Who do you trust? LA & JB versus AC & Spanish media AKA Wheel Gate

Page 4 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Oct 29, 2009
2,578
0
0
It will be interesting to see the movie documentary about Lance's return to the Tour, with ample footage of the behind the scenes, including a lot with Contador. Probably scheduled for a June/July release I guess.

Contador was post-Tour invited to give his side of the story, but declined to do so, stating he felt the movie was to celebrate Armstrong, and he didn't want to be part of it (or words to that effect). Still, it should be an interesting part of the docu, and I guess behind the scenes footage alone will speak volumes. They obviously can't ignore it.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601077&sid=aYwHO4vfBuxk
 
May 7, 2009
88
0
0
The Alberto punching bag routine is getting old

Okay, I'm a Lance fan and even I think the Alberto bashing is way out of hand. The tour was over 5 months ago!

There doesn't seem to be a point to it for Lance. What's he hoping to accomplish? And Johan is doing half the dirty work himself. Really makes Alberto look like the class act.

As for the wheels, that seems silly. Bruyneel wanted Astana to win and knew Alberto was the best chance. No way he doesn't make sure AC has everything he needs.

Twisted Spoke
http://walshworld.wordpress.com/
 
Mar 17, 2009
295
0
9,030
Walshworld said:
Okay, I'm a Lance fan and even I think the Alberto bashing is way out of hand. The tour was over 5 months ago!

There doesn't seem to be a point to it for Lance. What's he hoping to accomplish? And Johan is doing half the dirty work himself. Really makes Alberto look like the class act.

As for the wheels, that seems silly. Bruyneel wanted Astana to win and knew Alberto was the best chance. No way he doesn't make sure AC has everything he needs.

Twisted Spoke
http://walshworld.wordpress.com/

There is absolutely nothing wrong being objective and also be a fan and here is proof of that, can you please see to it to talk to the rest of these blind-sided LA fans here
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
DavidVilla7 said:
omg, Lance is just getting worse and worse. and transparent, so that everyone can see, how he really is.

I think it's obvious who's lying

personally i think they are both full of crap on this one.. somewhere between the lies and the half truths the real truth lies..

Contador has clearly learnt a few things from Lance, and BS is one of them..
 
Jun 18, 2009
2,078
2
0
scribe said:
I find it hard to believe berto wouldn't have access to team and sponsor materials. I could believe the taxi-gate @ hotel more readily.

I agree. Hard to believe you wouldn't want your equipment with Contador.
 
Jun 18, 2009
2,078
2
0
ImmaculateKadence said:
I wish both parties would let it die until July.

This. Completely tired of this story at this point.

AC has moved on for sure. Seems LA can't move on and I'm not sure what to make of JB. One minute he's dissing AC and the next minute AC is ok.
 
Jul 26, 2009
364
0
0
dimspace said:
personally i think they are both full of crap on this one.. somewhere between the lies and the half truths the real truth lies..

Contador has clearly learnt a few things from Lance, and BS is one of them..

dim the words both and this one just dont apply here.....this entire thread is about lance and johans diatribe to the media.......and please clue us all in , exactly what lanceisms have been demonstrated by contador......what is this BS you are referencing ........
 
Jul 26, 2009
364
0
0
richwagmn said:
I agree. Hard to believe you wouldn't want your equipment with Contador.

its even harder to believe there petulant behavior after contador's time gains at arcalis
 
Jul 9, 2009
7,870
1,279
20,680
richwagmn said:
This. Completely tired of this story at this point.

AC has moved on for sure. Seems LA can't move on and I'm not sure what to make of JB. One minute he's dissing AC and the next minute AC is ok.

Well Lance is gonna retire long before Contador.............
 
Dec 24, 2009
60
0
0
what if?

w/o the TTT LA and Schleck,F. have the same time for the tour.Who thinks LA is heppy about the TTT-less '10 TDF?
I am stoked!
 

thehog

BANNED
Jul 27, 2009
31,285
2
22,485
Get the feeling all this talk is just a prelude to a new book/movie/money making stunt from Lance. He needs to build a story as the results don't come like they used to.
 
