When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

[SHAD0W93]

Being a nice guy has nothing to do with the overall picture. You could say the same about Big Mig or any number of riders.
Sorry, edited to add that personality does have an effect on the entire charade. See Armstrong, for instance.
History would not have been re-written if not for his ego.

Heck he just didn’t have to come back and he was fine.

 

[the delgados]

Heck he just didn’t have to come back and he was fine.

Right?
Imagine if the guy retired and stayed retired.
He would to this day be considered a hero by the vast majority of the public who had absolutely no clue what was going on.
Those who accused him of doping would have been considered pariahs of the community and Lance would still be raking in the dough.
Ego can at times come to bite you in the ass.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I might have changed my screen name to Matt DeCanio and asked him if he still had any "supply."

There might have been another time I changed my screen name to rider 10 and posted. "Thanks for taking the heat for me. "

He didn't miss deleting those.

Nicest dealer, ever.

 

[webvan]

What?

 

[Ripper]

I might have changed my screen name to Matt DeCanio and asked him if he still had any "supply."

There might have been another time I changed my screen name to rider 10 and posted. "Thanks for taking the heat for me. "

He didn't miss deleting those.

Nicest dealer, ever.

More details if you're going to share anything

 

[the delgados]

DirtyWorks: Would it help our cause if the word "please" was attached to inquiries made above?
If so, I'll contribute by asking "please."

 

[Ripper]

I might have changed my screen name to Matt DeCanio and asked him if he still had any "supply."

There might have been another time I changed my screen name to rider 10 and posted. "Thanks for taking the heat for me. "

He didn't miss deleting those.

Nicest dealer, ever.

Having seen/experienced spankings handed out by Pappy back when he raced, not as up close and personal as Tilford, but close enough, I am genuinely curious.

 

[DirtyWorks]

If you take the time to dig through whatever might still be available on the Internet about Matt DeCanio, you might find a claim that Horner was a point of contact for EPO in the U.S. Of course, USA cycling personally attacked DeCannio because, history has proven, US Postal 's (USA Cycling backed pro team) success was due entirely to doping.

One of the things that annoys me about Horner is how he will repeatedly casually claim how little money he made as a pro cyclist, yet has no explanation how exactly, making almost nothing, manages to do quite well in a peloton loaded with dopers and doping. Like all dopers at the time, he can't keep track of his own lies.

The only reason I'm back on this thread was watching good ole' Chris's summary of the 2021 Vuelta stage. Thanks to youtube's recommendation algorithm, it queues up this this gem where he admits there were two tiers of "preparation" for grand tours (circa 2006).

View: https://youtu.be/XiaapSD85SA The end gets wierd. The mental gymnastics are ridiculous.

Nonsense like that gets me as fired up despite it being ancient history. If you are a newer reader and never heard the USADA "rider 15" story about Horner, Cyclingnews covered it very well.

In summary, another liar that can't keep track of his own lies. Nice guy in person, though.

Papp seems to check in whenever there's an opportunity to make himself look a little better. Maybe he has some information to share? Thoughts Joe?
,
And I mis-remembered... Chris might have been "rider 15", or not...

 

[DirtyWorks]

Here's a shortcut for you all to get started.

Google the following: 'Matt Decannio' 'Chris Horner'

Pay attention to the quotes. You need both sets.

Your first couple of results should be a NY Times story, (Thank you Juliet Mancur for all of your work on the story.) then a link to a post in velorooms. You should read both. There are more results that are worth checking out. But, that will get you all started.

 

[IzzyStradlin]

More details if you're going to share anything

In his years dominating nrc it is widely rumored that he was also one of the main epo dealers in the us peloton. spent his early days with the klasnas who ran a similar racket

 

[Rackham]

It's kind of ironic how I never really thought about Chris Horner much when he was a rider. Sure that Vuelta was amazingballs but others at the time also did some stratospheric stuff as well. Even the age factor didn't seem too wild considering it's the era of sportsmen going way longer than usual (even now in other sports like tennis where a 40 year old Federer would still be playing if his body allowed it).

But now after watching Horner's podcast since last year & reading/hearing some stuff (including googling & reading that New York Times article just a few minutes ago), I'm now a total defender/supporter of the guy. He clearly lives/breathes cycling & even if he did venture head-first into the dark arts of pharmaceuticals, he's just another archetype of the A-Typical rider in the 2000's who did whatever everyone did in his era to succeed as a pro. Nothing more to see there.

I think in our era where guys like Ivan Basso can run an actual cycling team which competes (& wins stages) in the Giro, I say Chris Horner deserves a happy retirement & do whatever he wants to do without getting singled-out among his peers for whatever he did in his cycling career.

Just my opinion.

