When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

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Sep 25, 2009
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Cycle Chic said:
irondan said:
I know nothing about asthma. Does it come and go or is it always with you? If he had it in 2009 he didn't seem to have it in 2013, unless everyone else had asthma and he didn't.
a valid point and a very good question.

the corticosteroid tue controversy is common in cycling (and other endurance sports run out of doors)... for all intents and purposes, it is a form of legal doping that most get granted and some denied.

i have been following the issue for years and, if memory serves, about 1/3 of all professional elite (wt) riders own a tue for one chemical or another. the absolute majority are, and have been for a while, the exemptions for corticosteroids that upset horner so much...

frankly, given the omnipresence of the legal/sanctioned corticosteroids in the peloton, horner has a point. as always, the poor is easier to ignore than the rich. that said, as cycle chick has already noted, the horner sudden finding of needing a tue at the ripe age of 43 is (or even 41) is strange to say the least.

i could go on about the medical and scientific aspect of the breathing complexities when the lungs are maxed, but the button line is that corticosteroids, even in small' therapeutic' amounts, will improve your oxygen availability and likely any endurance performance, asthmatic or not..

in my opinion, we are dealing here with a real hole in the finite effects of the INDIVIDUAL dozes of corticosteroids (a medical scientific knowledge lack) exploited (and politicized) by the commercial dimension of professional sports. the uci incompetence thus is explainable, but its selective application is loath-able, imo.

not much else to say...
 

Irondan

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python said:
Cycle Chic said:
irondan said:
I know nothing about asthma. Does it come and go or is it always with you? If he had it in 2009 he didn't seem to have it in 2013, unless everyone else had asthma and he didn't.
a valid point and a very good question.

the corticosteroid tue controversy is common in cycling (and other endurance sports run out of doors)... for all intents and purposes, it is a form of legal doping that most get granted and some denied.
That explains why Chris is so pissed off.

He was also blaming the UCI for not giving him a TUE at last years Vuelta? That part didn't make much sense to me because it was his team that held him out of the race, not the UCI.

Shows what his team thought of him too when they keep him out of a race for the MPCC but dumped the MPCC 6 months later for a younger guy. lol

Chris Horner, the Rodney Dangrefield of cycling.. :rolleyes:
 
Horner doesnt win or get good result by a TUE, it could help, yes, but that is something legal, anyway, and I dont know where is the problem, Contador and a lot of riders have a TUE. Horner get his result becouse he is very good and one of the few people able to climb long time up of the bike, what in big slopes is a big advantage.

Acording the good result he done in an era of doping, clearly better than now, it is easy to think he doped in the past, but there is no reason to think he is doping in the last years after BP total implementation (about 2011)
 
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Catwhoorg said:
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Abuse of cortisone OOC is not doping. It should be however, a matter for the legal and medical regulatory authorities though, being a prescription drug in almost every jurisdiction that cycling races occur in.
Just wanted to challenge your claim here.We'd have to actually analyze this on a country-by-country basis to know for sure, but I suspect this assertion of yours is incorrect.

A prescription is not required to obtained corticosteroids in any Latin American country that I'm aware of, thereby undermining claim that it's "a prescription drug in almost every jurisdiction that cycling races occur in", and its use is therefore "a matter for the legal and medical regulatory authorities."

[edit: note that I'm not just referring to oral corticosteroids, but presentations intended for administration by IM or intra-articular]
 
You gotta admit though Horner is a hard nut to be still riding at a good level at his age after all these years.

Look how many pro's started after Horner but are no 95kg sofa warriors.

Horner is the fittest of all the longterm pro's in 2015. Cycling is so cut throat though nobody wants to acknowledge his effort and give him acknowledgment of it. He never got busted but many pro's did and they still have a contract.

I thought Horner would be good for marketing as an 40+ inspo but the reality is most people want to use age as an excuse why they can't do something and every time Horner pins on a number or belts it up a local climb on Strava, haters gonna hate cos they don't want to see someone who is not using age as an excuse.

Give conehead a break. He is a mega inspo from an age perspective. Sure he played the game, so did everyone who wanted to be at that level. Its pro sport, if you want to make the big $ then you have to take what it takes to win the events the sponsors want you to win.
 
Aug 30, 2012
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Taxus4a said:
Horner doesnt win or get good result by a TUE, it could help, yes, but that is something legal, anyway, and I dont know where is the problem, Contador and a lot of riders have a TUE. Horner get his result becouse he is very good and one of the few people able to climb long time up of the bike, what in big slopes is a big advantage.

Acording the good result he done in an era of doping, clearly better than now, it is easy to think he doped in the past, but there is no reason to think he is doping in the last years after BP total implementation (about 2011)
Congratulations. Not much makes me laugh out loud, but you managed to pull it off. Twice.

Horner has gotten his results because he has cheated his whole life. It's about the longest-running non-secret out there. When you're a doper that is so comical that the rest of the dopers find you hilarious...these things become rather elementary.

Except to you, apparently. Keep up the good work.
 
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joe_papp said:
Catwhoorg said:
...
Abuse of cortisone OOC is not doping. It should be however, a matter for the legal and medical regulatory authorities though, being a prescription drug in almost every jurisdiction that cycling races occur in.
Just wanted to challenge your claim here.We'd have to actually analyze this on a country-by-country basis to know for sure, but I suspect this assertion of yours is incorrect.

A prescription is not required to obtained corticosteroids in any Latin American country that I'm aware of, thereby undermining claim that it's "a prescription drug in almost every jurisdiction that cycling races occur in", and its use is therefore "a matter for the legal and medical regulatory authorities."

