When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

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May 27, 2012
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BroDeal said:
It is a well known fact that not having a contract before the Vuelta to ride the following year can produce a huge marginal gain. Sometimes that is just what is needed to reveal a rider's hidden potential. It is not unknown for such a rider to change from zig-zagging up climbs to dropping the best climbers in the world.

I don't think anyone should look at Horner and be surprised. This sort of transformation is quite common these days, and we have been assured by team managers like Vaughters and Brailsford that it is a legitimate byproduct of clean cycling.
Posts like this make me want to marry BroDeal.:D
 
May 27, 2012
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Scott SoCal said:
I think we are witness to the rise of a rider who can dominate the Tour for years to come.
And the hits just keep on coming!

After the ridiculous Tour we were forced to endure, it's refreshing for us Americans to be able to spit back the sh!t the Brits spit out in July. Hilarious.

Forza Horner indeed!
 
Dec 27, 2010
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I'm kind of disappointed that Horner is now leading. I think it would've been better for the race if he'd flatted on Naranco and lost a minute then we could've seen quite a show tomorrow. Will Horner do any more than follow Purito and Valverde if Nibali drops off?
 
Jun 18, 2009
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How often would they have been drug testing Horner during his recovery earlier this year? Would it have happened at all?
 
Jul 5, 2011
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Nibali so ****ed off he couldn't even muster a sanitised sound bite, just rode off down the mountain with a face like a slapped ***. Jeez Chris at least have the courtesy to look a bit knackered!
 
ChewbaccaD said:
And the hits just keep on coming!

After the ridiculous Tour we were forced to endure, it's refreshing for us Americans to be able to spit back the sh!t the Brits spit out in July. Hilarious.

Forza Horner indeed!
Eh what about our special relationship ? :D Anyway we learnt from the best ;)
 
My theory...

Armstrong decides to return in 2009, and do it clean. Realizes quickly he is going look silly, especially after Gila and the broken collarbone, so he goes back to the Ferrari well.

Ferrari has some new tricks up his sleeve. Bank the blood, microdose the EPO, but try this/these new drugs/cocktails. They help you lose weight and keep the power. Upside is that they are either undetectable, or not even on the WADA list, so you can claim to be clean.

The new drugs are very expensive, so only the elite have access, and only those who are working with Ferrari (Nibali), or can help Armstrong but not betray the secret (Horner, Levi).

Everyone else uses the "old" methods. Slowly word gets out about the newer compounds, but few can afford them. There is a three-way split in performance between the "clean" riders, the "old school" oxygen vector dopers, and the "new dopers".

Average speeds are down, because the domestiques on normal teams are now clean. In 2011/2012, Sky take it to a new level, and at least encourage the new methods to the Tenerife group.

By 2013, the elite are catching on that they too need to get thin with power. Contador either won't or can't follow. Wiggans doesn't like the risks he had to take in 2012. Cancellara slows or reverses his decline and looks thinner than ever. Riders with enough money and enough weight to lose, benefit the most.

Chris Horner: Domestique for Lance in 2010 in the Tour and still takes 9th. Crashes in the Tour in 2011 following an alien TOC and is out. In 2012, he places in the top 15 after fetching bottles for Frank and Klodi.

My guess is that Horner is using something that is not yet banned, just like Porte, Wiggans, Nibali, and Froome. I'm not convinced the Spanish Armada is using the same thing yet.

I think that the UCI knows what is being used, but is keeping quiet for now, because it isn't yet explicitly banned.

Horner will likely not win another GT, because the gauntlet has been officially thrown down. To win, you must (again) go full genius. The real war begins when Contador throws his hat back in the ring.
 
Aug 7, 2010
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panache said:
My theory...

Armstrong decides to return in 2009, and do it clean. Realizes quickly he is going look silly, especially after Gila and the broken collarbone, so he goes back to the Ferrari well.

Ferrari has some new tricks up his sleeve. Bank the blood, microdose the EPO, but try this/these new drugs/cocktails. They help you lose weight and keep the power. Upside is that they are either undetectable, or not even on the WADA list, so you can claim to be clean.

The new drugs are very expensive, so only the elite have access, and only those who are working with Ferrari (Nibali), or can help Armstrong but not betray the secret (Horner, Levi).

Everyone else uses the "old" methods. Slowly word gets out about the newer compounds, but few can afford them. There is a three-way split in performance between the "clean" riders, the "old school" oxygen vector dopers, and the "new dopers".

Average speeds are down, because the domestiques on normal teams are now clean. In 2011/2012, Sky take it to a new level, and at least encourage the new methods to the Tenerife group.

By 2013, the elite are catching on that they too need to get thin with power. Contador either won't or can't follow. Wiggans doesn't like the risks he had to take in 2012. Cancellara slows or reverses his decline and looks thinner than ever. Riders with enough money and enough weight to lose, benefit the most.

Chris Horner: Domestique for Lance in 2010 in the Tour and still takes 9th. Crashes in the Tour in 2011 following an alien TOC and is out. In 2012, he places in the top 15 after fetching bottles for Frank and Klodi.

My guess is that Horner is using something that is not yet banned, just like Porte, Wiggans, Nibali, and Froome. I'm not convinced the Spanish Armada is using the same thing yet.

I think that the UCI knows what is being used, but is keeping quiet for now, because it isn't yet explicitly banned.

Horner will likely not win another GT, because the gauntlet has been officially thrown down. To win, you must (again) go full genius. The real war begins when Contador throws his hat back in the ring.
Pretty good picture. Methinks there is some gene manipulation afoot.
 
panache said:
I think that the UCI knows what is being used, but is keeping quiet for now, because it isn't yet explicitly banned
Good theories. On the quoted part, we can only hope WADA also know what is being used and are willing to add this to the banned list. Plus that the UCI is now less corrupt than it has been under McQaid and Verbruggen - doubtful?

