Which rider is underrated/overrated?

[thehook]

Great Thread!

Wiggo to me was overrated. However with his PR ride. To me he is becoming more popular. Being the Anti-Froome. So I can see him now going into the underrated cat.

Sagan has a lot to prove this season. His '14 campaign despite the green jersey is not going to cut it in the future. So as of now=overated.

TJV to me was overrated going into this years Tour. However his final result aside.. I think I saw a rider grow into being a leader. So his stock is pointing up to me. Curious to see how '15 tour and its lack of TT will hurt/help him? His youth is a huge asset now.

GVA, to me is way underrated. That guy is always in the photo. He can ride for my team any day!

Gilbert, had a really nice end of season. However he to me is in the same boat as Froome (clinic edit). His stock is on the down. And he is now overrated.

Purito, How can this guy be overrated? Guy is a fighter! Losing his top end punch. But always battles.

Valverde, Wheelsucker & Compiler. Longevity wise doing well. GC winner now? No overrated.

Nibs, Dude has won GT's! Nats, a made noise in some classics. Not Overrated! Well deserved "PROPS"

EL Pistolero = The MF'ing MAN.

 

[ralphbert]

I can only shake my head when people say Cancellara is over rated. Have they never watched the spring classics? He was pretty much jaw dropping in 2010 and not much less in 2013. The most often sited reason for his performances was a motor in his bike.

 

[sir fly]

Contador is certainly the most overrated rider by a large margin.
The guy has never shown anything notable in the Classics, hasn't won the Tour for five years, strengthens his reputation by winning insignificant week long races, and despite all of that he's considered as one of the greatest cyclists.
On the other hand, Jean-Christophe Péraud is the most underrated cyclist, for sure.
He's never a subject of any race discussion, literally doesn't exist in the speculations, but has been on the Tour podium and in doing so he has beaten some riders incomparably more prominent in the discussions.

 

[Jspear]

Contador is certainly the most overrated rider by a large margin.
The guy has never shown anything notable in the Classics, hasn't won the Tour for five years, strengthens his reputation by winning insignificant week long races, and despite all of that he's considered as one of the greatest cyclists.
On the other hand, Jean-Christophe Péraud is the most underrated cyclist, for sure.
He's never a subject of any race discussion, literally doesn't exist in the speculations, but has been on the Tour podium and in doing so he has beaten some riders incomparably more prominent in the discussions.

JCP?? Here check out his stats profile. You will see that he is not underrated at all.

http://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/Jean_christophe_Peraud-Details

 

[sir fly]

JCP?? Here check out his stats profile. You will see that he is not underrated at all.

http://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/Jean_christophe_Peraud-Details

That's what I'm saying. He's results are far from to be underrated, but somehow he's not adequately perceived by the audience and colleagues - underrated.

 

[Jspear]

That's what I'm saying. He's results are far from to be underrated, but somehow he's not adequately perceived by the audience and colleagues - underrated.

His results are nothing special at all. Besides his 2nd place in this Tour what has he done? Nothing.

 

[sir fly]

His results are nothing special at all. Besides his 2nd place in this Tour what has he done? Nothing.

Do you know since when he's riding on the road?

 

[Jspear]

Do you know since when he's riding on the road?

2009 I think. Do you know how old he is?

 

[nhowson]

His results are nothing special at all. Besides his 2nd place in this Tour what has he done? Nothing.

Criterium International?

Also, he didn't figure in a lot of top 10 predictions for this year's tour and even with Froome/Contador he would have come 4-6th.

 

[sir fly]

2009 I think. Do you know how old he is?

Yes, I do.
And that's another thing regarding him that should lift his reputation. Some other riders of his age have better reputation just because of the age without similar results.
So, Péraud's career before the road, one of the more successful transitions on the road we can recall and his age deserve much more credit than he gets.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Do you know since when he's riding on the road?

I do agree that JCP is underrated. He's been very good since his transiotion into a road racer. If he'd done this earlier, who knows he might have even challenged for a GT.

But about your opinion on Contador. The reason for him not winning the Tour for 5 years now is probably known to you. A ban, a "bad" comeback year, and a crash. True he's never done anything of significance in the classics, but has anyone ever rated him as a classics rider seriously? I'd agree that he is the weakest of all 5+ GT winners palamres wise, but who ever rated him higher than the other guys on that list? Noone I guess.

