Who is the better cyclist between Pogacar and Vingegaard?

[proffate]

Slow? It's all relative. Teddy's best TT was Rogla's nightmare.

I didn't call his effort slow. I called his TT bike slow. And this is just a hypothetical based on the notion that somehow stopping then jumping on the road bike was faster than carrying on with the TT bike.

From what I recall he also switched to the road bike to beat roglic that time.

 

[hayneplane]

I think pogacar's TT this year was at least, the same level of 2020 if we forget what Vingegaard did.

Pogacar won 1 min and 13 s to van aert this year in 22 km.

Pogacar won 1 min and 31 s to van aert in 2020, but in 36 km.


He won 1 min and 30 s this year to cavagna in 22 km, in 2020 he won 1 min and 59 s to cavagna, but in 36 km.

In comparation he won more s/km this year to some opponents.

Agreed. Pogacar was excellent in the TT putting huge time into Van Aert and the field. It just doesn’t seem that way because Vingegaard was so insanely all time great level in that TT.

 

[red_flanders]

Whose palmares would you rather have? For me it's easy, Pogačar.

It's totally subjective. If you're a "GT's are the be-all end-all of cycling" fan, it's Vingo by recency and head-to-head. If you're a "Classics are just as important as stage races fan", it's obviously Pogi.

But if you're in the former camp, you're just wrong.

 

[Cassirer]

Is there any cyclist between Pogacar and Vingegaard?
I'd say everyone is well behind them.

Maybe there is a way to argue for mvdp but I think not. Pog best all around, vinge best GT, mvdp best 1 day or something like that. But since mvdp is not clearly better than pog in 1 day racing and is nonexistent in GT racing, while vinge for now seems to quite convincingly have the upper hand on pog regarding GTs, I don't think he fits in between.

 

[Potomac]

Roglic is the best.

 

[Froome]

Roglic is the best.

In the last 500 meters. I agree.

 

[Cookster15]

Whose palmares would you rather have? For me it's easy, Pogačar.

It's totally subjective. If you're a "GT's are the be-all end-all of cycling" fan, it's Vingo by recency and head-to-head. If you're a "Classics are just as important as stage races fan", it's obviously Pogi.

But if you're in the former camp, you're just wrong.

Agree with you, and also on your point of recency bias. I recall here years ago people would decry "July fans". July fans would pick Vingegaard. But fans of cycling should pick Pogačar. He cemented this in his incredible 2023 season despite losing the big one.

I'll also admit whilst I was disappointed Pogi couldn't avenge 2022 in the 2023 TdF, he still rode a great tour all things considered, the stats posted above bench marking Pog against WvA's TT put things into perspective. I still hope with an uninterrupted 2024 preparation we can see Pogi crack Vingegaard at the Tour. Nobody is unbeatable as we discovered with Pog before 2022.

 

[kn0s]

I put draw based on riding qualities. But Ving is boring and Pog is entertaining so Pog is definitely the better to watch. You could only be a Ving fan if you have the intellect of a CPA.

Boring you say, interesting. Because of the races he chooses? He doesn't beat the competition with a big enough margin? He never attacks in his victories?

I'm actually curious what he can do more of to please you. Change nationality, change team, ride more classics, lose more, be more funny in interviews?

 

[proffate]

Boring you say, interesting. Because of the races he chooses? He doesn't beat the competition with a big enough margin? He never attacks in his victories?

I'm actually curious what he can do more of to please you. Change nationality, change team, ride more classics, lose more, be more funny in interviews?

Has nothing to do with nationality but thanks for trying to redirect this discussion into the gutter. Boring because winning based on pure aerobic ability is just not good TV. You have to mix in some amount of good steering, risky tactics, and anaerobic efforts for it to become exciting.

Does it also interest you to stare at Kipchoge for hours on end? If not, why not, is it because of the continent he was born on?

 

[Froome]

Has nothing to do with nationality but thanks for trying to redirect this discussion into the gutter. Boring because winning based on pure aerobic ability is just not good TV. You have to mix in some amount of good steering, risky tactics, and anaerobic efforts for it to become exciting.

Does it also interest you to stare at Kipchoge for hours on end? If not, why not, is it because of the continent he was born on?

What are you talking about? Risky tatics? Vingegaard is constantly attacking from far. He doesn't wait for the last 500 m.

 

[kn0s]

Has nothing to do with nationality but thanks for trying to redirect this discussion into the gutter. Boring because winning based on pure aerobic ability is just not good TV. You have to mix in some amount of good steering, risky tactics, and anaerobic efforts for it to become exciting.

Does it also interest you to stare at Kipchoge for hours on end? If not, why not, is it because of the continent he was born on?

Sometimes you can forgive certain riding styles when you are rooting for a countryman, I think the Portuguese might even root for Rui Costa.

What I can gather from your reasons is that you don't fancy stage racing. I'll be hard pressed to find a more agressiv stage racer than Jonas this year, but I agree that he does not need much in the risky tactics department, when he is as strong as he is.

 

[Froome]

Sometimes you can forgive certain riding styles when you are rooting for a countryman, I think the Portuguese might even root for Rui Costa.

What I can gather from your reasons is that you don't fancy stage racing. I'll be hard pressed to find a more agressiv stage racer than Jonas this year, but I agree that he does not need much in the risky tactics department, when he is as strong as he is.

I'm portuguese and i'm not root for rui costa, i don't like his style of racing.

 

[Elos Anjos]

I'm Portuguese and I root for Rui Costa:

1) because he is Portuguese and every small sucess in the Pro Peloton would help boost the sport in Portugal;
2) because he in fact is a cunning racer with oustanding hermeneutical skills and the cold blood necessary to deliver.

 

[proffate]

Sometimes you can forgive certain riding styles when you are rooting for a countryman, I think the Portuguese might even root for Rui Costa.

What I can gather from your reasons is that you don't fancy stage racing. I'll be hard pressed to find a more agressiv stage racer than Jonas this year, but I agree that he does not need much in the risky tactics department, when he is as strong as he is.

I am American and I did not enjoy watching Lance. OTOH, there were times when Contador or Nibali made stage racing exciting. Country of origin is one of the last reasons I'd support a rider. Stage racing is fine, although yes, the GC part of it is underwhelming to me.

The point I made is not whether you should be allowed to root for V. It's that he is boring to watch, and you haven't really made an argument to contradict that point. Jingoism might be arousing to you, but the spectacle is still not dramatic. The world does need CPAs, after all. For now at least.

 

[ManicJack]

The point I made is not whether you should be allowed to root for V. It's that he is boring to watch, and you haven't really made an argument to contradict that point.

So let me get this straight. If someone isn't capable of changing your opinion, they are wrong.

 

[rallybanana]

Well show us the picture of Pogacar and Vingegaard with a better rider between them, and we'll see if we can identify him (or her).