Who (out of the favourites) do you want to win the tour?

[c&cfan]

shall we leave the F1 talk to the cafe?


1-Anyway, I voted Gesink, but really I would also be very happy if Vino or Evans won it. I wouldn't mind too much if Contador won it, just for him to attempt the triple, although I doubt he would really try to do that.

well, we were establishing some parallels between F1 and cycling. don't you find our discussion interesting?

2- i don't see what there's to like about gesink. only if you are dutch. vino, everyone would like that. evans?no so much.. I don't want to see him wining just because it would be nice.

contador would be amazing.

 

[c&cfan]

Exactly. It's like wandering around some dismal midlands town in Britain and finding that more kids are wearing Manchester United jerseys than the jerseys of their local team. Just depressing.

To answer the original question, of the two riders with a realistic chance of winning, I'd prefer to see Schleck win. Of the riders with a very marginal but still just about conceivable chance of winning, I'd like to see Evans or Gesink win.

yes.. he is a truly underdog right? how do you explain your choice besides not liking contador because you want to be different? if you are from luxemburg, i understand. otherwise you are being hypocrite, i guess. but let's wait for your answer.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

yes.. he is a truly underdog right? how do you explain your choice besides not liking contador because you want to be different? if you are from luxemburg, i understand. otherwise you are being hypocrite, i guess. but let's wait for your answer.

I don't want to see Schleck win at all. In fact, I'd put him second last on the list presented in the poll.

But in a straight race between him and Contador, I'll choose him because (a) he's never won a Grand Tour, (b) in that field of two he's the underdog as demonstrated repeatedly in previous Tours, (c) he isn't riding despite a doping positive.

Saying that Schleck isn't the underdog to Contador is like saying that Ullrich wasn't the underdog to Armstrong or Poulidor wasn't the underdog to Anquetil.

 

[El Pistolero]

I don't want to see Schleck win at all. In fact, I'd put him second last on the list presented in the poll.

But in a straight race between him and Contador, I'll choose him because (a) he's never won a Grand Tour, (b) in that field of two he's the underdog as demonstrated repeatedly in previous Tours, (c) he isn't riding despite a doping positive.

Saying that Schleck isn't the underdog to Contador is like saying that Ullrich wasn't the underdog to Armstrong or Poulidor wasn't the underdog to Anquetil.

Poulidor was the underdog of Eddy Merckx as well

 

[No_Balls]

As for Contador, I don't understand why so many people want him to win. Not because of the reasons why I dislike him, but because rooting for the big guy sounds so boring.

Let me see

- A humble, noble and generous champion.
-Not afraid of targeting the big ones outside July
-Spectacular aggressive rider with determination of attack.
-Have a genuine passion for cycling in general and seems to respect its history.
-Big goals. Targeting the double or even the triple is nothing what we have seen for many, many years. And not being afraid of doing so.
-Could write cycling history, even this year. It is always nice as a aficionado being around then.
-A spectacular beautiful style on a bike. Yes, Contador and climbing is art.

I wonder what´s not to like?

 

[Hugo Koblet]

I voted Evans. Don't know why exactly. I've never liked him that much in the past, but lately I've started to like him.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Let me see

- A humble, noble and generous champion.
-Not afraid of targeting the big ones outside July
-Spectacular aggressive rider with determination of attack.
-Have a genuine passion for cycling in general and seems to respect its history.
-Big goals. Targeting the double or even the triple is nothing what we have seen for many, many years. And not being afraid of doing so.
-Could write cycling history, even this year. It is always nice as a aficionado being around then.
-A spectacular beautiful style on a bike. Yes, Contador and climbing is art.

I wonder what´s not to like?

I presume you wear a Barcelona jersey too. And cheered Schumacher on through every moment of soul-crushing Formula 1 tedium.

 

[No_Balls]

I presume you wear a Barcelona jersey too. And cheered Schumacher on through every moment of soul-crushing Formula 1 tedium.

Come on, you can do better then that.

It was a question and i gave my humble and honest response.

