Who is the better Classics cyclist between Tadej Pogačar and Mathieu van der Poel?

[YavorD]

Well, even in the races that MVDP would win (say 8 out of 10 times), Pogacar will likely be top 3 more often than not.
In the races that suit Pogacar (like Lombardia), MVDP doesn't have a realistic chance for top 3.

I think this solves the debate.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Frankfurt is clearly suited to Pogacar compared to MVP. UAE would drop MVP even before Pogacar's attack. It's a climbing course and favors Pogacar's engine. Who would catch him if he went solo btw?

I think you are overestimating the climbs in Frankfurt and there are 45 km flat from Mammolshain to the finish. I think it's obvious it would be hard for Pogacar to stay away here if there is a good start field. It's limited how much time you can gain on Mammolshain which is a 6-7 minute effort, when it's limited possibility to put fatigue into riders like MVDP beforehand.

And even when we give Frankfurt to Pogacar it would still be 11-10 to MVDP head to head.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think you are overestimating the climbs in Frankfurt and there are 45 km flat from Mammolshain to the finish. I think it's obvious it would be hard for Pogacar to stay away here if there is a good start field. It's limited how much time you can gain on Mammolshain which is a 6-7 minute effort, when it's limited possibility to put fatigue into riders like MVDP beforehand.

And even when we give Frankfurt to Pogacar it would still be 11-10 to MVDP head to head.

But in what world would MVP be under 2 minutes in a (almost) 8km climb at 6%, right after doing a 2.5 km climb around 7%? Pogacar would smoke the peloton everyone there and no one would catch him. Name a rider able to catch Pogacar after a hard pace and 2 climbs that together are like 10 km at 6.3%? I'm not even talking about MVP, even Remco wouldn't close a 1' gap to Pogacar alone.
If the World Cup came back to cycling again (and every rider participated in it), which rider would win? I think the answer is clear.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Pogacar easy
He can do it all, if he committed to ‘van der poel classics’ he can win more often than not even in those. But there’s this thing called the Tour de France that he likes to win also and needs a bit of special training.

 

[peterfin]

I voted for MVDP. This is my nuanced and analytical explanation:

The best classic rider should be able to outperform in the biggest one-day races with a top field. Generally these are the monuments, a few WT one-day races with a strong field (such as GW, Amstel and FW) and the championships (EC, WC, OC). MVDP has the most wins and the terrain were he outperforms (spring classics or similar) is also the dominant terrain. Pogacar dominates the hilly classics and Remco's medals in championships shows that he can really peak for those races like no one else but MVDP wins by number of wins and races where he is the favorite.

My view comes with an asterix. Since 2024 Pogacar made a huge jump in performance. If this continuous and others can't catch up, it's clear that he may dominate the classics and continue to challenge MVDP on his terrain. In that case he will become the best classic rider. However, will he be able to keep this up? The explanation (on this part of the forum) is that changes in training methods are boosting his and UAE's performance. But - setting aside whatever made him so dominant - even if he can keep it up, others will likely catch up.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I voted for MVDP. This is my nuanced and analytical explanation:

The best classic rider should be able to outperform in the biggest one-day races with a top field. Generally these are the monuments, a few WT one-day races with a strong field (such as GW, Amstel and FW) and the championships (EC, WC, OC). MVDP has the most wins and the terrain were he outperforms (spring classics or similar) is also the dominant terrain. Pogacar dominates the hilly classics and Remco's medals in championships shows that he can really peak for those races like no one else but MVDP wins by number of wins and races where he is the favorite.

My view comes with an asterix. Since 2024 Pogacar made a huge jump in performance. If this continuous and others can't catch up, it's clear that he may dominate the classics and continue to challenge MVDP on his terrain. In that case he will become the best classic rider. However, will he be able to keep this up? The explanation (on this part of the forum) is that changes in training methods are boosting his and UAE's performance. But - setting aside whatever made him so dominant - even if he can keep it up, others will likely catch up.

MVP has more wins than Pogacar?


What does this even mean?

 

[Berniece]

For some reason MVP doesn't even race SB nowadays.

Because they butchered the race by adding +20% more altitude meters so that only 1 person can win it if he keeps riding it. We'll never get an edition like 2021 again unfortunately.

 

[hayneplane]

I voted for MVDP. This is my nuanced and analytical explanation:

The best classic rider should be able to outperform in the biggest one-day races with a top field. Generally these are the monuments, a few WT one-day races with a strong field (such as GW, Amstel and FW) and the championships (EC, WC, OC). MVDP has the most wins and the terrain were he outperforms (spring classics or similar) is also the dominant terrain. Pogacar dominates the hilly classics and Remco's medals in championships shows that he can really peak for those races like no one else but MVDP wins by number of wins and races where he is the favorite.