And it's just not the case that he only won meaningless one weak long races and meaningless two Vueltas. That opinion just reflects a lack of appreciation of those exact competitions. What's special about Contador is that he usually always rides to win stuff, that he's never seriously tried to win one Lombardia or the Doyenne is sad, but it doesn't make him overrated. No one ever put him in the greatest of all times category. That's excluding La Floreticia of cours.

 

[Jspear]

Yes, I do.
And that's another thing regarding him that should lift his reputation. Some other riders of his age have better reputation just because of the age without similar results.
So, Péraud's career before the road, one of the more successful transitions on the road we can recall and his age deserve much more credit than he gets.

I think he is rated right where he should be. I don't think people underrate him or make light of what he has done - but he also doesn't get hyped around here. I think that's how he should be looked.

 

[sir fly]

I do agree that JCP is underrated. He's been very good since his transiotion into a road racer. If he'd done this earlier, who knows he might have even challenged for a GT.

But about your opinion on Contador. The reason for him not winning the Tour for 5 years now is probably known to you. A ban, a "bad" comeback year, and a crash. True he's never done anything of significance in the classics, but has anyone ever rated him as a classics rider seriously? I'd agree that he is the weakest of all 5+ GT winners palamres wise, but who ever rated him higher than the other guys on that list? Noone I guess.

And it's just not the case that he only won meaningless one weak long races and meaningless two Vueltas. That opinion just reflects a lack of appreciation of those exact competitions. What's special about Contador is that he usually always rides to win stuff, that he's never seriously tried to win one Lombardia or the Doyenne is sad, but it doesn't make him overrated. No one ever put him in the greatest of all times category. That's excluding La Floreticia of cours.

So, a ban, a "bad" year and a crash doesn't count? What should we do with that? Put another 3 Tours on his palmares, 'cause he would certainly have won them if it wasn't for the mentioned mishaps.
Sorry, but that reasoning is equally valid like saying that Merckx would have won 40 Tours if he could have managed to maintain his form for another 35 years.
And if he's not interested in the Classics, that can just decrease his reputation and erase the eagerness for victory. That kind of disrespect is unforgivable.

 

[sir fly]

I think he is rated right where he should be. I don't think people underrate him or make light of what he has done - but he also doesn't get hyped around here. I think that's how he should be looked.

I am repeating - he doesn't exist in the discussions and speculations.
What kind of rating is that? In order to be adequate, he shouldn't exist as well.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

So, a ban, a "bad" year and a crash doesn't count? What should we do with that? Put another 3 Tours on his palmares, 'cause he would certainly have won them if it wasn't for the mentioned mishaps.
Sorry, but that reasoning is equally valid like saying that Merckx would have won 40 Tours if he could have managed to maintain his form for another 35 years.

I dind't want to argue that he'd won a zillion tours, just that your argument was flawed because you made it seem like this gap of 5 years was inherently important.

And if he's not interested in the Classics, that can just decrease his reputation and erase the eagerness for victory. That kind of disrespect is unforgivable.

This is a very constructed argument which avoids every point I made. He focused on what he thought he was good at, and with that he was more or less in line with every top GT guy since Hinault (as sad as it is, it's true). But was he ever rated for being a classics rider? No I don't think so. Was he ever rated as one of the all time greats of cycling. No he wasn't. So I don't get what you are arguing for at all.

"He shouldn't be rated at all because he ain't at least Hinault" doesn't count as an argument really.

 

[sir fly]

I dind't want to argue that he'd won a zillion tours, just that your argument was flawed because you made it seem like this gap of 5 years was inherently important.

So a ban, a "bad" year and a crash are excuses?

 

[Jspear]

So a ban, a "bad" year and a crash are excuses?

Is the Tour the only race we can use to determine if he is overrated or not? What about the other races that he has won since the 2010 Tour?

 

[sir fly]

Is the Tour the only race we can use to determine if he is overrated or not? What about the other races that he has won since the 2010 Tour?

