Who makes quality bikes?

[veganrob]

Know many people with Cross Check, are all pleased. I however have my eye on the All City Nature Boy.
http://allcitycycles.com/bikes/nature_boy1

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

What about the Surly cross'check peeps? Any expeience?

How does 12 years of Cross Check experience sound?

 

[Bustedknuckle]

The De Rosa Primato is an amazing-looking bike, a real blend of innovation and retro. What is it, stainless, Ti? What about the forks?

I had forks just like that on a Cinelli made of Colombus SL. On rough roads the bends would actually bend like suspension. Still the finest bike I've ever had and will eventually return to steel.

Till then, the carbon Cannondale is fine. I can't fault it. Comfortable, responsive and stiff enough. Looks alright too.

Steel, Columbus EL-OS, steel fork, for the original Primato. The NeoPrimato is also steel, not stainless.

 

[Wallace]

Independent Fabrications (http://ifbikes.com/) makes some very nice bikes. I'd love to have one of their stainless steel frames. Some posters here might have a headful of hate for them because they make the Rapha bike, but I've know people who ridden their steel frames for years.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

What about the Surly cross'check peeps? Any expeience?

Heavy but fun to ride. I put many miles on mine, both as a cross racer and as a winter bike.

 

[kuoirad]

When I mentioned my Pake C'mute the other day, I meant to post a picture, but couldn't find it. Just found it, so...

behold the Stealth Bike.

 

[42x16ss]

What about the Surly cross'check peeps? Any expeience?

Possibly the best dirt road/Touring/Winter and Rain bike I've ridden. Could race 'cross on one if you had to as well.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Independent Fabrications (http://ifbikes.com/) makes some very nice bikes. I'd love to have one of their stainless steel frames. Some posters here might have a headful of hate for them because they make the Rapha bike, but I've know people who ridden their steel frames for years.

FYI All the builders that made IF what it is today have left and started their own compay, Firefly Bicycles Some of the best Ti and stainless steel bikes on the planet are being fabricated there.

 

[Wallace]

FYI All the builders that made IF what it is today have left and started their own compay, Firefly Bicycles Some of the best Ti and stainless steel bikes on the planet are being fabricated there.

Thanks for the tip. I'd never heard of the company--but their frames put IF to shame. Those are some gorgeous bikes. Now I need to start convincing my wife that I really *need* a new frame.

I know that some of the guys who started IF migrated over from Fat Chance (and I think there was some Merlin overlap? At one point both the Fat/Slim Chance shop and the Merlin shop were in the same building in Somerville. The Boston bike scene is pretty small that way)--are any of the same guys at Firefly?

 

[Notso Swift]

I would also throw Ciocc into the ring with the guys listed on the first page for reasonably sized manufactures as opposed to small "independents"
(not that there is anything wrong with that if it is what you want)

 

[LugHugger]

FYI All the builders that made IF what it is today have left and started their own compay, Firefly Bicycles Some of the best Ti and stainless steel bikes on the planet are being fabricated there.

I thought that IF was a cooperative that had a fairly regular turnover of builders and painters? Not sure how this has affected IF quality over the years, would be interested on people's thoughts tho.

 

[richwagmn]

Not to hijack this thread, but what is it about the different materials (Ti, Steel and Aluminum) that causes the welds to look so different? Ti welds are beautiful while aluminum welds look they came out of toothpaste tube.

 

[42x16ss]

AFAIK the difference is in the slag point(?) of each material. Aluminium welds at a much lower temperature than steel and titanium so there is more material that "melts" into the weld, while titanium needs to be heated evenly to a fairly high temperature just to be able to weld it at all.

I'm not a welder or engineer, somebody such as Fiemme might be able to explain it a little better.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

FYI All the builders that made IF what it is today have left and started their own compay, Firefly Bicycles Some of the best Ti and stainless steel bikes on the planet are being fabricated there.