[edit: note that I'm not just referring to oral corticosteroids, but presentations intended for administration by IM or intra-articular]
Happy to stand corrected.
Certainly my European bias is coming through with this thought.
 
Jul 18, 2014
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I have a serious question. There were always those rumblings that Lance failed tests and things like that. Have there been those same rumblings about Horner? or does most of the hatred come from his performance at an older age. (ie the Vuelta)??
 

Irondan

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Enrico Gimondi said:
I have a serious question. There were always those rumblings that Lance failed tests and things like that. Have there been those same rumblings about Horner? or does most of the hatred come from his performance at an older age. (ie the Vuelta)??
I've never heard that he failed any tests. He don't have anyone covering for him, that's obvious. I think the UCI would love to finally get rid of him, especially if they can prove his results were from doping.
 
No but his freely released blood profile shows to the world that he blood doped his way to a GT win.

Taken in the round, its the proverbial roller coaster.
2013 in detail is pretty damning, both of him, and the whole passport program, as it shows just how useless it is for a 3 week grand tour.
 
Oct 6, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
So why does Horner not get busted by the ABP?

Cookson dont want big names done for doping?
Perhaps the ABP, like other tests, has the parameters for what triggers a "positive" set so high that it excludes false positives, and thus allows a certain amount of doping?

Maybe that's why folks are so pissed at Horner - by releasing his data, he showed the holes in the system.
 
The threshold I believe is "99.9% certainty".

Early in the days of the passport Ross Tucker did a series on it, and that was the standard set at that time.

I would hope they have loosened the standard now, but see no evidence for it.


Additionally the passport limits specifically remain flat, no matter what the athlete is doing.
A completely flat profile during a 3 week grand tour is not normal. A significant gain in HCT in the 3rd week, whilst the ret% is low (so proportion of new RBC being produced) is so far from normal as to deserve the all caps NOT NORMAL.

(If you are not producing new red cells at least faster than your baseline rate, how do you get more red cells as time goes by, except be reinfusion)
 
Oct 6, 2009
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The passport also has massive holes WRT samples taken at altitude or just after returning from altitude. So now teams just stay at altitude camps all season long. Handy, huh?
 
He's Back!
To clean up Lupus

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/horner-signs-with-lupus-racing-team/
After months of uncertainty, Chris Horner has finally found a team for the 2016 season, signing on with the Lupus Racing Team. The news comes days after Slovenian Jure Kocjan, who had been slated to lead the up and coming squad, was provisionally suspended by the UCI after one of his 2012 doping control samples was re-analysed and found positive for EPO. The team fired Kocjan upon hearing the news.
 
May 26, 2010
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TourOfSardinia said:
He's Back!
To clean up Lupus

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/horner-signs-with-lupus-racing-team/
After months of uncertainty, Chris Horner has finally found a team for the 2016 season, signing on with the Lupus Racing Team. The news comes days after Slovenian Jure Kocjan, who had been slated to lead the up and coming squad, was provisionally suspended by the UCI after one of his 2012 doping control samples was re-analysed and found positive for EPO. The team fired Kocjan upon hearing the news.
I guess he was brought on board for his 'experience' and little else.

Horner had 8 course of anti-biotics to clear a chest infection recently and was looking at course number 9 so he aint a healthy 44year old. He aint going to be any good on a bike judging by those lungs full of gunk!
 

Irondan

Administrator
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Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
TourOfSardinia said:
He's Back!
To clean up Lupus

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/horner-signs-with-lupus-racing-team/
After months of uncertainty, Chris Horner has finally found a team for the 2016 season, signing on with the Lupus Racing Team. The news comes days after Slovenian Jure Kocjan, who had been slated to lead the up and coming squad, was provisionally suspended by the UCI after one of his 2012 doping control samples was re-analysed and found positive for EPO. The team fired Kocjan upon hearing the news.
I guess he was brought on board for his 'experience' and little else.

Horner had 8 course of anti-biotics to clear a chest infection recently and was looking at course number 9 so he aint a healthy 44year old. He aint going to be any good on a bike judging by those lungs full of gunk!
Where did you read that he had 8 courses of anti-biotics? Do you have a link Benotti?

I would venture to guess that if after 5 or 6 unsuccessful runs of anti-biotics your body has built up some sort of immunity to the treatment?

8 or 9 try's is just insane, imo.
 
May 26, 2010
28,144
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Re: Re:

Irondan said:
Benotti69 said:
TourOfSardinia said:
He's Back!
To clean up Lupus

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/horner-signs-with-lupus-racing-team/
After months of uncertainty, Chris Horner has finally found a team for the 2016 season, signing on with the Lupus Racing Team. The news comes days after Slovenian Jure Kocjan, who had been slated to lead the up and coming squad, was provisionally suspended by the UCI after one of his 2012 doping control samples was re-analysed and found positive for EPO. The team fired Kocjan upon hearing the news.
I guess he was brought on board for his 'experience' and little else.

Horner had 8 course of anti-biotics to clear a chest infection recently and was looking at course number 9 so he aint a healthy 44year old. He aint going to be any good on a bike judging by those lungs full of gunk!
Where did you read that he had 8 courses of anti-biotics? Do you have a link Benotti?

I would venture to guess that if after 5 or 6 unsuccessful runs of anti-biotics your body has built up some sort of immunity to the treatment?

8 or 9 try's is just insane, imo.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/01/news/agent-horner-wants-to-race-in-2016_393116

Horner told Business Insider in December he was diagnosed with a lung infection in October that’s required nine rounds of antibiotics.
:eek:
 

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