who are the most overrated riders in the peloton in your opinion?

[Publicus]

Simple answer. The Tour last year. He had time on Contador, and was well on his way to putting more time into him. AC was at least 5 seconds back and still had not responded when Schleck dropped the chain. He appeared to be making a move (not an attack as he said since he was already behind) And judging from the furious pace with which he chased AC up the mountain, he would not have let up, bonked, whatever. In all liklihood, Schleck would have put an additional second or two that would have made the difference in TT. He had that race won.

Is the same "in form Menchov" that finished nearly a minute behind Andy last year?

You also have to figure Andy isn't always chasing a win in races he enters. That might be what differentiates him and AC.

Simply not true (see the video which is very clear that he's responding immediately and before he drops his chain). And the question was what stage race that he could win and ACTUALLY won.

EDIT: Menchov has won a GT. More than one in fact. Which is more than Andy can say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe7wpDjGHXU

 

[Angliru]

Simple answer. The Tour last year. He had time on Contador, and was well on his way to putting more time into him. AC was at least 5 seconds back and still had not responded when Schleck dropped the chain. He appeared to be making a move (not an attack as he said since he was already behind) And judging from the furious pace with which he chased AC up the mountain, he would not have let up, bonked, whatever. In all liklihood, Schleck would have put an additional second or two that would have made the difference in TT. He had that race won.

Is the same "in form Menchov" that finished nearly a minute behind Andy last year?

You also have to figure Andy isn't always chasing a win in races he enters. That might be what differentiates him and AC.

If I recall correctly AS attacked because Contador was further back in the pack than he should have been. This explains why Vino seemingly was first to respond. Contador responded in kind, he just had more ground to cover. AS was still rolling, minus his chain, when Contador dangerously went around him on the cliff side of the road.

You can create any possible scenario you choose when you are revising history as can I.
-What if the peloton had told Cancellara to frak off, when he and others asked that the stage be neutralized?
-What if Contador hadn't been caught behind Frank Schleck when he crashed and likely stayed with the lead group including AS to the finish?
-What if Contador hadn't tried to respond to every attack on stage 8, only countering when AS made his move with Samu?
-What if Contador arrived at the Tour with the same or similar form as 2009?

 

[khardung la]

Samuel Sanchez
Andy Schleck

 

[Bruce_Willis_97]

Pippo and Wiggo....

You're only as good as your last result!?

 

[Mambo95]

Pippo and Wiggo....

You're only as good as your last result!?

Wiggins has won the last two races he's done.

 

[Cimber]

Fuglsang
Cunego
Kreuziger
Pozzatto
Tony Martin (as a GT GC contender)

 

[Parrulo]

Simple answer. The Tour last year. He had time on Contador, and was well on his way to putting more time into him. AC was at least 5 seconds back and still had not responded when Schleck dropped the chain. He appeared to be making a move (not an attack as he said since he was already behind) And judging from the furious pace with which he chased AC up the mountain, he would not have let up, bonked, whatever. In all liklihood, Schleck would have put an additional second or two that would have made the difference in TT. He had that race won.

Is the same "in form Menchov" that finished nearly a minute behind Andy last year?

You also have to figure Andy isn't always chasing a win in races he enters. That might be what differentiates him and AC.

 

[ergmonkey]

Fuglsang
Cunego
Kreuziger
Pozzatto
Tony Martin (as a GT GC contender)

I'm inclined to agree about Fuglsang. Chris Anker is much less heralded but still the better pure climber and mountain domestique. Fuglsang might be more versatile because of his TT, but each rider is headed to the Tour to perform the same job and the less-talked about Chris Anker should be much better at it.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

Simply not true (see the video which is very clear that he's responding immediately and before he drops his chain). And the question was what stage race that he could win and ACTUALLY won.

