd be easier if I wanted to swap the wheels to have the same size rims.

BTW .... Mavic says this rim takes a 20mm rim tape. I got some Velox(green writing) at REI that sold as 19mm, but measures 17.2 actual. I've checked Google and Velox tape is sold in so many advertised widths it makes the head spin. I've seen them listed as 13,15,16,17,19,20 or 22mm tape, and I know they don't make that many. http://www.velox.fr/fr/index.php?art=1&th=21 Isn't it color coded?

So ... are the one's I got from REI wide enough? .... I don't recall what I have in my current T520's. I'm thinking REI's is mislabeled, but I find no one in the US that sells 19mm tape it's either 17 or 22mm.

 

[Black Dog]

As long as the rime tape covers the holes with a few mm on each side you are fine. Just centre it when you put in on.

 

[Fenceline]

I have a set of Mavic Aksium race wheels that need a little attention.
Does anyone know what a reasonable spoke tension would be for them?

 

[Anonymous]

RDV;

Question.

I am about to build up a set of wheels.

Record hubs, Montreal rims.

32 spoke.

I'm 185 lbs.

I'm thinking Revolutions on the front and rear NDS ; Competitions on rear DS.

Thoughts for the Revolutions on the rear under my poundage?

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

RDV;

Question.

I am about to build up a set of wheels.

Record hubs, Montreal rims.

32 spoke.

I'm 185 lbs.

I'm thinking Revolutions on the front and rear NDS ; Competitions on rear DS.

Thoughts for the Revolutions on the rear under my poundage?

We're the same weight. I've had those rims and hubs too, but built them with Sapim Race (DT Comp equiv). You could do that spec you mentioned if you're a soft pedaler, I tend to mash taller gears and ride gravel roads so I build my personal sets with heftier spokes. Don't tension too high with those Montreals, those rims are notorious for popping eyelets.

 

[tortoisedr]

Campy Shamal or Edge 45

I'm an old fat guy (158 to 163 lbs racing weight, now 184) who used to race... Now I work too much, but love to climb, love epic long rides, and often ride rough pavement and occasionally gravel. I rode and raced for years on 32 spoke clinchers, and to this day am still riding them (I did race on some old Mavic Heliums on many occasions). Never been too tough on my wheels, my old Heliums are still in use. Now I'm on Campy 11 (old bike on Campy 8), riding 32 spoke DT 465s with Campy hubs, Revo front spokes w/ alloy nipples, 14-15 rear w/ brass nipples. They have been bomb proof so far...

I'm thinking about a second set of wheels... Considering Campy Shamals versus handbuilt Edge 45 clinchers with Sapim CX Ray spokes 20 front 24 rear on DT 240 hubs, alloy nipples front, brass rear.

My goals are lighter weight and a bit more aero for long epic climbing rides.

Opinions are welcome!

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I'm an old fat guy (158 to 163 lbs racing weight, now 184) who used to race... Now I work too much, but love to climb, love epic long rides, and often ride rough pavement and occasionally gravel. I rode and raced for years on 32 spoke clinchers, and to this day am still riding them (I did race on some old Mavic Heliums on many occasions). Never been too tough on my wheels, my old Heliums are still in use. Now I'm on Campy 11 (old bike on Campy 8), riding 32 spoke DT 465s with Campy hubs, Revo front spokes w/ alloy nipples, 14-15 rear w/ brass nipples. They have been bomb proof so far...

I'm thinking about a second set of wheels... Considering Campy Shamals versus handbuilt Edge 45 clinchers with Sapim CX Ray spokes 20 front 24 rear on DT 240 hubs, alloy nipples front, brass rear.

My goals are lighter weight and a bit more aero for long epic climbing rides.

Opinions are welcome!

Mavic pre-built sucks! Stick with the hand built Edge, a world better than those Shamals. Proprietary aluminum spokes, GROSS!

 

[Anonymous]

We're the same weight. I've had those rims and hubs too, but built them with Sapim Race (DT Comp equiv). You could do that spec you mentioned if you're a soft pedaler, I tend to mash taller gears and ride gravel roads so I build my personal sets with heftier spokes. Don't tension too high with those Montreals, those rims are notorious for popping eyelets.

Good thought, heavier spokes it will be.

Thanks.

 

[tortoisedr]

Mavic pre-built sucks! Stick with the hand built Edge, a world better than those Shamals. Proprietary aluminum spokes, GROSS!

Thanks, I'll look into the Edge wheels!

 

[Fenceline]

For years I have read and heard claims about the aerodynamic advantages of various wheels, these are generally based on manufacturers claims and purchasers anecdotes.
Is there a direct comparison of the actual drag created by various wheels that has been done in a independent,controlled, and realistic fashion?

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

For years I have read and heard claims about the aerodynamic advantages of various wheels, these are generally based on manufacturers claims and purchasers anecdotes.
Is there a direct comparison of the actual drag created by various wheels that has been done in a independent,controlled, and realistic fashion?

You won't find any real, unbiased, independent tests. There are some hovering out on the interweb, but they're all very incomplete and outdated. Let's just say the difference between a Zipp 404 and all those other wheels out there that are based on it are so close it's not even worth mentioning. I'd rather see people be concerned with quality of build and parts.