My view comes with an asterix. Since 2024 Pogacar made a huge jump in performance. If this continuous and others can't catch up, it's clear that he may dominate the classics and continue to challenge MVDP on his terrain. In that case he will become the best classic rider. However, will he be able to keep this up? The explanation (on this part of the forum) is that changes in training methods are boosting his and UAE's performance. But - setting aside whatever made him so dominant - even if he can keep it up, others will likely catch up.

The bolded part is factually incorrect. According to their respective Wikipedia pages MVDP has 9 one day race wins outside of the monuments and championships and Pogacar has 10.

In addition to that at least 2 of MVDPs wins are basically Belgian chat GPT races of very limited prestige.

 

[fenns]

Because they butchered the race by adding +20% more altitude meters so that only 1 person can win it if he keeps riding it. We'll never get an edition like 2021 again unfortunately.

that's for 2025

22-24 the altitude was similar to previous editions but MVDP didn't feature

 

[Peyroteo94]

Because they butchered the race by adding +20% more altitude meters so that only 1 person can win it if he keeps riding it. We'll never get an edition like 2021 again unfortunately.

According PCS you are wrong (once again). 2022 and 2023 only had 35m (vertical meters) more. Guess what? Pogacar won in 2022 (so he doesn't need a harder course) and MVP was nowhere to be seen in 2023.
2024 and 2025 were editions where were introduced more climbs and for that reason these courses had 500-600m more of vertical meters.


2021

Strade Bianche 2021 One day race results

Strade Bianche 2021 was won by Mathieu van der Poel before Julian Alaphilippe and Egan Bernal.

www.procyclingstats.com

2022

Strade Bianche 2022 One day race results

Strade Bianche 2022 was won by Tadej PogaÄar before Alejandro Valverde and Kasper Asgreen.

www.procyclingstats.com

2023

Strade Bianche 2023 One day race results

Strade Bianche 2023 was won by Thomas Pidcock before Valentin Madouas and Tiesj Benoot.

www.procyclingstats.com

2024

Strade Bianche 2024 One day race results

Strade Bianche 2024 was won by Tadej PogaÄar before Toms SkujiÅÅ¡ and Maxim Van Gils.

www.procyclingstats.com

2025

Strade Bianche 2025 One day race results

Strade Bianche 2025 was won by Tadej PogaÄar before Thomas Pidcock and Tim Wellens.

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[Peyroteo94]

that's for 2025

22-24 the altitude was similar to previous editions but MVDP didn't feature

He participated in 2023. He was completely dropped there.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The bolded part is factually incorrect. According to their respective Wikipedia pages MVDP has 9 one day race wins outside of the monuments and championships and Pogacar has 10.

In addition to that at least 2 of MVDPs wins are basically Belgian chat GPT races of very limited prestige.

I'm also waiting for his answer. Since he used wins as the argument to justify MVP being better, I will wait to see if he will say Pogacar is better.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

The best classic rider should be able to outperform in the biggest one-day races with a top field. Generally these are the monuments, a few WT one-day races with a strong field (such as GW, Amstel and FW) and the championships (EC, WC, OC). MVDP has the most wins and the terrain were he outperforms (spring classics or similar) is also the dominant terrain.

Something went wrong here: In the races you listed, so ignoring the "such as" VDP has 10 wins. 8 monuments, Amstel and WC. If "such" includes E3, it's 12, if it includes Strade Bianche, it's 13, if it includes Dwars it's 15.

Pogacar? 9 monuments, 2 Flèche, 1 Amstel, 1 WC, 13. Nothing changes if you include E3, add Strade Bianche and he's at 16. No Dwars so he still is at 16-15

And then there's nothing to add for VDP basically. Ok, Brabant. But add Brabant, then for Pogacar you can find Emilia, Tre Valli, Montréal.


But of course it's Pogacar. He starts as clear top favorite in 2 monuments. VDP starts as favorite, but not nearly as clearly in 2, and I actually would give him a slight advantage in RVV too. The difference then is, he's hopeless in Lombardia and it would take a LOT of stuff falling into place for him to win Liège, like a team with Remco, who can follow Pogacar and doesn't ride, and Wout who then decides to bury himself for VDP... Pogacar? Sanremo, he can win it. Roubaix the same. It doesn't take that much of a everything going right for him to win it there. And he can win basically all the classics VDP has won. E3? Sure. Harder for him than the Ronde, but on the other hand the field isn't as strong as the main event later. Dwars ok, even harder to win not selective enough, but there really the starting field is weaker again. While for VDP there's countless races that he won't win, he doesn't stand a chance, for Pogacar it's much fewer.

 

[fenns]

He participated in 2023. He was completely dropped there.

