Where does the Olympic Road Race rank in prestige?

[Zam_Olyas]

http://www.sporza.be/permalink/1.515337


Race summary.

Thanks.

....

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

It will be the tenth most important and prestigious road race of 2012, behind the three Grand Tours, the five Monuments and the World RR. I'd give it the edge over the other Classics and the best of the one week races.

 

[plooton]

One for the superb race. There must be some Londoner in the thread.

 

[phanatic]

I hear it's in London and Cav's the favourite. I voted insignificant; Sammy had a great win, but it's best to take these editions day by day.

 

[Caruut]

One for the superb race. There must be some Londoner in the thread.

A Londoner who loves Samu.

 

[Caruut]

Hitch, surely you know what people mean by "in cycling".

For those that watch racing for a lot of the year, pay attention to results, dream of riding famous sections of the top races, the Olympics is not the pinnacle of the sport.

For people who do not follow cycling, Paris-Roubaix has no meaning. They would probably think Liége and Bastogne were in France, and that the Tour of Flanders sounded like an expensive pub crawl for people really into their beers. If asked what sounded more prestigious, Liége-Bastogne-Liége or Paris-Bruxelles, they would probably pick the latter - between two major world cities, it makes sense if you don't know otherwise. An Olympic gold is something, however, that sports fans everywhere can understand.

Now that both points have been made, I think my answer would have to be "It depends from whose point of view you're looking at". Do you want to be remembered a little by everyone, or a lot by the cycling fans? Not saying either is better, but it's certainly different.

 

[Parrulo]

Samuel Sanchez wasn't exactly a giant of the sport in 2008 either.

World championship is bigger in the cycling world.

he probably isn't a giant of the sport even now after his olympic gold. he is one of my favourite riders but he has neither a GT win, nor monument win, nor a rainbow jersey.

and hitch's argument is massively flawed, the olympics are raced every 4 years and so far there have been 3 or 4 races done by the pro's so ofc there have been less chances of fluke winners, but we have had fluke podium places.

i voted below the GT's and the monuments

 

[The Hitch]

and hitch's argument is massively flawed, the olympics are raced every 4 years and so far there have been 3 or 4 races done by the pro's so ofc there have been less chances of fluke winners, but we have had fluke podium places.

well done, youve attacked a peripheral argument made 3 pages in, in response to another comment.

Have any response to the central argument, which is that riders get far more out of an olympic gold medal than they do from any monument, and in fact from multiple monuments?

he has neither a GT win, nor monument win, nor a rainbow jersey.

Now that, that right there is a flawed argument. Arguing that monuments are better based on a pre-made assertion that monuments are better. What perfect logic.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Below, but it will likely become bigger in the future.

 

[El Pistolero]

World champion of 2012 will get more media attention in 2013 than the Olympic champion(if we assume they both have similar seasons).

Rainbow jersey is very important. And like I said in another thread, it's the third most important event on the calendar.

Olympic gold in many cases is just 5 minutes of fame. Does anyone remember Jan Ullrich because he won the Olympics? No we remember him because he won the Tour and got second to Lance a lot of times.

 

[The Hitch]

Hitch, surely you know what people mean by "in cycling".

For those that watch racing for a lot of the year, pay attention to results, dream of riding famous sections of the top races, the Olympics is not the pinnacle of the sport.

For people who do not follow cycling, Paris-Roubaix has no meaning. They would probably think Liége and Bastogne were in France, and that the Tour of Flanders sounded like an expensive pub crawl for people really into their beers. If asked what sounded more prestigious, Liége-Bastogne-Liége or Paris-Bruxelles, they would probably pick the latter - between two major world cities, it makes sense if you don't know otherwise. An Olympic gold is something, however, that sports fans everywhere can understand.

Now that both points have been made, I think my answer would have to be "It depends from whose point of view you're looking at". Do you want to be remembered a little by everyone, or a lot by the cycling fans? Not saying either is better, but it's certainly different.

Even among the most diehard cycling fans. For 4 years, any time any commentator has seen Samu in the peloton its "the olympic champion".

And it will be the same with whoever follows him.

With Iglynski 2 years down the line it will be "didn't he win one of the Ardennes classics once"?

As to the in cycling vs outside cycling, first of all it isnt black and white.

There are hardcore cycling fans like Jakob and Madrazo on here, who know who the best u16 riders are from every country, then fans like many on here who pay attention to every pro race, fans who watch only races available on tv, fans who watch only gts, fans who watch only classics, fans who watch the Tour and occasionally other races, fans who watch Tour and worlds, fans who only watch tour but keep up to date with other races through wikipedia etc etc etc.

At which point is someone in cycling, at which point are they out?

