When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

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Nov 8, 2012
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Dr. Maserati said:
Thats what USADA did regarding Hincapie and the Garmin guys. They waited until after they had started proceedings against LA & the others.

The redacted names are either people that have refused to co-operate and who will eventually be heard during the Bruyneel case, or people that there is little or no corroborating evidence against.
It will be interesting then if they can build a case against Horner.

Being selected for the Olympics and World's teams is notably different than how CvV, TD, DZ, LL and GH were handled.

You think he was "rider 15?"
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
It will be interesting then if they can build a case against Horner.

Being selected for the Olympics and World's teams is notably different than how CvV, TD, DZ, LL and GH were handled.

You think he was "rider 15?"
Oh, I have little doubt that he is *Rider 15* and add to that what he is doing now is by any definition "not normal".

But I can also see that what Levi said alone (hearsay) is not worth much.
So unless there was someone who directly saw something (which i don't believe there is from his SD/Astana/RS days) he will probably skate.
 
webvan said:
Some people here seem to have never heard of Bartali, how old was he in 1947? Right...anyway Horner has always been a gifted rider, cycling is an endurance sport, he never was a leader, etc...you feel like vomitting when you see him? Reading your posts makes me sick, you must really have some serious personal issues to post such venom...scary :-(
I seem to recall some event or other that resulted in the field of elite talents in the young adult bracket being weaker than usual in the 1946-48 kind of time?
Moose McKnuckles said:
Pozzovivo took freaking 3rd? What the ****?
Losing weight + gain power = Sky protocol. Pozzovivo is already advantaged because he has no weight to lose, so if he discovers something along similar lines, he just gains power.
Scott SoCal said:
It will be interesting then if they can build a case against Horner.

Being selected for the Olympics and World's teams is notably different than how CvV, TD, DZ, LL and GH were handled.

You think he was "rider 15?"
It's maybe not as obvious as codename "Piti", but there are some guys who've spent the last seven years bouncing from Continental teams in Portugal with similar levels of certainty about them.
 
thehog said:
Today he will have the time trial of his life.

Nice big refill yesterday. He will ride out of his skin.

I remember when Horner rode on saunier duval. They paid him 50k per year.

Hasn't he come a long way. No wonder Ricco is laughing.
Good call...NOT, but I suppose you're now going to tell us that without that huge big refill for which you have rock solid evidence he would have finished 5+ minutes down.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Netserk said:
Levi's testimony:



Given that Chris' name match perfectly in length, and that he was a team mate of Levi in 2008, injured early in 2005 and won a stage in Suisse, I'm quite sure it's him.
Chris Horner "told me" to Levi Leipheimer?

That's pretty thin.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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thehog said:
Today he will have the time trial of his life.

Nice big refill yesterday. He will ride out of his skin.
If Horner refilled yesterday how did he get his blood bag from the US to Spain? In his carry on luggage? He has been in the US for many months.

If he is transfusing a more likely pattern would be a right after Utah when any spike in Hct can be written off to response to altitude.

Will be interesting to see how he performs in the 3rd week
 
Apr 20, 2009
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I think Horner refilled on all the hate on this forum - should be enough to make it through till the next rest day.
 
webvan said:
Good call...NOT, but I suppose you're now going to tell us that without that huge big refill for which you have rock solid evidence he would have finished 5+ minutes down.
I have no evidence. Except that he is crunching it in the mountains. I’m not rooming with the guy.

However I did fully expect him to go full-froome-tard in the ITT.

Lets see how the Vuelta ends up though.

Looking to catch me out won’t rid us of these nasty dopers.
 
thehog said:
I have no evidence. Except that he is crunching it in the mountains. I’m not rooming with the guy.

However I did fully expect him to go full-froome-tard in the ITT.

Lets see how the Vuelta ends up though.

Looking to catch me out won’t rid us of these nasty dopers.
Another way to put it would have been, "I was wrong about his TT performance."

So far we have Horner riding very well with two stage wins by a grand total of about 55 seconds (generously). This from a guy who is known to have been recently racing at altitude and is a pretty darn good bike racer. Both wins had a very clear tactical element, he didn't just blow away a field where everyone was marking him and mainly him.

Is he suspicious? Anyone at age 41 (almost 42) riding this well and riding for the team he's riding for is in my view suspicious.

I personally don't believe anyone is winning GT's clean, nor have they for decades. Maybe Hesjedal in the Giro last year. Maybe.
 
red_flanders said:
Another way to put it would have been, "I was wrong about his TT performance."

So far we have Horner riding very well with two stage wins by a grand total of about 55 seconds (generously). This from a guy who is known to have been recently racing at altitude and is a pretty darn good bike racer. Both wins had a very clear tactical element, he didn't just blow away a field where everyone was marking him and mainly him.

Is he suspicious? Anyone at age 41 (almost 42) riding this well and riding for the team he's riding for is in my view suspicious.