 

[Pontiac]

It's kind of ironic how I never really thought about Chris Horner much when he was a rider. Sure that Vuelta was amazingballs but others at the time also did some stratospheric stuff as well. Even the age factor didn't seem too wild considering it's the era of sportsmen going way longer than usual (even now in other sports like tennis where a 40 year old Federer would still be playing if his body allowed it).

But now after watching Horner's podcast since last year & reading/hearing some stuff (including googling & reading that New York Times article just a few minutes ago), I'm now a total defender/supporter of the guy. He clearly lives/breathes cycling & even if he did venture head-first into the dark arts of pharmaceuticals, he's just another archetype of the A-Typical rider in the 2000's who did whatever everyone did in his era to succeed as a pro. Nothing more to see there.

I think in our era where guys like Ivan Basso can run an actual cycling team which competes (& wins stages) in the Giro, I say Chris Horner deserves a happy retirement & do whatever he wants to do without getting singled-out among his peers for whatever he did in his cycling career.

Just my opinion.

Perfect and agree 100%

I know this is the clinic and everyone is guilty....but jeez the guy hasn't raced in how many years??

I thought I knew quite a bit about racing tactics, but I've learned a lot listening to his reports...good stuff.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I'm now a total defender/supporter of the guy.

Are you going to dope your kid if they showed any kind of talent in cycling? Because that's what you are condoning. And it's the only way if you permit wholesale cheating.


Red lights at intersections are for suckers.

without getting singled-out among his peers

He's not a special cheater.

42 year old grand tour winners happen ALL. THE. TIME. Just look at the history of the grand tours. Plenty of forty-something winners. Oh, wait. No.

I like the way he talks so confidently from the comfort of his couch and tacitly admits to doping. Nice guy, though.

 

[TMJ]

In one Chris Horner interview I've seen he made a big deal about (in his view) his results dramatically improving once stricter testing came in.
The biological passport came in around 2008 and in 2013 he memorably won the Vuelta five weeks short of his 42nd birthday.
His argument was obviously that he was a clean rider and once the doping was reduced the rest of the peloton came back towards him and he was able to shine.

 

[Rico044]

His argument was obviously that he was a clean rider and once the doping was reduced the rest of the peloton came back towards him and he was able to shine.

I think Horner blood doped during the Vuelta he won, but that aside.....I do think some riders of the 90s/early2000s quit doping once the heat got turned up with the bio-passport, and they continued to have success as "clean" riders. I could see that making them think that they are naturally talented, but my theory is that they were benefiting from years of jet fueled racing. Christian Vande Velde comes to mind....4th in the tour? Yea right. He was the beneficiary of a decade of doping motor pacing. I think JV was aware of this benefit, and that is part of why he would hire ex dopers.

 

[roundabout]

In one Chris Horner interview I've seen he made a big deal about (in his view) his results dramatically improving once stricter testing came in.
The biological passport came in around 2008 and in 2013 he memorably won the Vuelta five weeks short of his 42nd birthday.
His argument was obviously that he was a clean rider and once the doping was reduced the rest of the peloton came back towards him and he was able to shine.

Did he say anything why he could end up only with Lampre after the 2013 Vuelta?

One would imagine that after this ride here

CQ Ranking - Vuelta a España, Stage 10 : Torredelcampo - Guejar Sierra/Alto de Hazallanas

CQ Ranking is the world's leading cycling ranking and extensive results database. Also known as Cycling Quotient.

cqranking.com

there would have been a queue of teams after his signature

I do seem to recall that he overplayed his hand and wanted a 7-figure multi-year deal, but I do wonder how much genuine interest was there. At least from Horner's side of the story.

 

[Ripper]

Are you going to dope your kid if they showed any kind of talent in cycling? Because that's what you are condoning. And it's the only way if you permit wholesale cheating.


Red lights at intersections are for suckers.



He's not a special cheater.

42 year old grand tour winners happen ALL. THE. TIME. Just look at the history of the grand tours. Plenty of forty-something winners. Oh, wait. No.

I like the way he talks so confidently from the comfort of his couch and tacitly admits to doping. Nice guy, though.

Thanks for the added info. Did the search, read a few articles and links.

Horner has always been an interesting bird. He absolutely smashed some races I've been in and it is just unreal to see someone take off in a certain way. What way might you ask? Well, think of a good, sharp little climb. Small ring for most folks, and VO2 type duration (4-6 minute type thing). Everyone is red lined. Then he big rings it and, while smiling, just rides away.

Also interesting - the guy can race crits. Not the normal thing you think of when you think of TdF climber. Pretty sure Schleck would get lapped quickly in a crit

Anywho, not surprised about charging. But interesting info about possibly dealing. I never dug around enough to hear/read about that. Also, I never raced in those races, so never got that type of inside scoop.