And if it is the case that cyclists would rather win an olympic gold than a monument (which is very clearly the case), then why are monuments more important to cycling fans?

Isn't there a bit of a gap there. Maybe cycling fans are behind the time then.

 

[Parrulo]

well done, youve attacked a peripheral argument made 3 pages in, in response to another comment.

Have any response to the central argument, which is that riders get far more out of an olympic gold medal than they do from any monument, and in fact from multiple monuments?



Now that, that right there is a flawed argument. Arguing that monuments are better based on a pre-made assertion that monuments are better. What perfect logic.

i don't even know what a peripheral argument is to be honest. also what is the relevance of being "3 pages in" to me this is still the first page of the thread. . . .

Anyway as it has been said by many people riders get more from an olympic gold because it's more main media friendly not because it is more prestigious as a cycling event.

And yes monuments are more prestigious then the olympic race in my opinion simply because they have much more tradition and a much better atmosphere then any olympic race will ever have, or do you think that the pequim olympic race had a good atmosphere with a couple hundred people paid by the government to be at the side of the road?

 

[The Hitch]

. Does anyone remember Jan Ullrich because he won the Olympics? No we remember him because he won the Tour and got second to Lance a lot of times.

The point has already been aknowledgede that the olympics werent as prestigious then as they are now.

You are beating a dead horse if you want to go down that line.

But if you want to go back to 2000 we can. Lets see Ullrich 1st. One of the best cyclists of the generation.

Did he give a toss about the monuments?
No.

Kloeden 3rd. Another top gt rider. Did he give a toss about the monuments.

No.

It seems if you want to get the best out of many great gt riders in 1 day races, it needs to be olympics or worlds.

Same as how Cancellara is a climbing extraordinaire in Mendrisio and Beijing, but cant be arsed in Lombardy or liege.

Rainbow jersey is very important. And like I said in another thread, it's the third most important event on the calendar.

You seem to have a high opinion of yourself if you are going to use this - I said it so its true, line of argument.

Duh, you think worlds is bigger. Belgium sucks at olympics so you hate it.

Olympic gold in many cases is just 5 minutes of fame.

Dumbest argument ever. Indurain is still getting more out of his 1996 tt gold than Nuyens is from his Rvv win last year.

 

[The Hitch]

i don't even know what a peripheral argument is to be honest. also what is the relevance of being "3 pages in" to me this is still the first page of the thread. . . .

Anyway as it has been said by many people riders get more from an olympic gold because it's more main media friendly not because it is more prestigious as a cycling event.

And yes monuments are more prestigious then the olympic race in my opinion simply because they have much more tradition and a much better atmosphere then any olympic race will ever have, or do you think that the pequim olympic race had a good atmosphere with a couple hundred people paid by the government to be at the side of the road?

Dont really disagree with anything there.

I agree about the atmosphere. Mostly for Flanders, not so much PR or Lombardy or MSR. A bit LBL. Still all monuments had way better atmosphere than 2008 ORR.

London though will have a better atmosphere, but still cant beat Flanders.

And obviously monuments are lightyears ahead in tradition.

So for you for those reasons you prefer monuments. Fair enough, its an admirable opinion, and good to see fans place so much in tradition.

For me the ORR is more prestitgious, now, because it means more to the cyclists themselves.

 

[El Pistolero]

Indurain is a five time Tour winner and two time Giro winner. Do you really want to compare him to Nick Nuyens here.

Samuel Sanchez isn't exactly a big winner either you know. As for you dissing the Monuments, now that's the silliest argument I've ever heard. Let's take a look at the podium shall we:

1. Samuel Sanchez: rides the Ardennes and Lombardia practically every season.
2. Davide Rebellin: rode the Ardennes and Lombardia practically every season. He's a classics specialist.
3. Fabian Cancellara: rides the cobbled classics and world championship every season. He's a classics specialist.
4. Alexandr Kolobnev: rides the Ardennes and Lombardia every season. He's a classics specialist.

We all know Samuel Sanchez isn't good enough to win Liège-Bastogne-Liège. Stop acting as if the Olympic road race in 2008 is similar to LBL or Lombardia. Cancellara got dropped on the hills and came back in the descent and flat part of the race(how many times have we seen the race get back together after the Cote de Saint Nicholas?). Besides, he was there as well at a hilly world championship, so that destroys your argument in favor for the Olympics as well. Cancellara hasn't ridden the hilly monuments because he can't peak for both the cobbled monuments and the hilly monuments at the same time.

Oh, and if I wasn't mistaken we have some of the biggest favorites this year for the Olympic road race, so that argument doesn't make much sense either. In fact, I'm very confident we'll get a medal at the road race.