*No i don´t like Barcelona and Schumacher? Aren´t you suppose to cheer for Vettel these days?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

It was a question and i gave my humble and honest response.

What does your humility and honesty have to do with anything?

 

[No_Balls]

What does your humility and honesty have to do with anything?

Sorry, but who are you to question my reasons of liking/disliking a rider?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

8- I agree. however i don't see you as a hater or me has a fanboy, what is pretty clear is that you hate dominance in every single sport. right?

Dominance begets boredom. If you know what will happen before watching it, it's no fun to watch. I can appreciate the skill involved in what happens, but it doesn't interest me.

I would rather watch Athletic Bilbao and Osasuna fight a close match than Barcelona dismantle someone 5-0.

I would rather watch a chaotic, closely-fought sprint in the Tour of an industrial estate in Cantanhede, where nobody knows who will win, than a tightly controlled HTC love-in in the Tour de France.

I would rather watch the 2010 Giro d'Italia than the 2011 Giro d'Italia.

And I would rather watch Lewis Hamilton (another guy I don't like) win the title in the rain on the final lap of the final race by overtaking a guy gambling on slicks, than watch Michael Schumacher cruise to win the title by the time we get to the Hungaroring against competition consisting of one guy who is contractually obliged to pull over and let him past.

I like my sporting favourites to be talented, but have flaws. Not personality flaws that make them dominant automatons, but that mean you have the chance of victory, but it will always be nervous. Alejandro Valverde, for example - great rider, but with a tendency to do something stupid and throw it away at the strangest possible time. Igor Antón - great climber, dreadful bike handler. Magdalena Neuner - fastest in the sport on the skis, woeful in the standing shoot. Juan Pablo Montoya - high energy, boundless talent, carves through the field... but you always feel like he's only half a second away from sticking it in the barriers.

 

[veganrob]

Let me see

- A humble, noble and generous champion.
-Not afraid of targeting the big ones outside July
-Spectacular aggressive rider with determination of attack.
-Have a genuine passion for cycling in general and seems to respect its history.
-Big goals. Targeting the double or even the triple is nothing what we have seen for many, many years. And not being afraid of doing so.
-Could write cycling history, even this year. It is always nice as a aficionado being around then.
-A spectacular beautiful style on a bike. Yes, Contador and climbing is art.

I wonder what´s not to like?

Describes AC very well

 

[El Pistolero]

Dominance begets boredom. If you know what will happen before watching it, it's no fun to watch. I can appreciate the skill involved in what happens, but it doesn't interest me.

I would rather watch Athletic Bilbao and Osasuna fight a close match than Barcelona dismantle someone 5-0.

I would rather watch a chaotic, closely-fought sprint in the Tour of an industrial estate in Cantanhede, where nobody knows who will win, than a tightly controlled HTC love-in in the Tour de France.

I would rather watch the 2010 Giro d'Italia than the 2011 Giro d'Italia.

And I would rather watch Lewis Hamilton (another guy I don't like) win the title in the rain on the final lap of the final race by overtaking a guy gambling on slicks, than watch Michael Schumacher cruise to win the title by the time we get to the Hungaroring against competition consisting of one guy who is contractually obliged to pull over and let him past.

1 Alberto Contador (ESP) Discovery Channel 91h 00' 26"
2 Cadel Evans (AUS) Predictor-Lotto + 23"
3 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Discovery Channel + 31"

---

1 Alberto Contador (ESP) Astana 89h 56' 49"
2 Riccardo Riccò (ITA) Saunier Duval-Scott + 1' 57"
3 Marzio Bruseghin (ITA) Lampre + 2' 54"

---

1 Alberto Contador (ESP) Astana 80h 40' 08"
2 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Astana + 46"
3 Carlos Sastre (ESP) Team CSC Saxo Bank + 4' 12"

---

1 Alberto Contador (ESP) Astana 91h 58' 48"
2 Andy Schleck (LUX) Team Saxo Bank + 39"
3 Denis Menchov (RUS) Rabobank + 2' 01"

 

[veganrob]

Dominance begets boredom. If you know what will happen before watching it, it's no fun to watch. I can appreciate the skill involved in what happens, but it doesn't interest me.

