Or just earlier in this very thread?JimmyFingers said:Read an interesting theory on another forum:
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Or just earlier in this very thread?JimmyFingers said:Read an interesting theory on another forum:
maltiv said:Because riding away from everyone on a steep MTF is all about tactics
Good thing Nibali didn't have such good tactics, because when he attacked from the group behind he didn't manage to take back a single second on Horner!
hrotha said:I'd say being able to go at the same pace as Nibali and faster than Valverde & co. after having kept up that level of effort for longer would allow us to say he won because he was, at the very least, one of the two strongest guys that day.
But that's a misdirection, since the original point was that he won simply because of his tactics, not because he was stronger than anyone else. Which you admit is incorrect.Scott SoCal said:Yes. And Horner probably felt that. So tactically going from relatively far from the finish played directly into his strengths.
So using his tactical acumen worked out pretty well for him.
How does that work for Mirador de Lobeira? Also just tactics? Or just the best man when the road goes up?Scott SoCal said:Horner won the stage because he went early. It's that simple.
Tyler'sTwin said:I don't need to. Ashenden is well aware of this.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/sports/cycling/26micro.html?_r=0
Which you'd understand if you took the time to read his studies. You can't argue with reality. EPO-doses that evade detection have a significant performance enhancing effect. That's been PROVEN!
the early 2000’s most of us considered that EPO was used to boost performance, nowadays we believe that EPO is an important masking tool
hrotha said:But that's a misdirection, since the original point was that he won simply because of his tactics, not because he was stronger than anyone else. Which you admit is incorrect.
How do you figure he'd lose to Nibali? He kept up the same pace after having spent more energy. It's not that he was strong. It's that he was arguably the strongest (and at the very least just as strong as Nibali). The original point was this:Scott SoCal said:. I hope you are just yanking my chain here.
All those guys in the finale are strong. Nobody gets to the finale of a MTF that isn't strong. Probably goes without saying, no?
If Horner waits until 3 or 2.5k to go, does he beat Nibali? No is the correct answer.
He won the stage because of his tactics and that was the original point.
But he did overpower the other racers, the only exception being arguably Nibali (and again, a point could be made that he proved to be stronger than him that day too, because again, he kept up the same level of effort for longer).He is very smart and gained his two stage wins largely on tactics rather than overpowering the other racers.
hrotha said:How do you figure he'd lose to Nibali? He kept up the same pace after having spent more energy. It's not that he was strong. It's that he was arguably the strongest (and at the very least just as strong as Nibali). The original point was this:
But he did overpower the other racers, the only exception being arguably Nibali (and again, a point could be made that he proved to be stronger than him that day too, because again, he kept up the same level of effort for longer).
He is very smart and gained his two stage wins largely on tactics rather than overpowering the other racers.
Why the absoluteness?Race Radio said:thanks for the 3 year old article that references a 8 year old study. Good thing Ashenden has clarified his position recently
http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2012/behind-scenes-contador-cas-hearing-michael-ashenden
" said:"Kleine wie ich müssen mit EPO-Mikrodosen arbeiten, obwohl EPO seit Jahren nachweisbar ist."
Mr.38% said:Why the absoluteness?
Translation: Small fish like me have to microdose EPO even if it's been detectable for years.
http://www.nzz.ch/aktuell/sport/uebersicht/natuerlich-haette-ich-weiter-gedopt-1.5614419#
Race Radio said:If they are on the black list, like Di Lucca, there is an increasing likelihood they will get caught
Dont know who Di Lucca is but if referring to Danilo 'il Killer' Di Luca he was tested OOC on the 29th of april. That is if I recall correct.Race Radio said:reality is important.
In the 3 1/2 years since the article you linked was published there have been 2 revisions of the EPO test that have further shrunk the testing window. As Ashenden clearly points out says the small doses of EPO riders are today are largely used to keep their off score correct, not to boost Hct. If they use in competition, like Di Lucca, there is an increasing likelihood they will get caught
Race Radio said:thanks for the 3 year old article that references a 8 year old study. Good thing Ashenden has clarified his position recently
http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2012/behind-scenes-contador-cas-hearing-michael-ashenden
Doc said:micro dosing can beat the testing
micro dosing can beat clean training
what was that ulrich quote
sumthin about if yuh suck at math
it ain’t his problem
Mr.38% said:EPO is being microdosed to mask transfusions (which not everybody does because it's too expensive or complicated or plain too dangerous)...
Mr.38% said:...but still also to increase Hb mass. 500-1000IU are maybe even too much, 200-500IU is more probable these days. And then there is EPO as a recovery drug.
Mr.38% said:The latest positives have been a result of the implementation of MAIIA which is more sensitive to microdosing. MAIIA is in place since earlier this year. No problem though if you train in remote places with only little chances of OOC controls.
Tyler'sTwin said:His 2011 study showed you can get a 10% boost in Hb-mass by shooting 60 iu/kg a week? You're too scientifically illiterate to figure out what the implications are. The EPO-test is nowhere near sensitive enough to make EPO useless as a performance enhancer.
the early 2000’s most of us considered that EPO was used to boost performance, nowadays we believe that EPO is an important masking tool
Race Radio said:Instead of insults I suggest you read what Ashenden said in in 2012, not 2 years ago. He is very clear what EPO microdosing is used for today
You are welcome to ignore this and point to an older study but that does not change the fact that the primary use for EPO microdosing in competition is to keep your off score stable.
Race Radio said:Instead of insults I suggest you read what Ashenden said in in 2012, not 2 years ago. He is very clear what EPO microdosing is used for today
Race Radio said:You are welcome to ignore this and point to an older study but that does not change the fact that the primary use for EPO microdosing in competition is to keep your off score stable.
Tyler'sTwin said:No ****, Sherlock! And the primary use for EPO microdosing OUT OF COMPETITION is to increase Hb mass.
red_flanders said:I don't see how this and what Tyler's Twin is saying are even in conflict.