Thanks yeah - also for the correction about 2024 also having more altitude.

Probably true that if SB stays at 24 and 25 levels MVDP is not going to enter.

 

[peterfin]

The bolded part is factually incorrect. According to their respective Wikipedia pages MVDP has 9 one day race wins outside of the monuments and championships and Pogacar has 10.

In addition to that at least 2 of MVDPs wins are basically Belgian chat GPT races of very limited prestige.

You are right. PCS lists 15 WT one-day wins for MVDP and 18 for Pogacar (I included their WC title too). Pogacar doubled his number since 2024. My assessment was based on what I remembered. It's easy to lose count 😉

So Pogacar is already leading but it is the 'new Pogacar' that really stands out.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Giulio Ciccone right now.

 

[Berniece]

According PCS you are wrong (once again). 2022 and 2023 only had 35m (vertical meters) more. Guess what? Pogacar won in 2022 (so he doesn't need a harder course) and MVP was nowhere to be seen in 2023.
2024 and 2025 were editions where were introduced more climbs and for that reason these courses had 500-600m more of vertical meters.


2021

Strade Bianche 2021 One day race results

Strade Bianche 2021 was won by Mathieu van der Poel before Julian Alaphilippe and Egan Bernal.

www.procyclingstats.com

2022

Strade Bianche 2022 One day race results

Strade Bianche 2022 was won by Tadej PogaÄar before Alejandro Valverde and Kasper Asgreen.

www.procyclingstats.com

2023

Strade Bianche 2023 One day race results

Strade Bianche 2023 was won by Thomas Pidcock before Valentin Madouas and Tiesj Benoot.

www.procyclingstats.com

2024

Strade Bianche 2024 One day race results

Strade Bianche 2024 was won by Tadej PogaÄar before Toms SkujiÅÅ¡ and Maxim Van Gils.

www.procyclingstats.com

2025

Strade Bianche 2025 One day race results

Strade Bianche 2025 was won by Tadej PogaÄar before Thomas Pidcock and Tim Wellens.

www.procyclingstats.com

I never said starting from 2022…

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

Well, but it's also the recent VDP that stands out. 24-25: 2 Roubaix, 1 Sanremo, 1 Ronde. Also 2 E3.

Pogacar since 21 per season, just monuments: 2-1-2-2-2.

 

[Peyroteo94]

You are right. PCS lists 15 WT one-day wins for MVDP and 18 for Pogacar (I included their WC title too). Pogacar doubled his number since 2024. My assessment was based on what I remembered. It's easy to lose count 😉

So Pogacar is already leading but it is the 'new Pogacar' that really stands out.

The new Pogacar is just a rider entering in his prime. The gap will grow even more, unless he has a bad crash.

 

[peterfin]

I'm also waiting for his answer. Since he used wins as the argument to justify MVP being better, I will wait to see if he will say Pogacar is better.

See my response. So Pogacar is better based on his past performance but my gut feeling still says that MVDP is the best classic rider. Absolute top-field races such as MSR and PR are much less dependend on w/kg capacity. Many more top riders are able to win it. And yet MVDP has won 3x PR and 2x MSR.

 

[Lorzenz08]

MVDP easily, he only loses when it’s too much climbing or gets too steep. But he can still win flat classics, while Pogacar can’t.

Pogi can win PR

 

[Peyroteo94]

I never said starting from 2022…

Because they butchered the race by adding +20% more altitude meters so that only 1 person can win it if he keeps riding it. We'll never get an edition like 2021 again unfortunately.

After this edition, we still had 2 more editions very similar to 2021 so we had similar editions.
In fact 2024 and 2025 have more vertical meters because they increased the lenght of SB by a lot.

 

[YavorD]

I voted fpr Pogacar, but then I was thinking...
Van Der Poel and Pogacar may be great and win as much as they want, but they don't have a race named efter them.
So the only logical choice should be (san) Remco.

 

[Lorzenz08]

Pogi 😍

 

[Peyroteo94]

See my response. So Pogacar is better based on his past performance but my gut feeling still says that MVDP is the best classic rider. Absolute top-field races such as MSR and PR are much less dependend on w/kg capacity. Many more top riders are able to win it. And yet MVDP has won 3x PR and 2x MSR.

What I see is the same thing over and over again. PTSD of Pogacar's dominance, specially those who are Remco fans (not all obviously).
Firstly, you were saying MVP was better because he had more wins. Me and @hayneplane showed with numbers that you were wrong. So the most reasonable thing to say is Pogacar is better because he has more wins (it was you who used this argument to justify your opinion, not me).
But no! You still maintain your opinion based on your gut feeling (ignoring actual facts now).
Incoherence at his best.
Correct me if there is any sense in this.