Who would win if TDF was raced as TT ???

[Angliru]

and lance prime [as above] would beat contador prime. ouch thats gonna upset some people round here.

You're not worthy of your Gumbi avatar.

 

[cineteq]

Just in case you forgot, that's how he lost the Tour multiple times already

So did most of the peloton LOL!
In any case, that's why his wife wrote this:

 

[The Hitch]

The most interesting thing isnt who would win it, it is who out of the pro peloton would be mentally strong enough to keep going in the second or third week.

I think all riders are extremely strong mentaly though.

Which riders are the strongest mentaly is an interesting question. Its difficult to judge who is because we cant alway see it.

If i had to pick i would actually pick Gesink as very strong mentaly.

Others are Chris Horner and Nibali. I think Samu was strong to perform like he did at the Tour after the way he was treated. Cadel I admit was very strong mentaly this Tour, especially on 18. And of course Contador. Attacking from 96km out just for fun is a level of mental endurance the kgb would have been proud of.

 

[Martin318is]

If Cadel Evans had the legs he would have tried to put some more distance between him and the Schlecks. But let's be honest, we all know Evans can't do 7km solos on a MTF and stay away.

I suggest you DO go back and review the stage. Given the amount of time that Cadel was forced to spend in a solo chase (towing a bunch of rivals) only an idiot would attempt to assist his closest rival to chase down someone who is under control.

Gains? a few seconds - maybe 20 or so
Risks? Any one of half a dozen people inluding his 1st or 2nd greatest threats uses it as a springboard and takes time out of him.

Either way, the smartest thing to do is do the absolute minimum to work in Andy's preferred environment and save the energy to use in his own preferred environment (the TT)

YES we KNOW that Andy and Contador can out accelerate him up a mountain. This hypothetical race however involves GRINDING up a few hundred km of hills spread out amongst ove 3,000km of NOT hills

 

[The Hitch]

I suggest you DO go back and review the stage. Given the amount of time that Cadel was forced to spend in a solo chase (towing a bunch of rivals) only an idiot would attempt to assist his closest rival to chase down someone who is under control.

I agree that Cadels move was the right one. I dont know why El Pistolero thinks Cadel should have attacked when keeping both Schlecks next to him was the aim from the start.

But I will point out that Cadels main rival lost significantly more energy than Cadel the day before. I half expected Andy not to even make it over the telegraph after the 65k solo the day before.

I also think the only rival Cadel towed up Galibier was Frank Schleck. The others were too far behind on gc that day, and Voeckler was not going to survive Alpe and a tt.

By that point it was 1 on 1 battle between Schleck and Cadel, with a possible challenge from Frank. Everyone else had been eliminated one way or another.

 

[Martin318is]

yep - that bit is debatable but at least we agree on the main point - attacking Andy (when he could clearly see what condition he was in) was neither necessary nor in his best interest

 

[dgodave]

Plateau de Beille

2002 - Lance Armstrong 45.43

2004 Lance Armstrong 45.30

2007 Alberto Contador 44.08

Yeah. At their limit they are pretty close as climbers.
.
So thats not where this TdF ITT style will be won. I think it goes to the one who can motor all day long fastest on the flat/mildly-hilly stages. Physical and painfully mental. I give Lancy pants a slight edge there. Perhaps his triathlon experience would help.
.

 

[Walkman]

Just in case you forgot, that's how he lost the Tour multiple times already

Wait what?!

No, he did lose the Tour because he had to kill himself in the mountains and then come ITT he did not had enough in the tank. This year he did different. He let riders that wasn't a threat go and focused on the ones who actually did matter for the GC and ended up winning.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Just because you won doesn't mean it was a great tactical move.

Great tactical move? Probably not, but still, he did end up smashing Andy in the ITT...

I don't remember everything any more about that stage, but the Schlecks were actively chasing down Contador. If Cadel Evans had the legs he would have tried to put some more distance between him and the Schlecks. But let's be honest, we all know Evans can't do 7km solos on a MTF and stay away.