EDIT: Menchov has won a GT. More than one in fact. Which is more than Andy can say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe7wpDjGHXU

We can't really see exactly when AC responds because the camera doesn't pan out that much (I guess he was that far back ). We do see him several seconds behind though as Andy's chain slips, and judging from his distance on the group, he had just started to chase. Also, start counting from the time Andy's chain slips (when he loses all momentum) and you'll reach 5-6 seconds before AC passes. EDIT: Shleck's chain drops at 9 seconds, Contador rides by at 14.

And yes, Menchov has won a GT but he can't beat Andy right now. He may have been a better stage racer in the past, but currently Schleck is better.

You can create any possible scenario you choose when you are revising history as can I.

I'm not creating any hypothetical scenario or revising history. What I'm saying is when you have two climbers of roughly equal ability (col du tourmalet proved that), one that is 5 seconds back will not catch the other if both are going full gas.

 

[Publicus]

We can't really see exactly when AC responds because the camera doesn't pan out that much (I guess he was that far back ). We do see him several seconds behind though as Andy's chain slips, and judging from his distance on the group, he had just started to chase. Also, start counting from the time Andy's chain slips (when he loses all momentum) and you'll reach 5-6 seconds before AC passes. EDIT: Shleck's chain drops at 9 seconds, Contador rides by at 14.

And yes, Menchov has won a GT but he can't beat Andy right now. He may have been a better stage racer in the past, but currently Schleck is better.



I'm not creating any hypothetical scenario or revising history. What I'm saying is when you have two climbers of roughly equal ability (col du tourmalet proved that), one that is 5 seconds back will not catch the other if both are going full gas.

At 0:04 of the video you see a full shot of Andy, followed by Vino and on the left hand side of the screen, AC in full flight. Which puts to bed this stupid notion that AC attacked AFTER Andy dropped his chain once and for all. As for how long it takes to AC to reach him, it doesn't matter. Andy, for whatever reason, drops his chain. End of story. Pull your sword and drop it, you die.

I hate that this got sidetracked away from my original and legitimate criticism of Andy as it relates to this thread [MY APOLOGIES TO EVERYONE FOR WASTING YOUR BANDWIDTH ON THIS DISTRACTION]. He's called the second best stage racer, but has never won a stage race. Finishing second at the TdF each year is nothing to sneeze at and underscores his potential, but at some point you have to start dinging the guy for not getting it done even in lesser races. [And I agree with you about Menchov subject only to the course, the more ITT km the better his chances of beating Andy increases]

 

[Angliru]

I'm not creating any hypothetical scenario or revising history. What I'm saying is when you have two climbers of roughly equal ability (col du tourmalet proved that), one that is 5 seconds back will not catch the other if both are going full gas.

The only thing that Col du Toumalet proved is that no matter how hard Andy tries he can't drop Contador. I don't recall ever seeing Contador in any distress regardless of what Andy did. He was riding to control Andy, with one dig/attack just to see if Andy had anything left. You obviously are of the same belief as Andy that Contador's form was no different than 2009 and that Andy had improved/bridged the talent gap (climbing wise). We will have to disagree on that one.

Stage 8 proved that when one (Contador) tries to answer every attack, one is expending too much energy, with none left for the one that really matters.
Stage 8 was the one stage that Andy gained time in the mountains on Contador. If you're going to argue that stage was an indicator of Andy's potential to drop Contador in the mountains then you'd have to say the same for Sammy Sanchez. Now that really puts a wrench in the works of that argument.

I'm not of the belief that they are of equal ability. I still believe that Contador is stronger than Andy in the mountains. The stage that Purito won (Mende?) proves that fact and it proves that on all types of mtf's Contador is superior.
Additionally I believe Contador has a stronger will than Andy and an ability to focus on the task at hand in a way that Andy seems to take a more cavalier approach to.

2008's Tour and last year's was Andy's for the taking and both times he just couldn't finish his opponents off. The reasons go beyond his obvious athletic
talents and have to be attributed to something else. I'll leave it at that.

 

[peloton]

The only thing that Col du Toumalet proved is that no matter how hard Andy tries he can't drop Contador. I don't recall ever seeing Contador in any distress regardless of what Andy did. He was riding to control Andy, with one dig/attack just to see if Andy had anything left. You obviously are of the same belief as Andy that Contador's form was no different than 2009 and that Andy had improved/bridged the talent gap (climbing wise). We will have to disagree on that one.