Jul 4, 2009
340
0
0
Publicus said:
I noticed that. But I also notice that wheel (I believe it is the H3D) is only produced/offered by HED. I know that they (HED and Bontrager) collaborated on some of the wheels offered by Bontrager, but again, there is nothing remotely similar to this wheel on the Bontrager website.

Perhaps the Bontrager label was thrown on for marketing purposes since they (Bontrager) are the official wheel sponsor of Astana (for 2009). HED is a supplier for Astana, but they are not a sponsor (this came up in another thread).

Hey Publicus, I will comment because I was the one who brought up the supplier versus sponsor in the other thread. When I brought it up it was in the context of a sponsor gives product but a supplier may give a discount but needs to be paid. I good example of this Trek and Bontrager gives bikes and wheels to the team but a company like HED needed to be paid. Shipping costs need to be paid DHL/FEDEX/UPS don't work for free. What about the team cars they are not free. I think a lot of people have a jaded perspective on that the ProTour teams get everything sponsored and that is simply not the case.

Lance as a US cyclist who appeals to the growing US triathlete market place he rides HED 3D's and the next thing HED sees more orders for their wheels. Of course HED will make sure that the poster boy of their market place gets the wheels. If AC could not get the same deal that is his problem. I don't think that he was denied any of the team wheels.

Was LA an @SS for not extending the benefits, if what has been said yes. But HED is a small company and from my understanding most of their second generation stuff end up with the Bontrager name on it.

Please correct me on the the Trek, Hed and Bontrager connections. The only thing I will contest is if he is b|chting about ceramic bearings versus the standard. Cr@p the difference is so small on a prologue TT that is simply whining.

If Alberto wants Hed 3D's with ceramic bearings, he can have mine. Just as long as I don't see anymore of the those D@mn Look Keo 2 adds on the sidebar of forum. "I demand the best, I know what I want" Pedals are pedals pick what works and go forward.
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,854
2
0
cotterpin said:
w/o the TTT LA and Schleck,F. have the same time for the tour.Who thinks LA is heppy about the TTT-less '10 TDF?
I am stoked!

Replace the TTT with a long TT and Armstrong loses another minute to Wiggens
 
Mar 17, 2009
8,421
959
19,680
L29205 said:
. The only thing I will contest is if he is b|chting about ceramic bearings versus the standard. Cr@p the difference is so small on a prologue TT that is simply whining.

If Alberto wants Hed 3D's with ceramic bearings, he can have mine. Just as long as I don't see anymore of the those D@mn Look Keo 2 adds on the sidebar of forum. "I demand the best, I know what I want" Pedals are pedals pick what works and go forward.

sorry to tell you, but professional riders DO B!TCH for equipment quality!! they'd cry out to hell to get the most efficient gear in the market, and big money is spent in all those little details in order to cut down seconds in a TT. BTW- back in LA's past glory- he and the Hog where Wh0res for the latest gadgets.

back to the wheel "b!tching"

the website crearly states:
HED EXTRAS:
WE'RE PROUD TO SUPPLY:
ASTANA
Team tibco
kbf medifast

And the infamous picture shows the front wheel being a HED while the rear is a Bontrager.......
 
Jun 10, 2009
65
0
0
Angliru said:
Contador wasn't even in a position to guarantee anyone that he would stay with Astana, how could he have any influence on where anyone went?

good point, i still expected him to be able to take a couple of his domestiques where ever he ended up though
 
Jul 4, 2009
340
0
0
hfer07 said:
sorry to tell you, but professional riders DO B!TCH for equipment quality!! they'd cry out to hell to get the most efficient gear in the market, and big money is spent in all those little details in order to cut down seconds in a TT. BTW- back in LA's past glory- he and the Hog where Wh0res for the latest gadgets.

back to the wheel "b!tching"

the website crearly states:
HED EXTRAS:
WE'RE PROUD TO SUPPLY:
ASTANA
Team tibco
kbf medifast

And the infamous picture shows the front wheel being a HED while the rear is a Bontrager.......

I am not disagreeing with you here. I would go back to my original comment supplier versus sponsor. If Astana before the start of the TDF could not pay their riders how can they pay their suppliers. A supplier may choose to give toy's that fit their market place to riders that inspire their customers. USA and a growing international crowd of tri-geeks are the main aero wheel manufactures cash cow, LA is a great poster boy. He is well known, easier recognized, competitive in time trails (which is a major triathlete concern) and came from a triathlon background. Why do you think he is doing Kona in 2011 after he retires again?