 

[Fetisoff]

Well, I guess the question here is where would the cyclists themselves rank the Olympics road race among other important races in the season. For fans, well as it's been said before - there are probably as many opinions as there are fans out there. I mean in Russia, for example, 99% of people following sports in general will rank a track win in Olympics above a Giro win FFS.

As for the riders themselves, I'm almost sure that there is no uniform view on this across the peloton. Probably depends a lot on the rider's background too. For most riders coming from countries with rich cycling traditions, like Italy, Spain, Belgium, a monument win might be much more important than an Olympics victory. For someone from Russia, for example, with most riders coming through track background and no races with rich traditions, Olympics win might be right up there with Giro/Vuelta win, only below TDF win.

I guess all I'm saying is - there cannot be a uniform view on this neither among fans, nor among the peloton.

For myself personally, I probably rank it equal to winning a monument or Giro, above winning Vuelta and other classics, but that's just my view.

Anyway, I guess I'm interfering with another Hitch/Pistoleto clash, so I will just post this and quietly walk away from this thread

 

[The Hitch]

That is like saying football fans are behind the times so(which they are not). Football fans don`t care about an Olympic Gold. The Premiership and the FA cup are more important to the football fans in England than a gold for team GB .

In football the reward for winning an olympic gold is nothing, compared to winning the FA Cup.

Its a relatively minor event at the olympics, there are bigger football events going on, its limited to under 23.

For someone who is in the news every day, instantly recognisable on the street, gets a couple hundred thousand squid a week, lives in a mansion, a team olympic gold at u23 level will not be worth much.

For cyclists on the other hand, nice house potentially in a well to do area but needing another job after retirement but no major money or fame.

Offer such a person a phonecall from the President, prime time news coverage for a day, front page on national newspapers the next day, no doubt to be plastered all over the walls back home, a state greeting upon arrival back home, some fame among the local population, a 30 000 squid bonus and some potential small advertising revenue.

It means the world.

 

[The Hitch]

Indurain is a five time Tour winner and two time Giro winner. Do you really want to compare him to Nick Nuyens here.
)

No. I was just ridiculing your idea that olympic gold is 5 minutes while monuments last longer.

I used indurain cos it was someone who won a gold a long time ago.

The fact that Samu still gets called "the olympic champion" everytime he appears on screen, puts an end to this dumb idea.

 

[The Hitch]

For most riders coming from countries with rich cycling traditions, like Italy, Spain, Belgium, a monument win might be much more important than an Olympics victory.

Definately not Spain.

 

[El Pistolero]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Piq2tTv1mII

Owh, and as for Paris-Roubaix not having much atmosphere...

It has the most crazy crowds you'll ever see.

 

[Fetisoff]

Definately not Spain.

I was actually going to write "France", but somehow "Spain" came out. But to this you might say that I'm wrong on that too, and you might be 100% right, I don't know too many people, let alone cycling fans, from either of those two countries

 

[Fetisoff]

I am sure if Samu won one of the monuments a cycling commentator would say he is a winner of one of them just as much if not more than an Olympic champion.

Of course they are always going to say he is an Olympic Champion as he has`nt won a monument before.

Well, if he won LBL, for example, they would probably mention it during LBL and other Ardennes classics, but not TDF or Tour of Basque Country.

 

[The Hitch]

I am sure if Samu won one of the monuments a cycling commentator would say he is a winner of one of them just as much if not more than an Olympic champion.

.

Right. So if the argument Pistrollero made is "monuments are better because Olympics is only 5 minutes", and it in fact turns out riders are still living off it 4 years later, then his argument goes down the toilet.

Right?

 

[Froome19]

Just look at how many riders are making it the primary focus of their season....

That says something about how high they rank it in terms of prestige.
Are they the definitive source on how a prestigious a race is?
I would say the riders are not. But they are certainly the best indication.

 

[El Pistolero]

Just look at how many riders are making it the primary focus of their season....

That says something about how high they rank it in terms of prestige.
Are they the definitive source on how a prestigious a race is?
I would say the riders are not. But they are certainly the best indication.

I haven't seen a different attitude of many cyclists so far this season. Cancellara, Boonen, Gilbert, Wiggins, Nibali, Cavendish, Freire, Sagan, Joaquim Rodriguez, Cadel Evans, etc are all riding pretty much the same program as last year.

Of course most of them will ride, it's not like there's another race going on at that time and they all want to experience the Olympics at least once. Does it make the race more prestigious? Don't think so. I'm pretty sure this year's Olympic champion will have been on the podium of Milan-San Remo in the past.

Guys like Wiggins and Evans only ride the road race because they want to do the time trial.

I mean, is there anyone here who really believes Samuel Sanchez is more famous than Mark Cavendish, Alberto Contador, Cadel Evans, Fabian Cancellara or Tom Boonen?