If we have to determine if someone is underrated or overrated, we have to rate him somehow.
I think that 5 Tourless years have to be included in the rating, especially considering his god like status in the contemporary professional road racing.
The 5 years are also a reflection of his career. Bans, "bad" years, crashes are integral part of the profession.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

So a ban, a "bad" year and a crash are excuses?

Well you just repeat your argument that a time of x length of not winning the tour means you cannot be a great rider. 0Iit just doesn't work for me.
If not being able to contest doesn't count what does? It's not that he contested and failed. And having a bad year doesn't make you a non great rider either. Overall I don't see you delivering a very sound argument.

 

[Jspear]

]If we have to determine if someone is underrated or overrated, we have to rate him somehow.[/B]
I think that 5 Tourless years have to be included in the rating, especially considering his god like status in the contemporary professional road racing.
The 5 years are also a reflection of his career. Bans, "bad" years, crashes are integral part of the profession.

Fair enough. In the last 5 years he has won the following:

Paris Nice, Vuelta Castilla, Volta Algarve, 2 Vuelta's, Milano Torino, Vuelta Vasco, and Tirreno. He has also won 13 stages + he has different GC placings.

 

[sir fly]

Well you just repeat your argument that a time of x length of not winning the tour means you cannot be a great rider. 0Iit just doesn't work for me.
If not being able to contest doesn't count what does? It's not that he contested and failed. And having a bad year doesn't make you a non great rider either. Overall I don't see you delivering a very sound argument.

It's all part of the profession. Being banned means and tells something. Having a "bad" year or crashing, also. Can't be neglected. I've already written.

Fair enough. In the last 5 years he has won the following:

Paris Nice, Vuelta Castilla, Volta Algarve, 2 Vuelta's, Milano Torino, Vuelta Vasco, and Tirreno. He has also won 13 stages + he has different GC placings.

O.K., you've convinced me.
He's OVERRATED.

 

[Jspear]

O.K., you've convinced me.
He's OVERRATED.

He did all that in spite of his bad luck and ban. You are underrating him.

 

[pigoonse]

Ridiculously underrated and discredited on this forum - Nibali. It may be said that luck accounts in part for each of his 3 GT wins. I would agree with that. But one does not win any GT on luck alone. And I would like to know where all the posters are that claim Nibs is on the same level as Contador? I don't think anyone who follows cycling can say that Nibs is on the same level as Contador, but Nibs has certainly earned all of his GT wins despite that many posters here claim otherwise. It really is annoying to read the amount of **** discrediting such an awesome cyclist.

Wiggins used to not be, but is now underrated here.

Terpstra is underrated/disliked, and for some reason not given the credit he earned.

Valverde is underrated on this forum; or a better discription would be disliked and vilified.

Gerrans is underrated

Overrated on this forum - Froome. Remains to be seen if he will win another GT at all.

Overhyped but deserving of the hype and credit - Contador.

In general and for the largest part, the overrated or underrated labels on this forum, is a matter of opinion, is subjective in nature, and is especially influential when started by a popular poster or group of posters.

 

[nhowson]

These are all based on where these riders are right at this second. No "palmares" talk or anything past the 2014 season.

Contador is overrated on the forum, rated correctly across the board.

Nibali is underrated
Gerrans is slightly underrated (or is he just disliked for his style?)
Kristoff is incredibly underrated
Cancellara is slightly overrated
Degenkolb is underrated

Most underrated: Leo König
Most overrated: Peter Sagan

 

[BlurryVII]

Fair enough. In the last 5 years he has won the following:

Paris Nice, Vuelta Castilla, Volta Algarve, 2 Vuelta's, Milano Torino, Vuelta Vasco, and Tirreno. He has also won 13 stages + he has different GC placings.

You really should have added his 2011 results. If you want to correctly rate him, then you have to take into account what he did on the road not what's in the irrelevant books so:

+ Tour + Giro (2 stages win) + Murcia (2 stages win) + Volta Catalunya ( 1 stage win).

But anyway, in sir fly's world, a rider who has won at least a GT per season since 2007 (bar 13') and plenty of prestigious 1 week races is overrated

He sure is one of the best stage racer all time, I think no one here ever mentioned he is a good classic rider but as a stage racer, he deserves all the hype.