Stage 8 proved that when one (Contador) tries to answer every attack, one is expending too much energy, with none left for the one that really matters.
Stage 8 was the one stage that Andy gained time in the mountains on Contador. If you're going to argue that stage was an indicator of Andy's potential to drop Contador in the mountains then you'd have to say the same for Sammy Sanchez. Now that really puts a wrench in the works of that argument.

I'm not of the belief that they are of equal ability. I still believe that Contador is stronger than Andy in the mountains. The stage that Purito won (Mende?) proves that fact and it proves that on all types of mtf's Contador is superior.
Additionally I believe Contador has a stronger will than Andy and an ability to focus on the task at hand in a way that Andy seems to take a more cavalier approach to.

2008's Tour and last year's was Andy's for the taking and both times he just couldn't finish his opponents off. The reasons go beyond his obvious athletic
talents and have to be attributed to something else. I'll leave it at that.

+1

Someone who has worked with both AC and AS had this to say

“Andy Schleck has been touted as the opposition. We saw last year that he could be there. We also saw that Alberto wasn’t so good last year, not as good as he was the previous years,” Yates said. “Mentally, he’s so much stronger than Andy. They’re different characters, you cannot compare them. Andy is very talented, but he doesn’t have the same mentality as Contador.”

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...ador-you-cannot-see-anyone-beating-him_178434

The fact that Andy hasn't won a single stage race yet, despite his obvious talent, is very surprising.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I seem to remember some people on these boards still rate Linus.
Can't imagine anyone still rating Karpets

I still reckon Linus is a reasonable stagehunter and a worthwhile addition to a team for the airtime on his crazy attacks, and if you have a genuine GT contender he can guide them on descents cos he's good at those. He'll never ever become the rider he was supposed to, but he's still a good cyclist.

Not just that though, it's the Pais Vasco last year (podium this year) and the top ten at the '10 Tour after being a domestique for Lance for the first part of the race.

He'd never have top 10ed if he hadn't been domestiquing for Armstrong, though, cos he would never have been allowed to gain the 6 minutes back to Pau if he hadn't lost that 4-5 minutes to Morzine. And then we'd have been talking about Luís León Sánchez or Rubén Plaza as TdF top 10 riders.

 

[roundabout]

+1

Someone who has worked with both AC and AS had this to say

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...ador-you-cannot-see-anyone-beating-him_178434

The fact that Andy hasn't won a single stage race yet, despite his obvious talent, is very surprising.

-1. The post you quoted was an utter crap fanboy puff piece

Here's a pop quiz for those who also thought that bit of twaddle was worth quoting in full

which rider admitted that he couldn't sleep well before the final TT last year?

a) Alberto Contador

b) Andy Schleck

c) John Gadret

d) Robet Gesink

Btw, Yates worked with Schleck only for a couple of months when Andy was a 19 year old stagiaire.

 

[bridgeman]

I doubt Contador will even podium this year.

 

[movingtarget]

I don't think Frank Schleck is ever spoken about as a favorite with the exception of the 2009 Vuelta. In the Tour he is always listed as a "contender" which to me means he is in the running for a possible podium spot or a decent placing in the top ten. Even in 2008, Andy was being touted more highly than Frank, this based on Andy's Giro performance in 2007.

OK. As a serious contender. I can't see Frank Schleck ever winnning a grand tour or making the podium. He is too inconsistent. Obviously Andy is the more talented rider. Frank should go for stage wins.

 

[Publicus]

-1. The post you quoted was an utter crap fanboy puff piece

Here's a pop quiz for those who also thought that bit of twaddle was worth quoting in full

which rider admitted that he couldn't sleep well before the final TT last year?

a) Alberto Contador

b) Andy Schleck

c) John Gadret

d) Robet Gesink

Btw, Yates worked with Schleck only for a couple of months when Andy was a
19 year old stagiaire.