Then there is the matter of retrospectivity if a substance gets added to the banned list. In Australia some of our AFL and Rugby League football teams are being investigated for illegal use of "peptides" (there is a seperate thread on this). One of these "peptides" in question was only added to the banned list in 2011.

So for Cycling we will have the problem that whatever is being used now was not banned when certain riders were winning Grand Tours in 2012 and 2013. So somebody like Horner or Froome will say they can't be banned as it was not on the list at the time?
 
panache said:
My theory...

Armstrong decides to return in 2009, and do it clean. Realizes quickly he is going look silly, especially after Gila and the broken collarbone, so he goes back to the Ferrari well.

Ferrari has some new tricks up his sleeve. Bank the blood, microdose the EPO, but try this/these new drugs/cocktails. They help you lose weight and keep the power. Upside is that they are either undetectable, or not even on the WADA list, so you can claim to be clean.

The new drugs are very expensive, so only the elite have access, and only those who are working with Ferrari (Nibali), or can help Armstrong but not betray the secret (Horner, Levi).

Everyone else uses the "old" methods. Slowly word gets out about the newer compounds, but few can afford them. There is a three-way split in performance between the "clean" riders, the "old school" oxygen vector dopers, and the "new dopers".

Average speeds are down, because the domestiques on normal teams are now clean. In 2011/2012, Sky take it to a new level, and at least encourage the new methods to the Tenerife group.

By 2013, the elite are catching on that they too need to get thin with power. Contador either won't or can't follow. Wiggans doesn't like the risks he had to take in 2012. Cancellara slows or reverses his decline and looks thinner than ever. Riders with enough money and enough weight to lose, benefit the most.

Chris Horner: Domestique for Lance in 2010 in the Tour and still takes 9th. Crashes in the Tour in 2011 following an alien TOC and is out. In 2012, he places in the top 15 after fetching bottles for Frank and Klodi.

My guess is that Horner is using something that is not yet banned, just like Porte, Wiggans, Nibali, and Froome. I'm not convinced the Spanish Armada is using the same thing yet.

I think that the UCI knows what is being used, but is keeping quiet for now, because it isn't yet explicitly banned.

Horner will likely not win another GT, because the gauntlet has been officially thrown down. To win, you must (again) go full genius. The real war begins when Contador throws his hat back in the ring.
Great post but I dont think that Contador will go all out in his doping anymore, he probably earned enough money to do everything he wants for the rest of his life, same goes for Wiggins aswell
 
Jul 10, 2009
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I agree with that that it must a gene thing, cloning, new superhuman something along those lines. Dara Torres winning at 40 was weird, Voight still winning at 41 was baffling but Horner winning a GT is over the wall. Its physically naturally mathematically IMPOSSIBLE to do it. But Purito has defined the cycling math, "two plus two does not always equal four".

I suspect you cannot use this gene thing for too long without major issues. Those who say Froome reigns for next 100yrs, we'll see. I think Chris knows just 1-2yrs left or a last hurrah in this Vuelta and good bye. So why not get the Kriptonite.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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burning said:
Great post but I dont think that Contador will go all out in his doping anymore, he probably earned enough money to do everything he wants for the rest of his life, same goes for Wiggins aswell
Contador really needs to get on the good stuff next year. Why not? cycling is a freak show anyway.
 
May 27, 2012
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bigcog said:
Eh what about our special relationship ? :D Anyway we learnt from the best ;)
You didn't learn from me. I knew Armstrong was doping before most of the Brits here knew cycling was a competitive sport.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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jilbiker said:
Its physically naturally mathematically IMPOSSIBLE to do it (clean or cleanish).
Exactly.... those who defend Horner (b/c he was a "climbing talent" before, won races in the US and other blabla) always forget he is a grandpa (plus he failed misserably in his first europe stint*). May his numbers (W/Kg, VAM) are plausible if he was 27 or something. But to do it at age 41 is absurd.

* Even if we suggest he failed his first time up in europe b/c he was clean vs. Über-dopers, is absurd too. B/C why then he didn´t have results at least like clean riders Casar or Moncoutie? He should have, since he must be the greatest GT rider of all time.

So after all myths/explanations/theories (that it´s possible to perform like him at age 41) are debunked, there is only two more options. And both say he is doping.
a.) He is doping and thus beating clean riders, or
b.) He is on the most heavy doping program ever to beat other dopers, cleanish & clean riders who are younger than him, and at least showed some GT results before age 38.
 
May 27, 2012
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FoxxyBrown1111 said:
Exactly.... those who defend Horner (b/c he was a "climbing talent" before, won races in the US and other blabla) always forget he is a grandpa (plus he failed misserably in his first europe stint*). May his numbers (W/Kg, VAM) are plausible if he was 27 or something. But to do it at age 41 is absurd.

* Even if we suggest he failed his first time up in europe b/c he was clean vs. Über-dopers, is absurd too. B/C why then he didn´t have results at least like clean riders Casar or Moncoutie? He should have, since he must be the greatest GT rider of all time.

So after all myths/explanations/theories (that it´s possible to perform like him at age 41) are debunked, there is only two more options. And both say he is doping.
a.) He is doping and thus beating clean riders, or
b.) He is on the most heavy doping program ever to beat other dopers, cleanish & clean riders who are younger than him, and at least showed some GT results before age 38.
It's gonna be fun watching him win Sunday. Froome fanboys are going to explode.
 

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