Dominance begets boredom. Totally agree. It also begets hatred. But it is up to the others to devise a plan to beat him. Up till now they haven't. I am not a frontrunner by any means. i just like his style of racing. Agressive, no fear. And he has done it without having powerful teams backing him up.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

What's your point, Pistolet? I wasn't bored by Contador then. The 2008 Giro, for example, was great.

However, the 2011 Giro was less exciting. The 2009 Tour was also dull, but that wasn't Contador's fault, that was a dreadful parcours. If Contador arrives at races in 2011 Giro form I will swiftly get bored of him.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Sorry, but who are you to question my reasons of liking/disliking a rider?

Someone on a discussion forum. If you don't want your opinions questioned, don't present them.

 

[c&cfan]

Dominance begets boredom. If you know what will happen before watching it, it's no fun to watch. I can appreciate the skill involved in what happens, but it doesn't interest me.

I would rather watch Athletic Bilbao and Osasuna fight a close match than Barcelona dismantle someone 5-0.

I would rather watch a chaotic, closely-fought sprint in the Tour of an industrial estate in Cantanhede, where nobody knows who will win, than a tightly controlled HTC love-in in the Tour de France.

I would rather watch the 2010 Giro d'Italia than the 2011 Giro d'Italia.

And I would rather watch Lewis Hamilton (another guy I don't like) win the title in the rain on the final lap of the final race by overtaking a guy gambling on slicks, than watch Michael Schumacher cruise to win the title by the time we get to the Hungaroring against competition consisting of one guy who is contractually obliged to pull over and let him past.

I like my sporting favourites to be talented, but have flaws. Not personality flaws that make them dominant automatons, but that mean you have the chance of victory, but it will always be nervous. Alejandro Valverde, for example - great rider, but with a tendency to do something stupid and throw it away at the strangest possible time. Igor Antón - great climber, dreadful bike handler. Magdalena Neuner - fastest in the sport on the skis, woeful in the standing shoot. Juan Pablo Montoya - high energy, boundless talent, carves through the field... but you always feel like he's only half a second away from sticking it in the barriers.

i see... i understand and i admire your point of view. it was a really nice discussion, thank you , i didn't think that it was this good to discuss all things with you.

p.s- i think that i am going to get banned.

 

[c&cfan]

. ....If you don't want your opinions questioned, don't present them.

the thing is, you are behaving like a stupid person. but what can we expect to someone that's nothing more than "Someone on a discussion forum" and talks to aliens? you can't see when you are wrong (that happens a lot), you have no valid arguments and you behave a hypocrite. what does it makes you? i won't say.

---------------------------------------------------

pisti, i am asking myself if libertine is married. lol it seems like those women with problems related to tedium

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Dominance begets boredom. Totally agree. It also begets hatred. But it is up to the others to devise a plan to beat him. Up till now they haven't. I am not a frontrunner by any means. i just like his style of racing. Agressive, no fear. And he has done it without having powerful teams backing him up.

I don't have anything against Contador for continuing to race to win. I'm just explaining why I won't be supporting him.

I haven't yet got to the "oh ffs him again!!!" stage with Contador, and I may never do (some more likable champions can be like that) - but I would still like somebody to be able to step up to the plate and challenge him, I feel it will make future races more interesting.

What have been the most exciting stages Contador's been involved in lately? Mostly the ones where he's shown some kind of weakness (Alto del Morredero last year, Paris-Nice '09, Bordeaux ITT last year) or has been isolated with people unafraid to attack him (the aforementioned two, Rifugio Gardeccia), or has done something unexpected (Tropea).

 

[c&cfan]

I don't have anything against Contador for continuing to race to win. I'm just explaining why I won't be supporting him.

I haven't yet got to the "oh ffs him again!!!" stage with Contador, and I may never do (some more likable champions can be like that) - but I would still like somebody to be able to step up to the plate and challenge him, I feel it will make future races more interesting.