Wow, their stuff is superb. Thanks for posting the link.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

FYI All the builders that made IF what it is today have left and started their own compay, Firefly Bicycles Some of the best Ti and stainless steel bikes on the planet are being fabricated there.

Yowser, expensive and w/o a dealer margin.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/13935357?title=0&byline=0&portrait=0&color=ffffff" width="400" height="225" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/13935357">Of Steel</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/raphafilms">RAPHA</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

 

[DirtyWorks]

AFAIK the difference is in the slag point(?) of each material. Aluminium welds at a much lower temperature than steel and titanium so there is more material that "melts" into the weld, while titanium needs to be heated evenly to a fairly high temperature just to be able to weld it at all.

I'm not a welder or engineer, somebody such as Fiemme might be able to explain it a little better.

IMO, it's down to the behavior of the alloy when it melts. I've joined aluminum and steel alloys and aluminum just melts differently. It also depends somewhat on the join methods, MIG or TIG and all the variables that go into setting up the welding. I am many years away from all of that, so it's probably different by now.

 

[Fiemme]

Not to hijack this thread, but what is it about the different materials (Ti, Steel and Aluminum) that causes the welds to look so different? Ti welds are beautiful while aluminum welds look they came out of toothpaste tube.

As 42x16 said aluminium melts at a lower temperature, but also transfer heat at a faster rate therefore enormous amounts of energy are required to fuse the join, ie lots of heat quickly. Lots of heat slowly will cause the whoel tube to melt. Titanium and Stainless Steel heat transfer capabilties are quite low but melts at a substantially higer temperature. Therefore the heat being applied through the weld does not transfer down the tube and is concentrated at the join resulting in a 'nice' weld. The amount of energy used to weld Titanium is far less than the energy require to weld aluminium. From a TIG welding point of view aluminium is quite hard to weld compared with titanium or stainless steel.

The 'Toothpaste' effect is un-avoidable with aluminium. However a good welder can make it look good. I would also avoid buying aluminium bikes that have had the welding filed down or ground smooth. This removes small amounts of the weld that can be critical to the intergrity of the weld. I would be more confident in riding an aluminium bike with 'Toothpaste' welds than one that looks smooth.

But then again I wouldn't ride an aluminium bike.

 

[fasthill]

But then again I wouldn't ride an aluminium bike.

Can you explain why? (genuine question)

 

[CobbleStoner]

Russ Denny!

 

[Notso Swift]

IMO, it's down to the behavior of the alloy when it melts. I've joined aluminum and steel alloys and aluminum just melts differently.

I find the simplest way to get the message across to people who haven't welded before is to say Aluminum melts from the inside while steel melts from the outside

(I have never welded bikes BTW, but fair bit of other stuff)

 

[Fiemme]

Can you explain why? (genuine question)

Aluminium is generally refered to a course metal. Its fatigue life is very short. It work harden's very quickly. This creates a rigid frame without much 'give'. You can bend aluminium but try and bend that back into shape and it will crack. You also have the issue of electrolysis which is worse with aluminium than it is with any other material.

The durability of aluminium is nothing compared to steel. Some of the high grade "Aircraft" alumnium that is available can eleviate soem of the problems but it is still a course grade metal.

 

[dolophonic]

i understand what you are saying re Aluminium but must add that one of my favorite bikes was an Al Bianchi FG lite. A great bike. Rough ride but a great frame.

 

[avanti]

Properly designed and processed welded joints in aluminum are strong, tough, and have great fatigue life - the key is using the correct aluminum such as 6061-T6 (used by Cannondale) which is also used for some aircraft construction.

However I would never buy a welded 7000 series aluminum alloy frame.

 

[42x16ss]

i understand what you are saying re Aluminium but must add that one of my favorite bikes was an Al Bianchi FG lite. A great bike. Rough ride but a great frame.

Frame design and geometry has much more effect on the characteristics of a bike than the frame material. The length, angle and even diameter of the tubes used all make more difference than the frame material.