I personally don't believe anyone is winning GT's clean, nor have they for decades. Maybe Hesjedal in the Giro last year. Maybe.
What was the tactical element of riding away from the GC group on umpteen degree slopes?
 
proffate said:
What was the tactical element of riding away from the GC group on umpteen degree slopes?
The argument would be: It was that the other contenders didn't take him seriously and let him go while they marked each other.

The counterargument would be that even when Nibali attacked, he still didn't make up any ground on Horner and the others (who presumably were taking Nibali very seriously) continued to lose ground on Horner after that.
 
Oct 8, 2009
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Y'all are missing the only obvious conclusion that one could arrive at. horners performance PROVES that cycling is now clean because CH, being clean his whole career and never having seen or even heard about doping, is now able to compete with all the dopers since they no longer dope anymore.... Imagine how many tours he would have won had cycling been so clean for the past 15 years.

Duh!
 
lstomsl said:
Y'all are missing the only obvious conclusion that one could arrive at. horners performance PROVES that cycling is now clean because CH, being clean his whole career and never having seen or even heard about doping, is now able to compete with all the dopers since they no longer dope anymore.... Imagine how many tours he would have won had cycling been so clean for the past 15 years.

Duh!
I agree it’s a tragedy.

In years t come he will talk about the years lost to others doping.
 
Aug 3, 2009
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shalgo said:
The argument would be: It was that the other contenders didn't take him seriously and let him go while they marked each other.

The counterargument would be that even when Nibali attacked, he still didn't make up any ground on Horner and the others (who presumably were taking Nibali very seriously) continued to lose ground on Horner after that.
+ This.....
 
drfunk000 said:
I think it's pretty obvious that Horner rode a steady pace while the GC favorites were doing the attack back off attack back off thing.

Since you must not have watched the stage you can read about it here:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/vuelta-a-espana/stage-10/live-report
Why would you "attack / back off" on 15degree slopes where drafting gives negligible advantage? Doesn't matter if you're in front or behind. This is reflected in the power models' drafting condition producing nearly identical power to the non-drafting condition.

It's not like Basso has another trick up his sleeve besides "ride steadily; asphyxiate rivals". You seem to be suggesting that surges in pace sapped the strength of the others, but do you have any evidence to suggest that the other contenders' normalized power was on par with Horner's?
 
Apr 20, 2009
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proffate said:
Why would you "attack / back off" on 15degree slopes where drafting gives negligible advantage? Doesn't matter if you're in front or behind. This is reflected in the power models' drafting condition producing nearly identical power to the non-drafting condition.

It's not like Basso has another trick up his sleeve besides "ride steadily; asphyxiate rivals". You seem to be suggesting that surges in pace sapped the strength of the others, but do you have any evidence to suggest that the other contenders' normalized power was on par with Horner's?
I think it's well known that the fastest way up hill is with an even power output. Unless you know of an uphill TT ridden by accelerations?!?

At the point that Horner rolled off the front we can see the pace in the GC group has let off as dropped riders catch the GC group. So he clearly picked the right time to go.

The relevant sections are 11min and 19:40min. There is no comparison between the Nibali attack and Horner's ride. He was steady all the way up and Nibali absolutely sprints at 19:45.

Additionally, you can see that the GC group was not riding au bloc prior to Nibali's attack as they accelerate (although to a lesser extent than Nibali) after the attack.

http://www.rtve.es/alacarta/videos/vuelta-ciclista-a-espana/ascension-integra-alto-hazallanas/2010149/
 
shalgo said:
The argument would be: It was that the other contenders didn't take him seriously and let him go while they marked each other.

The counterargument would be that even when Nibali attacked, he still didn't make up any ground on Horner and the others (who presumably were taking Nibali very seriously) continued to lose ground on Horner after that.
I'd say from watching it that both those things are true. He got away because of the tactical situation, and stayed away because he's just as strong or slightly stronger on the climbs than the others.

Very different from Armstrong or other recent preposterous dopers who are 100% marked and ride away with ease from the front of the field.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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red_flanders said:
I'd say from watching it that both those things are true. He got away because of the tactical situation, and stayed away because he's just as strong or slightly stronger on the climbs than the others.

Very different from Armstrong or other recent preposterous dopers who are 100% marked and ride away with ease from the front of the field.
Horner's hallmark has always been getting a gap on a steep area and then ride his tempo. That's all he's done, although he can sprint.

As for buying into the idea that he just started training a few weeks before Utah; not having it one bit. He was training strongly months earlier far from prying eyes and controls. Witnesses said he weighed "135 lbs, tops" and looked really fit and healthy a full month before Utah. Didn't Indurain used to go to Colorado to "train altitude" a month prior to the Tour? He came in trained, fresh and probably able to pass any tests give to him. Anyone know if he actually has been tested this Vuelta?
 
Race Radio said:
If Horner refilled yesterday how did he get his blood bag from the US to Spain? In his carry on luggage? He has been in the US for many months.

If he is transfusing a more likely pattern would be a right after Utah when any spike in Hct can be written off to response to altitude.

Will be interesting to see how he performs in the 3rd week
As well as Quintana maybe :cool:
 

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