Do you really think that a major pro tour team gets everything for nothing??
 
phillop said:
good point, i still expected him to be able to take a couple of his domestiques where ever he ended up though

With what money? What was he going to promise them? Contador didn't have a team himself.

Plus, let's make the distinction. Contador DID take some domestiques, just not the ones from the Tour. Remember, he couldn't bring all HIS guys to the Tour team because of Armstrong. Contador wanted Noval on the team, but JB and Pharm said no. Now, Noval is riding for Contador.
 
Jul 4, 2009
340
0
0
Moose McKnuckles said:
With what money? What was he going to promise them? Contador didn't have a team himself.

Plus, let's make the distinction. Contador DID take some domestiques, just not the ones from the Tour. Remember, he couldn't bring all HIS guys to the Tour team because of Armstrong. Contador wanted Noval on the team, but JB and Pharm said no. Now, Noval is riding for Contador.

Moose, I am not a LA, JB or even an AC fan at all. Is there a problem going back to the 7 dna profiles that may be playing into this? Is Noval hitching his hourse on the cleanest wagon?

Strictly speculation.
 
Dec 10, 2009
15
0
0
L29205 said:
Moose, I am not a LA, JB or even an AC fan at all. Is there a problem going back to the 7 dna profiles that may be playing into this? Is Noval hitching his hourse on the cleanest wagon?

Strictly speculation.

From Marca Espania International 17/12:

Although now riding with his rival, Benjamin hasn’t lost admiration for the American. “He’ll be a year older, yes, but if this season, after a three-year absence from cycling, he made the podium—something that was commendable and surprising—in 2010 he’s not going to have any goal other than winning the Tour. I’m sure that there’s nothing else going on in his mind. I have no doubt that he’s going to be better, although that doesn’t mean that he’s going to be at Contador’s level.”

Benja hasn’t forgotten the years with Lance. “I can’t say anything bad about him, because he was a very important person in my career. In fact, everything I know as a cyclist, I learned from him…and from Chechu Rubiera. But now I have a duty to Alberto, I have a relationship with him that I never had with Lance, and right now I can't imagine my job as a cyclist without him, because I’ve always been a gregario and I have the good luck to be alongside the best rider in the world.”

So, knowing that Contador is going to need him in the next Tour, and especially in the famous stage with cobblestones—13 kilometers of pavé spread over seven sections—Noval foresees preparing himself in a special way: “I’m going to volunteer to ride the Tour of Flanders and Paris-Roubaix. And then, of course, we’ll have to go and memorize the routes, because the setting and the knowledge of the terrain are going to be very important.”
 
Mar 12, 2009
2,521
0
0
phillop said:
good point, i still expected him to be able to take a couple of his domestiques where ever he ended up though

He did, he has his most loyal guys Noval, Navarro and Hernandez with him...;)
 
Jul 4, 2009
340
0
0
hope_rides_again said:
From Marca Espania International 17/12:

Although now riding with his rival, Benjamin hasn’t lost admiration for the American. “He’ll be a year older, yes, but if this season, after a three-year absence from cycling, he made the podium—something that was commendable and surprising—in 2010 he’s not going to have any goal other than winning the Tour. I’m sure that there’s nothing else going on in his mind. I have no doubt that he’s going to be better, although that doesn’t mean that he’s going to be at Contador’s level.”

Benja hasn’t forgotten the years with Lance. “I can’t say anything bad about him, because he was a very important person in my career. In fact, everything I know as a cyclist, I learned from him…and from Chechu Rubiera. But now I have a duty to Alberto, I have a relationship with him that I never had with Lance, and right now I can't imagine my job as a cyclist without him, because I’ve always been a gregario and I have the good luck to be alongside the best rider in the world.”

So, knowing that Contador is going to need him in the next Tour, and especially in the famous stage with cobblestones—13 kilometers of pavé spread over seven sections—Noval foresees preparing himself in a special way: “I’m going to volunteer to ride the Tour of Flanders and Paris-Roubaix. And then, of course, we’ll have to go and memorize the routes, because the setting and the knowledge of the terrain are going to be very important.”