And which rider finished the TT fastest of the four you listed? Hint he couldn't sleep the night before.

 

[**Uru**]

Judging by the yearly crap Tour hype on VS, my picks for over rated include:
George Hincapie
Tyler Farrar
Chris Horner
Tom Danielson

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Nibali isn't overrated, he is an over achiever.

Tony Martin's climbing ability.

only one or two chumps rate his ability to climb.

I agree with the Rujano claim. He is good, but he is viewed here like some climbing god.

Evans and Gesink as far as GTs are concerned.




Many seem to believe that he's the strongest candidate for a podium spot in this year's TDF, outside of Contador and Schleck.

Fact: he barely held onto 6th last year and the field is stronger now.

how many riders can you name took 6th in their first attempt at the tour

Not to mention he rode for Menchov on at least 1 occasion in last year's tour.

I haven't actually seen any of the regular dutch posters (forgot some poll, I dunno who voted for gesink, but it doesn't matter) suggest he could win the tour, but a podium is very realistic. Fail how to see a young talent such as gesink, whom is likely to show progression is overrated as a GT rider when no insane claims have been made.

Considering his endurance and recovery GTs should be his best area.

 

[craig1985]

I've always thought Pozzato to be over-rated.

 

[Cimber]

I doubt Contador will even podium this year.

You should put some money on that. I think you will get some vary good odds

 

[Midnightfright]

Nibali isn't overrated, he is an over achiever.



only one or two chumps rate his ability to climb.

I agree with the Rujano claim. He is good, but he is viewed here like some climbing god.



how many riders can you name took 6th in their first attempt at the tour

Not to mention he rode for Menchov on at least 1 occasion in last year's tour.

I haven't actually seen any of the regular dutch posters (forgot some poll, I dunno who voted for gesink, but it doesn't matter) suggest he could win the tour, but a podium is very realistic. Fail how to see a young talent such as gesink, whom is likely to show progression is overrated as a GT rider when no insane claims have been made.

Considering his endurance and recovery GTs should be his best area.

I can certainly see what your saying about Gesink. I think podium predictions is a little too much for him at this tour, I personally think he's underrated but understand I'm in the minority and think he will finish in the bottom half if the top 10.

 

[Midnightfright]

You should put some money on that. I think you will get some vary good odds

I've actually had a look for that out of curiosity and closest I found is being able to lay the bet at betfair, the going odds were 1/5 a couple if days ago.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

how many riders can you name took 6th in their first attempt at the tour

Not to mention he rode for Menchov on at least 1 occasion in last year's tour.

I haven't actually seen any of the regular dutch posters (forgot some poll, I dunno who voted for gesink, but it doesn't matter) suggest he could win the tour, but a podium is very realistic. Fail how to see a young talent such as gesink, whom is likely to show progression is overrated as a GT rider when no insane claims have been made.

Considering his endurance and recovery GTs should be his best area.

Second attempt at the Tour.

He's a talented rider, obviously, but he probably wouldn't even have made the podium in the 2009 Vuelta if he'd managed to stay on his bike. I don't think he has improved much since then.

I only take issue with the notion that he's the number one favorite for that 3rd podium spot, as many seem to believe. I'm not saying it's impossible.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Second attempt at the Tour.

He's a talented rider, obviously, but he probably wouldn't even have made the podium in the 2009 Vuelta if he'd managed to stay on his bike. I don't think he has improved much since then.

I only take issue with the notion that he's the number one favorite for that 3rd podium spot, as many seem to believe. I'm not saying it's impossible.

ok 1st attempt at a tour where he actually hit a mountain
It is pretty impressive, despite you thinking 'he barely hang on'.

Anyway He was well on his way to a podium at the 09' vuelta.
ASIF he was going to lose time on that last mountain stage. After that he only needed to a ITT about 25 seconds better (considering he had a hole in his knee this shouldn't be an issue) to get podium.

ANyway as for the favorite for 3rd place.. on a whole yes he is a favorite, but along with a couple other others, and rightly so.