First time I did it. It will be better next time.Thank god you gave us the option to pick multiple riders from the large pool of 3 riders. That way i was able to pick all three.
When Mvdp get podium on Lombardia then it will be closeWhy isn't it close?
okayWhen Mvdp get podium on Lombardia then it will be close
No but the obvious difference is that Pogacar can't win it because of Van der Poel, but Van der Poel can't win Lombardia even if Pogacar wasn't there. I doubt he'd be able to win Liege, frankly – I think the race dynamics with Pog/Remco suit him getting spring podiums there (see: Velasco).okay
To add: there are two monuments Pogi can't win because of Van der Poel and two where Van der Poel can't win, and one where they both have a chance.
It seems pretty close to me, even if I would also give the nod to Pog.
Big difference. MVP can't win LBL or GdL even if Pogacar isn't racing.okay
To add: there are two monuments Pogi can't win because of Van der Poel and two where Van der Poel can't win, and one where they both have a chance.
It seems pretty close to me, even if I would also give the nod to Pog.
No but the obvious difference is that Pogacar can't win it because of Van der Poel, but Van der Poel can't win Lombardia even if Pogacar wasn't there. I doubt he'd be able to win Liege, frankly – I think the race dynamics with Pog/Remco suit him getting spring podiums there (see: Velasco).
Edit: Overall Pogacar is clearly better. If I did a quick research, Pogacar would probably beat MVP in 70% of WT classics.
Taking a quick look since we are talking about winning the race while beating the other (it doesn't matter if Pogacar beats MVP if he can't win the classic. I think we both agree on this).Cadel Evans
Omloop
Strade
San remo
De Panne
E3
G-W
Dwaars
RVV
Roubaix
Amstel
Fleche
Lbl
Frankfurt
Copenhagen
San Sebastian
Hamburg
Bretagne
Quebec
Montreal
Lombardia
That’s 21 races, meaning Pogacar would need to be clearly favoured in 15 to reach 70%. In which of these races do you favour MVDP?
By flat classics you mean only PR, right? I fail to see other flat classics he won.MVDP easily, he only loses when it’s too much climbing or gets too steep. But he can still win flat classics, while Pogacar can’t.
There are some climbing classics that I don't see MVDP win. Lombardia being one of them. But no, I don't only mean PR. He doesn't need to win them to know he could win them. Gent-Wevelgem for example.By flat classics you mean only PR, right? I fail to see other flat classics he won.
But isn't Pogacar able to win climbing classics while MVP isn't, right? Or flat classics are nore important than climbing classics?
And Pogacar can't win GW or PR? Is this your point?There are some climbing classics that I don't see MVDP win. Lombardia being one of them. But no, I don't only mean PR. He doesn't need to win them to know he could win them. Gent-Wevelgem for example.
I did it mainly to annoy people.I voted Remco for the hell of it. What's the excuse for his other voters?
With Feldberg ending around 90 km before finish and Mammolshain 45 km before the finish I find it very hard to believe this would be a race where Pogacar would win. If I'm right that would mean 8-9 in favour Pogacar.Frankfurt
If just taking this view, which looks pretty realistic, VDP has won and beatenTaking a quick look since we are talking about winning the race while beating the other (it doesn't matter if Pogacar beats MVP if he can't win the classic. I think we both agree on this).
If they both peaked for each race and a good startlist was in the race:
Cadel Evans
De Panne
Copenhagen
Hamburg
These races neither of them would win. Sprint classics.
Omloop
MSR
E3
GW
Dwaars
PR
Quebec
I would favor MVP
SB
AGR
FW
LBL
Frankfurt
CSS
Bretagne
Montreal
GdL
In 16 races, Pogacar would be the favorite to win 9 races, MVP 7 races.
56% - Pogacar
44% - MVP
I didn't add the WC but this year, Pogacar is more favorite to win it.
Feel free to disagree. Even if Bretagne is the only race where I wasn't so sure but the last 70 km are hard (250 km race) and UAE would probably cook MVP before Pogacar's attack.
Edit: There is also a thing important to say. It's easier for Pogacar to win when he is more suited to a race than MVP IMO. In races like GW, Omloop, E3, Dwars, MSR, I can definitely see riders like Pedersen or Wout coming back and win against MVP and Pogacar in a sprint (e.g. E3 2023).
If they made a duel about who gets more wins and both raced to not let the other win in races more suited to the opponent, I'm fairly sure MVP would win very few races. Imagine Pogacar racing like Vingegaard in Col de la Loze, MVP would not win MSR, Omloop, E3, GW, etc. But MVP can't do a damn thing in hilly classics.
I forgot to mention RVV, I think Pogacar is favorite.
7/17: 41%
10/17: 59%
Frankfurt is clearly suited to Pogacar compared to MVP. UAE would drop MVP even before Pogacar's attack. It's a climbing course and favors Pogacar's engine. Who would catch him if he went solo btw?With Feldberg ending around 90 km before finish and Mammolshain 45 km before the finish I find it very hard to believe this would be a race where Pogacar would win. If I'm right that would mean 8-9 in favour Pogacar.
And Cadel Evans Ocean Race has a 1,1 km 8,5 wall like 10 kilometers before the finish. I dont think that would be a "Sprint Classic" if MVDP and Pogacar were on the start list. And in that scenario I would favour MVDP, taking it up to 9-9.
Then if we look at the 3 others, you are likely correct that none of them would win (Hamburg could be completely off the table for MVDP I think), but MVDP would still on paper be better than Pogacar in these 3. If I'm right about Frankfurt and Cadel Evans (we will probably never get the answer) then it should be 12-9 in favour MVDP when looking at WT Classics. That might be slightly optimistic in favour MVDP, but it's at least very far away from your first 70% estimate in favour Pog.
We are in 2025, not in 2021. For some reason MVP doesn't even race SB nowadays.If just taking this view, which looks pretty realistic, VDP has won and beaten
Pogacar in Strade which makes it evens.
Too much vertWe are in 2025, not in 2021. For some reason MVP doesn't even race SB nowadays.