A Great quote, I give you credit. I read as much as I can in the US concerning cycling but the lack of information here is very disturbing and very one sided. Could you please provide a link to the article you quote? If I choose to quote you in the future I would like to make sure I am not taking anything out of context.

Thank you
L
 
Mar 17, 2009
11,341
1
22,485
L29205 said:
A Great quote, I give you credit. I read as much as I can in the US concerning cycling but the lack of information here is very disturbing and very one sided. Could you please provide a link to the article you quote? If I choose to quote you in the future I would like to make sure I am not taking anything out of context.

Thank you
L

It was/is posted at albertocontadornotebook.info. Novak had some fairly interesting comments. He is very loyal to AC.
 
Jul 4, 2009
340
0
0
Publicus said:
It was/is posted at albertocontadornotebook.info. Novak had some fairly interesting comments. He is very loyal to AC.

Thanks for the information. I try to very open minded on things. I will read the information and see what forms in my head as an opinion. I guess he knows more then we will ever know.
 
Oct 29, 2009
2,578
0
0
peloton said:
Quote:Originally Posted by phillop: good point, i still expected him to be able to take a couple of his domestiques where ever he ended up though.

He did, he has his most loyal guys Noval, Navarro and Hernandez with him...;)

Off course. We know that, Lance knows that. Lance also figured out before the interview, that if he wants to create a story out of thin air, and picks his words carefully, and limits it to "the tour team", he doesn't lie per se, and might well get away with it. At least get away with it amongst the crowd he is doing it for. Most people will hear only the sound bite that Lance wants to put out there, and swallow it hook line and sinker. The rest? I don't think he cares. Probably enjoys it even.

But you need to think that sort of "lie" through in advance, and pick your words carefully. he's good at it, been showing that for years. And so Lance gets exactly what he sets out to do, create a story that he knows doesn't hold water, but makes him look good and casts doubt on the sort of guy Contador really is, for the right crowd.

It's pathetic. Desperate. And makes juicy copy for reporters.

It worked in the past, because the people he targeted couldn't trump Lance on the road, so they had to swallow it, or engage in a media tit-for-tat. Making them look like sore losers at best, and elevating Lance greatness even higher. Lose-lose.

Contador is different. On a normal day, he will better out-of-retirement Lance with ease every day of the year. He doesn't need to respond, and since it seems to be against his nature anyway, he hardly does. So Lance is getting frustrated his usual approach (hating his rival) and mind games to intimidate and irritate his opponent, aren't having the effect he got so used to, when he was reigning supreme. The tried and tested script isn't working.

If anything, instead of getting under Contador's skin, he's now getting under his own skin. Overdoes it. And Twitter, etc, guarantees we all know it comes directly from him, we get a first hand glimpse into his treatment of others. And it's not a pretty picture.

So now it is becoming increasingly clear to many that the man we are dealing with has got a dislikeable side to him. One that was always there off course. And one that sits ill at ease with the carefully crafted heroic Lance image that many had swallowed.

There are aspects of Lance 09 that don't rhyme with the all-positive image of Lance the Champ that many people wanted to believe. I think that is why these spats get so much airtime. Those that felt that it was false to start with, and have plenty of other Lance frustrations bottled up, are handed ammo with each tweet and fart that comes from Lance head quarters.

And are now, finally, finding a general audience that like their (US) heroes to be great and graceful, suddenly soul searching after being confronted with a dissonance in the image that they had build around Lance.

One they probably did not expect. One that might still fit "great athlete", but doesn't sit comfortably with a "great person". And that last one was exactly why Lance was special and outstanding, to many. Or so they believed.

All adds up to media catnip.

There is a lot I dislike about Armstrong, but as an athlete I do think he is impressive, and still has a lot going for him. Even if he was doping but never caught, then he was still beating the best of the other dopers hands down. That I hated how potential competitors ended up riding for him is neither here nor there. I suspect that he was a great rider with scary abilities to self-motivate. A talented rider who dominated the most successful doper amongst dopers for a generation, so probably a genuine winner of sorts, and hardly the odd one out in a long line-up of cycling heroes that those who dislike Lance, readily accept as truly great.

But I'm loving every minute of this self-inflicted dismantling of the Armstrong Legend. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.