131313 said:
Very true.
2011, ToC Sierra Road, 16 min 58 sec, 434.4 W. Almost the same as yesterday, but he might be 1kg less now
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Very true.
2011, ToC Sierra Road, 16 min 58 sec, 434.4 W. Almost the same as yesterday, but he might be 1kg less now
131313 said:
But.... but.... but it's been reported that Nibs is off his Giro peak by 15 or 20 watts?
Are you saying there's more to this story?
The fact that Nibali is almost certainly doping himself makes Horners performance even more alien and ridiculous.
Maybe if he was competing against a 100% clean field it could make sense how a juiced to the eyeballs 41 year old could do this.
Maybe if he was competing against a 100% clean field it could make sense how a juiced to the eyeballs 41 year old could do this.
Alphabet said:
21 minutes. Here is some good info on it
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/07/tour-2009-contador-climb.html
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/07/tour-2009-contador-takes-yellow.html
Contador had a tailwind, but so did Horner yesterday
Race Radio said:
Right, so there's only a 4 minute gap. Fair enough to compare Horner and Contador? I know that VAM is influenced by steepness and that Verbier is virtually a pimple compared to Pena Cabarga, but still, I think it's a legit point of discussion.
Does the Vuelta winners test results get sent to a lab a la Contador's Clenbuterol test was? What are the chances of him being caught?
Alphabet said:
And he's in talks to renew with Trek. Imagine the Trek train now: Horner, safely tucked in behind his two super-doms, Frank and Andy.
Alphabet said:
sure
While VAM is interesting there are many variables. W/Kg is far more accurate indicator.
Papi Horner!!!!!
It's already been said, but big, big thanks to the Brits for cleaning up and saving cycling! It now allows us to bag the missing GT from our countries palmarès.
It's already been said, but big, big thanks to the Brits for cleaning up and saving cycling! It now allows us to bag the missing GT from our countries palmarès.
Poursuivant said:
No chance, this is the new clean cycling that we've been hearing so much about.
You can't compare 45 minute climbs to 15 minute climbs. Contador's 20 minute Verbier climb works out to the same values as Horner. This climbing performance definitely makes Horner suspect in the 3rd week of racing. It puts him on par with Froome, Contador, along with all the caught dopers. The same goes for Nibali, Valverde, and Rodriquez. Roche is looking more and more like a doper.
Someone commented earlier about endurance suffering as you get older, that is incorrect, endurance doesn't suffer in fact it may increase, but peak power does decline starting in the mid 30s and the shorter climbs should favor younger riders up to 32-33 years of age at maximum. The steep punchy very short climbs like the Mur de Hoy favor riders than that because pure power wins over prolonged power on those shorter efforts. It's why a guy like Gilbert is not as dominate on those anymore as there is a very small window and why he should probably start concentrating more on 3-4 day to week long stage races to include the classics as experience helps in races such as those.
The only thing going for Horner is his ability to do work day after day which is the product of his training age. However, fatigue works against him as it is harder to recover from bigger efforts as you age and easier to recover when you are younger. The main problem is it is hard to improve your fitness over a 3 week grand tour without starting out riding like a brick anvil up the first couple of climbs at the beginning of the race. Age should lead to greater consistency and less wins against top guys in a 3 week race, while inexperience should show some variations, but more frequent stage wins in races like the Vuelta. I don't see that and the Vuelta peloton seems less clean than the Tour one, but the Vuelta also has shorter faster stages than the tour. For Horner to do this he had to come into the Vuelta with a very high level of fitness which begs the question how is this happening? Is it because he has raced less than anyone else in the race this season? Those are important questions to consider which kind of throws the whole Froome/Wiggins strategies of winning almost everything in site up to the Tour.
Someone commented earlier about endurance suffering as you get older, that is incorrect, endurance doesn't suffer in fact it may increase, but peak power does decline starting in the mid 30s and the shorter climbs should favor younger riders up to 32-33 years of age at maximum. The steep punchy very short climbs like the Mur de Hoy favor riders than that because pure power wins over prolonged power on those shorter efforts. It's why a guy like Gilbert is not as dominate on those anymore as there is a very small window and why he should probably start concentrating more on 3-4 day to week long stage races to include the classics as experience helps in races such as those.
The only thing going for Horner is his ability to do work day after day which is the product of his training age. However, fatigue works against him as it is harder to recover from bigger efforts as you age and easier to recover when you are younger. The main problem is it is hard to improve your fitness over a 3 week grand tour without starting out riding like a brick anvil up the first couple of climbs at the beginning of the race. Age should lead to greater consistency and less wins against top guys in a 3 week race, while inexperience should show some variations, but more frequent stage wins in races like the Vuelta. I don't see that and the Vuelta peloton seems less clean than the Tour one, but the Vuelta also has shorter faster stages than the tour. For Horner to do this he had to come into the Vuelta with a very high level of fitness which begs the question how is this happening? Is it because he has raced less than anyone else in the race this season? Those are important questions to consider which kind of throws the whole Froome/Wiggins strategies of winning almost everything in site up to the Tour.
Beech Mtn said:And he's in talks to renew with Trek. Imagine the Trek train now: Horner, safely tucked in behind his two super-doms, Frank and Andy.
Won't happen, based on Horner's entire career win or loose this weekend the DS will send him right out next year to ride for AS and he will loose 3-4 minutes before Schleck is so far back they give up on him and Chris is free to finish bottom of the top10 somewhere.
Thus it has always been and thus it shall remain.
OH yeah, Chris will do it too, cause he really needs the money.
Hugh Januss said:Won't happen, based on Horner's entire career win or loose this weekend the DS will send him right out next year to ride for AS and he will loose 3-4 minutes before Schleck is so far back they give up on him and Chris is free to finish bottom of the top10 somewhere.
Thus it has always been and thus it shall remain.
OH yeah, Chris will do it too, cause he really needs the money.
I think Andy Schleck is done for. All those stories about him sucking as an amateur are likely true. He cannot reach super-elite performance without being super jacked.
His brother might be a better bet.
Horner needs to go to the Giro. The main contender there may be Evans, another oldie.
BroDeal said:
Porte is going alien mode in that giro. When sky tells you in advance who is going to win they are usually right.
the sceptic said:
I didn't see Wiggins win the Giro this year...
Don't get me wrong - I'm the last person to defend Sky, but that statement doesn't ring true for me.
heart_attack_man said:
I forgot about Alien Porte. Horner might be able to take him.
Wiggins barely counts. He has less strength of character than a four-year-old girl who just lost her dolly.
BroDeal said:
So? what's stop's him form being super jacked? Nothing is stopping Horner. He should just get on the full program again and start kicking ***.
heart_attack_man said:
Wiggins failed big time yes. But Porte winning the giro is written in the stars.
He will be rewarded for his super domestique work in the tour with his own GT win. Just like Froome was.
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