 

[the delgados]

DirtyWorks:
Horner does not deny anything regarding doping. He delicately skirts around the issue by not saying a word about it. He knows it would be a bad idea on many levels; but he knows what we all know. He's not stupid. He knows we know everyone is/was on the gear.
Please expand on what Matt DeCaniio has to do with any of this. I mean, I get it when you say MD was a clean rider whose career was ruined by complicity. From what little I know, the guy was a top level talent who refused to use PED's. Good for him. I don't mean to pry -- you obviously have a choice to not respond -- but I can't help but doing so.

Edited to add that he went into great detail about the Landis solo victory stage at the Tour. He said Floyd took off like he was on a motorbike and was never to be seen again. Meanwhile the chasers, including him and Cadal Evans were gasping for breath until the finish line.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

all these years and i don't think i have ever commented upon horner.............

of course it is so likely he doped.....but he has managed to fly well under the radar for so

long probably cos?.....he seems so dull........and hardly anyone cares (well to me?)

Mark L

It's because it's so obvious. There's no debate to be had. Everyone knows he juiced his whole career and particularly in the latter parts

 

[ppanther92]

It's because it's so obvious. There's no debate to be had. Everyone knows he juiced his whole career and particularly in the latter parts

Yeah, just wanted to write the same - there is just no debate. Ofc he prepared big time for his Vuelta win and ofc he was not clean during his career.

But at the same time I have nothing against him. I am basically indifferent, and if there are people who like to watch his videos - why not?

 

[norgeboi]

Yeah, just wanted to write the same - there is just no debate. Ofc he prepared big time for his Vuelta win and ofc he was not clean during his career.

But at the same time I have nothing against him. I am basically indifferent, and if there are people who like to watch his videos - why not?

Actually there is a debate. I remember Chris when he first came to LA. he had no money and slept on the floor of Bikesport bikeshop in Canoga Park. The guy had no money for dope but he was an animal on the bike. There was a crit in Orange County> There were quite a few good pro teams there. Horner was just a crazy kid with a ponytail down to his behind. Other riders hated him because he was a pest who would not quit. I was next to The LA sheriffs squad when they were getting final instructions and the DS said "do NOT underestimate horner" All through the race Horner would go on solo breaks and get caught. Then in the last few laps Sheriffs set up their train. Jeff Pierce was in there after his tour stage win and they were all working for Malcolm Elliot. Single file strung out and then here comes the pest on the other side of the road. Sheriffs start dropping like flies trying to real him in. He completely destroys the leadout and gets caught with a mile to go. But he sticks in the group and makes the podium in the field sprint. The Sheriff DS is livid after the race, his riders had no respect for Horner. But Horner put ever pro to shame in that race. Living out of his car, sleeping on the floor of a bikeshop. No money for drugs. He was just an awesome talent but people who don't know just flame his rep. The other riders talked smack about him because they were juiced and he still beat them. He made them all look like losers.

 

[joe_papp]

Actually there is a debate. I remember Chris when he first came to LA. he had no money and slept on the floor of Bikesport bikeshop in Canoga Park. The guy had no money for dope but he was an animal on the bike. There was a crit in Orange County> There were quite a few good pro teams there. Horner was just a crazy kid with a ponytail down to his behind. Other riders hated him because he was a pest who would not quit. I was next to The LA sheriffs squad when they were getting final instructions and the DS said "do NOT underestimate horner" All through the race Horner would go on solo breaks and get caught. Then in the last few laps Sheriffs set up their train. Jeff Pierce was in there after his tour stage win and they were all working for Malcolm Elliot. Single file strung out and then here comes the pest on the other side of the road. Sheriffs start dropping like flies trying to real him in. He completely destroys the leadout and gets caught with a mile to go. But he sticks in the group and makes the podium in the field sprint. The Sheriff DS is livid after the race, his riders had no respect for Horner. But Horner put ever pro to shame in that race. Living out of his car, sleeping on the floor of a bikeshop. No money for drugs. He was just an awesome talent but people who don't know just flame his rep. The other riders talked smack about him because they were juiced and he still beat them. He made them all look like losers.

He was an absolute beast even before he turned pro. First time we raced together was, iirc, in 1994, at a series of domestic races. Not the best bike handler, but simply ferocious. I wish I'd had his talent and tenacity lol

 

[Cloxxki]

Beast + dope = mega bucks.

 

[roundabout]

ok, you convinced me, being good in a random crit in the USA is the sign of potential future greatness,

this is even better than the occasional 'he won the hills competition in a 2.2 race somewhere so he always had the talent to be a top climber' argument

 

[Pontiac]

Come on guys.

We all know there is a doping problem in the sport, but that does not mean every good rider out there is doping. Why is it so hard to admit that talent and drive are the biggest factors in success in the sport? It used to drive me nuts when I raced...."oh he crushed us again...he's doping for sure".