Stop BS:ing, will you? What we do know is that Evans is about explosive as a freight train, so he will never get the jump on the likes of Andy and AC but I think he showed on Galibier that he can hold his own pace pretty good, don't you think?

The thing is, most of the people seems to think Cadel did the right choice in not chasing AC and most people seems to think that he didn't even try. That's the way I see it from reading this forum during and directly after le Tour.

 

[Walkman]

Plateau de Beille

2002 - Lance Armstrong 45.43

2004 Lance Armstrong 45.30

2007 Alberto Contador 44.08

Should we look at times for Alpe aswell? I don't like either of them but just posting times for Plateau de Beille, in order to favour AC, is quite misleading, wich of course you know, hence it looks kind of lame.

I'll respond your other post as soon I get some free time. Though I can agree that using the word "delusional" was kind of harsh even if I at the time felt it was the best word for describing your post.

 

[BigChain]

To consider who would win this hypothetical TDF TT race you need to go back to the early years of the tour and determine the sort of riders who won, as many stages were raced solo. Such a TT TDF would suit a hard man with a bit of weight who can handle 3,000km on the flat and in the wind. It would not suit a 62kg rider. Any time gains made on the mountain stages by a leight weight rider like Contador would be well and truly lost on the flat, regardless of how well he can race one individual TT. For my money I would back someone like Jens, Stuey O'Grady, Cancellara maybe. Someone of that ilk.

 

[BigChain]

Also in a TT TDF raced over 3-4,000kms, noone is going to be capable of racing up any mountain. All riding will be done at tempo and therefore less time will be lost in the mountains than on the flat.

 

[El Pistolero]

Wait what?!

No, he did lose the Tour because he had to kill himself in the mountains and then come ITT he did not had enough in the tank. This year he did different. He let riders that wasn't a threat go and focused on the ones who actually did matter for the GC and ended up winning.



Great tactical move? Probably not, but still, he did end up smashing Andy in the ITT...



Stop BS:ing, will you? What we do know is that Evans is about explosive as a freight train, so he will never get the jump on the likes of Andy and AC but I think he showed on Galibier that he can hold his own pace pretty good, don't you think?

The thing is, most of the people seems to think Cadel did the right choice in not chasing AC and most people seems to think that he didn't even try. That's the way I see it from reading this forum during and directly after le Tour.

He made the right choice in not following AC because he would bonk like he always does when he tries to follow Contador.

Like duh.

 

[danjo007]

Plateau de Beille

2002 - Lance Armstrong 45.43

2004 Lance Armstrong 45.30

2007 Alberto Contador 44.08

and that means????

contador - fragile mind
lance - tough b@stard
theres the difference.

if you're going to just look at 1 climb (in a tour over 3weeks) LOLOLOLOL - then pantani would have wiped the floor with contador too.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

please enlighten us at the fragile mind / tough b@stard logic:

 

[luckyboy]

Lance beat up cancer in a back alley and Contador had a brain haemorrhage?

 

[The Hitch]

Should we look at times for Alpe aswell? I don't like either of them but just posting times for Plateau de Beille, in order to favour AC, is quite misleading, wich of course you know, hence it looks kind of lame.

I'll respond your other post as soon I get some free time. Though I can agree that using the word "delusional" was kind of harsh even if I at the time felt it was the best word for describing your post.

Plateau was the only one they both did on peak. In fact Contador was a weaker rider in 2007, as he lost big in the tt, something he would go on to master as he moved away from the young riders category.

We cant compare Alpe because Contadors only Alpe TDF time was done after the Giro, after spending the entire stage doing a 60k mountain itt.


His other Alpe time was in the Dauphine.

Hardly comparable to a itt up Alpe the day after a rest day at the Grandaddy of them all.

You may also take note that the post specified Contador prime vs Lance prime and Contador has never done Alpe on prime.

You know this.

