When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

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the sceptic said:
How do you expect me to link to a deleted tweet?

After the vuelta he tweeted that he didnt think anyone would be interested in Horner, similarly to Cobo a few years ago. That is a pretty strong hint at what he thinks of Horner.
here is a poll: suppose a team needed a certain amounts of points to get the holy WT license. Leipheimer and Horner could each solve the problem if hired. As manager who would you spend cash on?

JV is in the Bottles camp.

Personally I would go for Chris Kleen. Better at PR.
 
Dazed and Confused said:
here is a poll: suppose a team needed a certain amounts of points to get the holy WT license. Leipheimer and Horner could each solve the problem if hired. As manager who would you spend cash on?

JV is in the Bottles camp.

Personally I would go for Chris Kleen. Better at PR.
And better value on the road? Or would Levi on Horners program have killed the vuelta as well? Well, perhaps he would.. But still, Horner proved he could win a grand tour in "modern" time, levi never did.
 
hiero2 said:
...Chris Horner claims he is clean. Chris Horner just won a GT! (OMG!) Now Chris Horner can't get a contract for next year! (OMG again!)

How many people think maybe the TEAM managers think that Chris Horner is saucing and too hot to handle????
If that is the case, then Chris Froome (rhymes with ZOOOOOOOM) should have to go on relief when his current contract expires.

I see Froome's transformation as no less miraculous than Horner's. Horner's has been the more conspicuous because of his advanced age, but transforming water into wine still counts as a miracle, no matter how old the water is.
 
thehog said:
Cookson at work?

Didn't think the panel was allowed to comment.

Nevertheless his assessments appears correct.

Interesting the comment about "subtle" manipulation.

I would agree.
Dunno, I'm no expert but it doesn't sound subtle at all to me. That expert clearly thinks that the trend is not normal UNLESS it's the way Horner's data always moves in GTs, but what about if he always doped? It sounds like he'd want more samples taken in the future? Not very helpful at this point...even if it's the only possible answer.

The article is interesting for that software screening too...not well programmed, eh ? Hadn't heard about Dopestrong not getting reviewed either thanks to that "glitch" in spite of McQuaids claims!

All this is quite confusing and while it's possible Horner would be bluffing, it seems unlikely he'd put his data out there if he had something to hide, like multiple BBs at the Vuelta which is what this expert is clearly hinting at.
 
Aug 30, 2012
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Dazed and Confused said:
JV was probably sitting in a bar somewhere...
Most likely, though the fact he said it, even if then deleted, means he believes it -- especially if he was actually sitting at a bar.

The fact Horner couldn't/hasn't scored a ride yet for 2014 tells me JV isn't the only one who believes such things.
 
Bannockburn said:
Most likely, though the fact he said it, even if then deleted, means he believes it -- especially if he was actually sitting at a bar.

The fact Horner couldn't/hasn't scored a ride yet for 2014 tells me JV isn't the only one who believes such things.
Gotta be pretty naive or a strong fanboy to think Horner rides clean. Leipheimer never rode clean, but JV's comment (taken for granted here) is in line with his own policy (DZ, VdV, Danielson etc). Twitter will quickly deconstruct anybody who calls themselves a manager.
 
Fearless Greg Lemond said:
That comment section is funny!

At last a journalist does his work, kuddos for Stokes.
More to the point the journalist just printed the experts findings.

More concerning it's not just an expert but an actual bio panelist.

The software didn't pick up the profile but the panelists believes it's suspicious?

This will stop anyone ever releasing their bio passport ever.

Horner is doping but this is ridiculous.

Long live secrecy! :rolleyes:
 
thehog said:
More to the point the journalist just printed the experts findings.

More concerning it's not just an expert but an actual bio panelist.

The software didn't pick up the profile but the panelists believes it's suspicious?

This will stop anyone ever releasing their bio passport ever.

Horner is doping but this is ridiculous.

Long live secrecy! :rolleyes:
What I'm saying its a sad indictment on testing in general.

Not even flagged by the bio. Not tested positive despite 20+ tests 2013.

Can anyone actually test positive? For anything?

That's not clean. That's not testing positive.
 
Von Mises said:
How do you know that software did not pick up Horner´s profile?
Well if it did and a panelist reviewed it and said "clean" or requested an explanation and was not taken further. Then it's still a problem.

That's probably worse.

It's not working.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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thehog said:
What I'm saying its a sad indictment on testing in general.

Not even flagged by the bio. Not tested positive despite 20+ tests 2013.

Can anyone actually test positive? For anything?

That's not clean. That's not testing positive.
Thats why the biopass and the offscore are just what it is: propaganda.

Hamilton had an offscore of 132.9 in 2004, no positive. Bandwith doping.
 
May 26, 2010
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Thats why the biopass and the offscore are just what it is: propaganda.

Hamilton had an offscore of 132.9 in 2004, no positive. Bandwith doping.
No no no, it is a cleanER age, we left all that dark era behind, it a new cleanER era, JV says so, Brailsford says so.................:rolleyes:
 
Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Thats why the biopass and the offscore are just what it is: propaganda.

Hamilton had an offscore of 132.9 in 2004, no positive. Bandwith doping.
I'll have to sit down and do the math. But I think I could work out the % chance of testing positive. It would be low.

It almost appears an impossibility to do so even if one tried to test positive!

My understanding is even when you provide a urine sample that it's not tested for every drug, only an "inconsistency". Making it even harder to test positive.

The Wild West days are over but doping and getting away with looks to be fairly straight forward equation.
 
thehog said:
Well if it did and a panelist reviewed it and said "clean" or requested an explanation and was not taken further. Then it's still a problem.

That's probably worse.

It's not working.
Obviously I am speculating, because I have no idea was Horners profile higlighted or not, but it does not work in the way you describe and Parisotto pointed it too. Basically Parisotto said: this profile is suspicious enough to target test Horner, but it is not suspucious enough to declare him doper.

Was he targeted or not, was his profile highligted or not, I do not know.
 
Von Mises said:
Obviously I am speculating, because I have no idea was Horners profile higlighted or not, but it does not work in the way you describe and Parisotto pointed it too. Basically Parisotto said: this profile is suspicious enough to target test Horner, but it is not suspucious enough to declare him doper.

Was he targeted or not, was his profile highligted or not, I do not know.
You're probably right but he was target tested.

He was tested a lot. And they came up with nothing.

If they got him on the last stage in the roadside hotel maybe they would have nabbed their boy.

So the testing is fairly useless because with a passport, target testing they drew a blank.

Regardless I think Horner has self-suspended himself indefinitely :rolleyes:
 
thehog said:
Regardless I think Horner has self-suspended himself indefinitely :rolleyes:
Sounds like self-suspension has kicked-in.

“Chris is a great rider, champion, and person and we wish we could have worked something out,” the company told VeloNation.

“Though we could not find common ground, it is not a reflection of how we feel about Chris whom we greatly respect and admire. All of us wish him the best in the future.”
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/15661/Trek-on-Horner-Chris-is-a-great-rider-and-champion-we-wish-we-could-have-worked-something-out.aspx
 
Apr 20, 2012
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Von Mises said:
What is the relevance of Hamilton´s 2004 offscore (BP did not exist back then).
You do know the offscore is an important thingy in the BP of nowadays?

What that 132.9 of Hamilton says is athletes know how far they can go with their practises. Just like with the 50.999999999% haematocrit rule. Dope till you dont drop dead.

Given Horners' offscore he did just fine, by UCI/WADA standards. Nothing to see. Move along.
 

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