Who will TT better in this years tour. Evans, Menchov or Wiggins?

[Fetisoff]

Even ASO doesn't.

Well, I knew there were no routes up on the site, but since the start and finish towns are known and the total number of kms as well, someone might have taken the time to map out the route, I'm too lazy for that myself

 

[DenisMenchov]

Well, I knew there were no routes up on the site, but since the start and finish towns are known and the total number of kms as well, someone might have taken the time to map out the route, I'm too lazy for that myself

Maybe it will look like this.


http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/fullscreen/70328036/

 

[Gloin22]

No point using old results as Wiggo is different rider now much more improved imo than he was back at Garmin

 

[DenisMenchov]

No point using old results as Wiggo is different rider now much more improved imo than he was back at Garmin

He only finished Tour 2009 in 4th place. While he was 23rd in 2010, and DNF in 2011, great improvment.

 

[The Hitch]

He only finished Tour 2009 in 4th place. While he was 23rd in 2010, and DNF in 2011, great improvment.

As a pope fan im not sure your in the best place to treat q crash as regression

 

[Gloin22]

He only finished Tour 2009 in 4th place. While he was 23rd in 2010, and DNF in 2011, great improvment.

As well as winning Dauhpine, 3rd PN and 3rd at Vuelta after his first race back from the crash beating Menchov easily in 2011

 

[DenisMenchov]

As well as winning Dauhpine, 3rd PN and 3rd at Vuelta after his first race back from the crash beating Menchov easily in 2011

I don't understand what does Dauphine has to do with LE TOUR DE FRANCE TT???

Infact, Wiggins lost more time to Menchov in mountains and TT combined (rewatch Angliru stage, he was really destroying Denis there), he was only in front of him due to the fact that Menchov was working for his team-mate and he also lost some time when peloton split.

 

[Richeypen]

I don't understand what does Dauphine has to do with LE TOUR DE FRANCE TT???

Infact, Wiggins lost more time to Menchov in mountains and TT combined (rewatch Angliru stage, he was really destroying Denis there), he was only in front of him due to the fact that Menchov was working for his team-mate and he also lost some time when peloton split.

Because he said 'No point using old results as Wiggo is different rider now much more improved imo than he was back at Garmin'

Nothing to do with the Tour. Last year Wiggins scored 1322 CQ points, 2009 he scored 786. He has progressed a lot.

 

[DenisMenchov]

Because he said 'No point using old results as Wiggo is different rider now much more improved imo than he was back at Garmin'

Nothing to do with the Tour. Last year Wiggins scored 1322 CQ points, 2009 he scored 786. He has progressed a lot.

He might have the sprint of Cav, hill acceleration of Gilbert, but he is same or evren worse in TT. Again CQ points are irelevant.

Thread is very clear Who will win the battle of the Time Triallists? So a way to discuse it is to look at their previous TTs agains each other in GTs they were all fit.

 

[Richeypen]

He might have the sprint of Cav, hill acceleration of Gilbert, but he is same or evrnworse in TT. Again CQ points are irelevant.

Thread is very clear Who will win the battle of the Time Triallists? So the only way to discuse it is to look at their previous TTs agains each other in GTs they were all fit.

Spurious argument.

 

[DenisMenchov]

Spurious argument.

I changed that.

 

[Richeypen]

If that GT was last year then thats fair enough. Too much has changed to all the riders since those results to use it as an accurate yard stick IMO.

 

[DenisMenchov]

OK, since Wiggins is considered GC rider, he never took more than minute to Menchov. And that was in last years Vuelta, where Wigging was going for overall and Denis didn't. He also beaten Menchov by 18 seconds in Tour 2010 TT, but Menchov had worse wind + was going for GC, rode Tourmallet much harder... On the other hand Menchov took 2 minutes in Giro 2009 hilly TT, also going for the GC. So all in all I think Menchov will do better.

 

[Froome19]

If that GT was last year then thats fair enough. Too much has changed to all the riders since those results to use it as an accurate yard stick IMO.