 

[Black Dog]

A big PLUS 1 for what RVD said. Manufacturers are all making impossible claims about their stuff, not just wheels. Quality and durability should be your focus.

 

[Indurain]

I finally built my 42mm alloy rims on Novatech hubs with triplebutted pillar spokes. They ride and look fantastic, thanks for the tips. One problem though, The guy that sent me the spokes sent me the wrong size for my rear driveside. 267's instead of 263's.

I couldn't make the driveside 3 cross as they were too short for that, so had to stick with 2 cross. Anyway, I think I got the spoke tension tight enough, but about 4mm hangs out the end of the spoke nipples. This doesn't cause me potential flats or anything, and the wheel rides true but is there any long term strength issues I need to consider considering the spokes on the driveside are only being held together by about half the thread?

I did notice however, that one of the spokes hits my derailleur when in on my top rear 23tooth sprocket. I can't move the derailleur anymore as it won't change then. Does this mean I don't have enough tension in that it doesn't happen when I'm off the bike (about 3mm clearance between spokes and derailleur pulley). Or I have enough room to put about a 2mm spacer in between the hub and the cassette. I'm afraid that if I tighten them too much that the rim may pull spokes eventually or weaken them due to the thread issue above. Can't really send the spokes back as from overseas and hard to get the right size spokes from LBS. But will try if needed.

All advice appreciated.

Thanks

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I wouldn't ride that rear wheel till you get the correct spoke lengths, shouldn't have really built it without being able to do the proper pattern with the proper lengths anyway. You're cutting the lifespan of your parts quicker than if you would have done it right in the 1st place, now you have to rebuild. If you have spokes hitting the der cage then you're probably not dished enough, assuming that your low limit screw is set right. Before you started tensioning did you bend inward the elbows of the spokes so they're touching the hub flange and make more of a straight line to the rim? This is essential. What kind of truing stand do you have? Do you have a dishing gauge? If it's "hard" to get proper spoke lengths from your LBS maybe it's time to go to a new shop.

 

[LugHugger]

Deep section rims?

OK, going for my first set of hand builts. Most of my riding is 2-3 hours in the saddle ave 32-40kph/20-25mph, rolling countryside, lots of 60-80m hills 500m-2km long. I'm riding SRAM components, a fillet brazed steel frame. Am on Mavic SL Premiums at the moment (with no issues!) and I'm wondering if deep section 'aero' rims (carbon or alloy) are recommended and if they would deliver the 'aero' benefits promised by the marketeers? I won't be going for tubs. Leaving aside any budgetary constraints for the time being, I'd welcome any thoughts or recommendations.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I wouldn't bother with aero wheels unless you're racing, and deep section rims don't really look right on skinny tubed steel bikes anyway. If you must, do an Edge 45 rim laced to DT 240's. On a budget, Williams System 38.

 

[Notso Swift]

Will it make a difference, yes, at anything above about 30-35 kph, but as above, if you are not racing...
If you want to go aero there are many choices of low-ish profile (20-23mm) rims
...Of course going to a tubular (which I know you have discounted) will have a greater "benefit", but again not racing it doesn't matter

(Disclaimer, I have a set of GP4's built on some DuraAce hubs, yet 9/10 times I race on my "training" wheels that are lighter, more aero, clinchers)

 

[oldborn]

Campagnolo Zonda

Hi there!

Why front hub on Campy Zonda is having that lag motion, i mean my older wheels had better hub or what, pay them 400 euro and front hub is s...!

 

[STODRR]

What do you wheel builders think of the Neuvation road wheels for a set of training wheels, also to put in the neutral wheel vehicle during races?

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

What do you wheel builders think of the Neuvation road wheels for a set of training wheels, also to put in the neutral wheel vehicle during races?

The biggest downfall of the cheapo wheel Co.'s are the hubs. It's no wonder they also sell replacement bearings on the site too, assuming that the end user has a cartridge bearing puller and press. Pretty sure these Neuvation hubs are made by the same company in Taiwan that makes American Classic hubs. And what are Am Classic known for?... crap hubs.

Neutral service, fine. Long lasting durable training wheels, fail. One last point is that when people chime in on how fantastic brand z,x, or y wheelset is going for them, when you ask how much they weigh it's usually some 140 pounder that couldn't wear anything out no matter how much they tried.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

The biggest downfall of the cheapo wheel Co.'s are the hubs. It's no wonder they also sell replacement bearings on the site too, assuming that the end user has a cartridge bearing puller and press. Pretty sure these Neuvation hubs are made by the same company in Taiwan that makes American Classic hubs. And what are Am Classic known for?... crap hubs.

Neutral service, fine. Long lasting durable training wheels, fail. One last point is that when people chime in on how fantastic brand z,x, or y wheelset is going for them, when you ask how much they weigh it's usually some 140 pounder that couldn't wear anything out no matter how much they tried.

Reality, what a concept. Some guys with $ travel to Taiwan, source some rims, hubs and spokes, get some guy there to build them and then sell them direct(no bike shops please) to double their margin. Big advert campaign later complete with flashing ads on cyclingnews.com and he goes to the bank...while the owners wonder why the bearings in the hub lasted one rainy ride or it instantly started breaking spokes.

Sites like Neuvation show real disdain for LBS, USA. I can see why after taking a look at their wheels.