What have been the most exciting stages Contador's been involved in lately? Mostly the ones where he's shown some kind of weakness (Alto del Morredero last year, Paris-Nice '09, Bordeaux ITT last year) or has been isolated with people unafraid to attack him (the aforementioned two, Rifugio Gardeccia), or has done something unexpected (Tropea).

in order to some stages to be seem as epic, we need the boredom ones, otherwise they will loose all meaning and it will become a patience game.

we need sprints to enjoy the mountains and the decisive moments. we need ruthless warriors like armstrong to enjoy noble champions like indurain.

you don't have the right to even try to chance that.

if you have 8 orgasms per day, it is good, but you won't remember any of them when you are 80 and eventually they will loose their meaning with time. in order to be something great, breath taking, you have to dream about it, being almost killed by the desire before it happens.

same with mountains.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

in order to some stages to be seem as epic, we need the boredom ones, otherwise they will loose all meaning and it will become a patience game.

we need sprints to enjoy the mountains and the decisive moments. we need ruthless warriors like armstrong to enjoy noble champions like indurain.

you don't have the right to even try to chance that.

if you have 8 orgasms per day, it is good, but you won't remember any of them when you are 80 and eventually they will loose their meaning with time. in order to be something great, breath taking, you have to dream about it, being almost killed by the desire before it happens.

same with mountains.

At the same time, if you win every race you ever enter, you won't remember any of them as special and eventually they lose their meaning with time.

For somebody like David Arroyo, finishing 2nd in the Giro last year is something that he'll remember for his whole life. To Alberto Contador, winning it this year is just another feather in a cap that's already coated in them. And that's why I root for the people like Arroyo.

 

[thirteen]

Someone on a discussion forum. If you don't want your opinions questioned, don't present them.

you really are just being completely rude.

it's a discussion forum, yes. but attack the content of the post, not the poster.

Libertine Seguros intelligently answered why he gets bored with dominance. a much more fitting response than yours.

 

[c&cfan]

At the same time, if you win every race you ever enter, you won't remember any of them as special and eventually they lose their meaning with time.

For somebody like David Arroyo, finishing 2nd in the Giro last year is something that he'll remember for his whole life. To Alberto Contador, winning it this year is just another feather in a cap that's already coated in them. And that's why I root for the people like Arroyo.

don't go that far.. you don't need to just have an orgasm per year you know

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

you really are just being completely rude.

That far, I've been called "a pathetic person", "a loser", "a stupid person", "a hypocrite" and a few other things in the space of about twenty minutes. You'll have to forgive me if my levels of tolerance and forbearance are perhaps not all that they could be.

I have a mild distaste for the attitudes of people who habitually cheer for dominant favourites. Not for people who happen to have followed the career of someone from long before they were a dominant competitor and has always retained a soft sport for that individual. But for people whose general approach to sport is to associate themselves with the most predictable winners, hiding their own insecurities by basking in reflected glory.

There are many things wrong with the fan culture of a sport like football, but one of the admirable things about it is a general dislike of people who follow one of the most successful clubs despite not being from that town. "Glory hunting" is common, but also seen as something which deserves ridicule.

 

[c&cfan]

That far, I've been called "a pathetic person", "a loser", "a stupid person", "a hypocrite" and a few other things in the space of about twenty minutes. You'll have to forgive me if my levels of tolerance and forbearance are perhaps not all that they could be.

I have a mild distaste for the attitudes of people who habitually cheer for dominant favourites. Not for people who happen to have followed the career of someone from long before they were a dominant competitor and has always retained a soft sport for that individual. But for people whose general approach to sport is to associate themselves with the most predictable winners, hiding their own insecurities by basking in reflected glory.

There are many things wrong with the fan culture of a sport like football, but one of the admirable things about it is a general dislike of people who follow one of the most successful clubs despite not being from that town. "Glory hunting" is common, but also seen as something which deserves ridicule.

that's totally wrong and you misunderstood me! i apologize for that. what i was trying to say is completely different.

you are behaving like a ""a pathetic person", "a loser", "a stupid person", "a hypocrite" and a few other things in the space of about twenty minutes"

i hope we are cool now. have a nice weekend.