Im not saying Plateau de Beille times are conclusive evidence but they are something that should be looked at.

 

[The Hitch]

if you're going to just look at 1 climb (in a tour over 3weeks) LOLOLOLOL - then pantani would have wiped the floor with contador too.

Yeah Pantani probably was a better climber than Contador.

Do you assume that everyone is as narrow minded as you.

Because i like Contador I will therefore defend him against logic like you do with Cuddles?

And I look at 1 climb because that is the only climb that both Contador and Lance have gone all out on during peak years.

Which is what you asked for in the first place, peak vs peak.

How that simple point alludes you I dont know.

 

[danjo007]

im not a fan of cuddles - as you seem to assume.

timmy, ive not seen lance cry when accused of doping.
contador sooked like a baby. is that soft enough?

 

[The Hitch]

im not a fan of cuddles - as you seem to assume.

timmy, ive not seen lance cry when accused of doping.
contador sooked like a baby. is that soft enough?

The fact that you couldnt take a simple joke about Evans to start with, and then said Evans is would win this event easily because he won the TDF this year. (The Evans = best because he won TDF this year believability rating is very strongly correlated to being a Evans fan).

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

im not a fan of cuddles - as you seem to assume.

timmy, ive not seen lance cry when accused of doping.
contador sooked like a baby. is that soft enough?

lol.
Judge a man when he is accused of something.
That is excellent criteria.

And if LA's reactions regarding doping are really considered then we may as well just label him a manipulative, dodgey, aggresive piece of s**t

 

[BroDeal]

To consider who would win this hypothetical TDF TT race you need to go back to the early years of the tour and determine the sort of riders who won, as many stages were raced solo. Such a TT TDF would suit a hard man with a bit of weight who can handle 3,000km on the flat and in the wind. It would not suit a 62kg rider. Any time gains made on the mountain stages by a leight weight rider like Contador would be well and truly lost on the flat, regardless of how well he can race one individual TT. For my money I would back someone like Jens, Stuey O'Grady, Cancellara maybe. Someone of that ilk.

This.

There is no reason to assume that the winners of the Tour in the current format would still be the winners of a different format. The modern winners are used to hiding in the pack, expending as little energy as possible, and sticking their noses into the wind for only a few critical and short stretches of the race. Doing twenty consecutive 200 km time trials in a row would favor a different type of rider, one that is larger and sturdier with the ability to race hard for five hours, day after day. Cancellara is that type of man.

 

[dgodave]

This.

There is no reason to assume that the winners of the Tour in the current format would still be the winners of a different format. The modern winners are used to hiding in the pack, expending as little energy as possible, and sticking their noses into the wind for only a few critical and short stretches of the race. Doing twenty consecutive 200 km time trials in a row would favor a different type of rider, one that is larger and sturdier with the ability to race hard for five hours, day after day. Cancellara is that type of man.

Thats a perfectly fair assessment.
.
My initial call was Indurain.
.

 

[Martin318is]

This.

There is no reason to assume that the winners of the Tour in the current format would still be the winners of a different format. The modern winners are used to hiding in the pack, expending as little energy as possible, and sticking their noses into the wind for only a few critical and short stretches of the race. Doing twenty consecutive 200 km time trials in a row would favor a different type of rider, one that is larger and sturdier with the ability to race hard for five hours, day after day. Cancellara is that type of man.

I've been saying exactly this - in slightly different words I admit - for several days now.

And yet it keeps coming back to who is fastest up a hill.

 

[BroDeal]

I've been saying exactly this - in slightly different words I admit - for several days now.

And yet it keeps coming back to who is fastest up a hill.

And they would not be quite as fast uphill if they had to ride the previous 140 kilometers solo at 40 km/hr.

 

[rata de sentina]

I know it is a quiet time but it is incomprehensible that a thread of such mind-boggling dumbness could engender 200+ replies. I'm not impartial to the occasional bout of troll-baiting myself but even your average troll would feel pangs of vestigal conscience participating in this travesty.