Exactly thats why if I wasn't British I would have voted for Evans because his most recent TT where he was at top form he absolutely bombed the opposition and nearly beat the unbeatable Martin (when in form), in a proper GT time trial, I do not believe that anyone of the other 2 could beat that, so from recent perfomances I would certainly have to go for Evans

 

[Gloin22]

OK, since Wiggins is considered GC rider, he never took more than minute to Menchov. And that was in last years Vuelta, where Wigging was going for overall and Denis didn't. He also beaten Menchov by 18 seconds in Tour 2010 TT, but Menchov had worse wind + was going for GC, rode Tourmallet much harder... On the other hand Menchov took 2 minutes in Giro 2009 hilly TT, also going for the GC. So all in all I think Menchov will do better.

But you said he was worse or same TT'er but Wiggo beat him close to a minute ? Doesn't make sense

It was also Stage 10 and Cobo wasn't in leader jerseys then so he didn't have to do a big deal for Cobo btw

 

[Froome19]

But you said he was worse or same TT'er but Wiggo beat him close to a minute ? Doesn't make sense

It was also Stage 10 and Cobo wasn't in leader jerseys then so he didn't have to do a big deal for Cobo btw

TBH, I think Menchov for some reason was not at his best yet then and only really was peaked at Angliru (5 stages after), whilst Wiggins was in very good form.
You could argue though that there is even more to come from Wiggins than his Vuelta perfomance, which I think is quiet obvious.
Also though that TT was on stage 10 the tours final one which at 52km will probably be the most decisive is stage 20 and so thats a whole different kettle of fish...

 

[DenisMenchov]

His TT in 2009 Tour was way better than in 2010. That's why he is same or worse.

If you paid attention, Cobo started the race wearing bib number 61, he was the leader from the start.

 

[Froome19]

Does anyone have the supposed profile of that hilly time-trial?

best I can find is this one which was the profile of a TT in the 2004 tour which was won by Armstrong and it finished as well in Basencon
http://www.roadcycling.com/events/tdf2004/stage_19.shtml

 

[Gloin22]

His TT in 2009 Tour was way better than in 2010. That's why he is same or worse.

If you paid attention, Cobo started the race wearing bib number 61, he was the leader from the start.

Yea, but we are in 2012 and Wiggo proved to be better TT'er in 2011

Numbers don't mean anything. Arvesen had 181 but it was obvious he wasn't Sky GC hopeful at the start.

 

[DenisMenchov]

Yea, but we are in 2012 and Wiggo proved to be better TT'er in 2011

Numbers don't mean anything. Arvesen had 181 but it was obvious he wasn't Sky GC hopeful at the start.

Maybe to you they don't, but for riders it sure does. Hence Cobo felt that he was the leader even though he was in the same team as Menchov and Sastre. Tell me why did Wiggins wear number 188 at Vuelta 2011 and 58 at Tour 2009, if it doesn't mean anything?

 

[richtea]

He might have the sprint of Cav, hill acceleration of Gilbert, but he is same or evren worse in TT. Again CQ points are irelevant.

Thread is very clear Who will win the battle of the Time Triallists? So a way to discuse it is to look at their previous TTs agains each other in GTs they were all fit.

Quick check of CQ says Wiggins has 9-6 head to head over Menchov in GT TTs

 

[richtea]

Maybe to you they don't, but for riders it sure does. Hence Cobo felt that he was the leader even though he was in the same team as Menchov and Sastre. Tell me why did Wiggins wear number 188 at Vuelta 2011 and 58 at Tour 2009, if it doesn't mean anything?

Alphabetical order? Zandio 189 no doubt

 

[Gloin22]

Alphabetical order? Zandio 189 no doubt

Exactly Denis think before you write Sky doesn't do that for many races but they do occasionally.

 

[adamski101]

Exactly Denis think before you write Sky doesn't do that for many races but they do occasionally.

actually think that Arvesen was given 181 as it was scheduled to be his last race (excpet for world champs) before retirement.

 

[Gloin22]

actually think that Arvesen was given 181 as it was scheduled to be his last race (excpet for world champs) before retirement.

Sure enough possible, but the names were in order and Wiggins got 188 not because he preferred it and he had 58 at Tour in 2009. And that you have 1, 11, 21, 31 on your starlist doesn't mean you are the leader of the team, most of the times yes, but not all.

181 ARVESEN Kurt-Asle NOR
182 CIONI Dario David ITA
183 FROOME Christopher GBR
184 LÖVKVIST Thomas SWE
185 POSSONI Morris ITA
186 STANNARD Ian GBR
187 SUTTON Christopher AUS
188 WIGGINS Bradley