Who would win if TDF was raced as TT ???

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

All that does for me, is make me sad that Big Mig, like so many puts the tour on a pedestal and make conclusions from that one race.

Again, anyone arguing AC wasn't the best GT guy this year is delusional.

 

[hrotha]

All that does for me, is make me sad that Big Mig, like so many puts the tour on a pedestal and make conclusions from that one race.

Again, anyone arguing AC wasn't the best GT guy this year is delusional.

That's quite the way of debating you have.
I declare Sastre to have been the best GT guy last year. If you disagree, you're making conclusions from just one race. Or two.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

That's quite the way of debating you have.
I declare Sastre to have been the best GT guy last year. If you disagree, you're making conclusions from just one race. Or two.

well my point was made in my previous point, if you or any other people can't be bothered reading that I'm not gonna repeat myself

Like I said best GT rider this year goes to AC imo, because of his 1st(giro) and 5th(tour).

Obviously I'm gonna make conclusions from the two or three GTs I watched, because up to now I was only aware of 3 GTs, please enlighten me of the ones I missed

edit: btw I understand big mig says cadel evans is the best rider of the season, and I would put him and ac in a similar boat. Personally I'd go with ac, but I do not find it inconvcievable that evans was the best. Gilbert, and now cav I guess are also contendors.

But I never argued in my previous post that evans wasn't the best rider of the season. In fact I never regarded the topic, I regarded the GT issue, thus my reply directed at such direction. Bit of reading should have made this clear.

 

[cineteq]

Again, anyone arguing AC wasn't the best GT guy this year is delusional.

It's as simple as this, to be the best GT rider you must win against the best GC riders of the planet, in the best GT there is (TdF).

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

It's as simple as this, to be the best GT rider you must win against the best GC riders of the planet, in the best GT there is (TdF).

I have no doubt it is that simple for the short minded.
I mean looking at the end result without considering the facts of the GT and other GTs (Giro) is genius logic.

I mean look at the guys who rode the giro and vuelta, it appeard most of the riders were still struggling at the vuelta from thier giro effort. Gadret and others who rode giro couldn't cope at the tour.

But that is no excuse, AC is no match for tommy v.
The guy is a 'hack' GT rider.

Heck Gesink is the 33 best GT rider in reality. Geraint Thomas is a superior GT rider even.

--

anyway by your briliant logic conta is far superior in comparison anyway.

2010 giro-tour attempt:
evans: 5th (giro) + 26th (tour).
2011 giro-tour attempt:
AC: 1st (giro) + 5th (tour).

 

[The Hitch]

Having said that, you definitely deserve a global facepalm for your comments.
Big Mig asked me to send you this:
Miguel Indurain names Cadel Evans as his rider of the season

Hope you like it, and don't dare to disagree

Carlos Sastre once said that Cali was another gt. Contador talks crap all the time, as does Samu and Valverde.

Point is these top class Spanish riders can say stupid things sometimes. Big Mig joins the club big time with this one.

Im disappointed to hear this from the great man, but all you can really do is laugh at it.

Hes the only one outside a certain continent / country who actually thinks Cuddles season comes anywhere near Gilbert's.

We dont really need to go into Gilbert vs Cadel much here. One of them had a season that is clearly miles ahead of the others.

I would have Contador in 2nd. The points dont give rankings for how they ride, how many crashes they had, or how epic their attacks are, but fans can give riders credit for that, and some of what The Great One did this year we might never see again.
Podiuming 9 stages in a gt, giving away stage wins and kom competitions at will, dropping his main rival on every single mountain stage in the race.

Singlehandidly making 3 stages interesting in the TDF, deciding the race with his attacks and launching from 100k out once it was all lost.

It like mixing Hoogerlands riding with Rujanos climbing.

A rider wins the Tour every year. But that kind of racing from someone capable of causing damage, is like Hailey's comet. Yes Cadel won Tirreno and Romandie too which i respect greatly, but i put a lot of stock in riders performance, not just in their results, so i still think Contador is comfortably in 2nd.

Normally the season Cuddles had should be enough for rider of the year, but this year was different.

 

[The Hitch]

It's as simple as this, to be the best GT rider you must win against the best GC riders of the planet, in the best GT there is (TdF).

Which Contador has done 3 times.

Also under your specifications Evans is NOT the best gt rider in the planet is he.

You have to win against the best but all Evans did was beat Schleck. VDB, Wiggins and Gesink crashed. Menchov not allowed in. Nibali and Scarponi (both of whom have beaten Cadel last time they met) never entered. Samu sabotaged by organizers. Contador tired after Giro, crashed, and sabotaged by organisers.

There was also a way off form Basso after he crashed.

So if Cadel has to beat the best Gt riders to be the best, then hes not the best.

On your own terms.

 

[The Hitch]

The day cuddles does anything like that I like tatoo a cuddles face on my forehead, which will make me want to do a permanent facepalm in reality.

lol, nice one timmy, nice one.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Hitch, I never said that Cadel would win but I don't think Contador would be miles better than Cadel like you have been trying to imply. I think it would be a good contest. I have decided to join the debate now because of your little tantrum regarding my post where you felt the need to go out and insult me after I called you delusional based on this one point. Your reaction was quite immature. Your posts in this thread regarding how awesome AC is has been over the top clearly because you saw "The Great One" in real life.

I would actually say Cadel was 2nd best rider this year. It wasn't just Evans' wins but also the way he rode in other races such as the Dauphine. btw timmy, I don't think you can really compare Evans' attempt at the gro tour double with Alberto's attempt. Evans had been racing a big schedule from early January through till late May. He came down with a bad fever after the 1st week and his form was dropping. At the tour he broke his arm. Much different to Alberto's attempt.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Cinteq's point was the end result only matters really, without considering the race itself. So using his logic I made the comparison.

But surely you can't even argue that evans is no match for AC.

 

[simo1733]

Hitch, I never said that Cadel would win but I don't think Contador would be miles better than Cadel like you have been trying to imply. I think it would be a good contest. I have decided to join the debate now because of your little tantrum regarding my post where you felt the need to go out and insult me after I called you delusional based on this one point. Your reaction was quite immature. Your posts in this thread regarding how awesome AC is has been over the top clearly because you saw "The Great One" in real life.

I would actually say Cadel was 2nd best rider this year. It wasn't just Evans' wins but also the way he rode in other races such as the Dauphine. btw timmy, I don't think you can really compare Evans' attempt at the gro tour double with Alberto's attempt. Evans had been racing a big schedule from early January through till late May. He came down with a bad fever after the 1st week and his form was dropping. At the tour he broke his arm. Much different to Alberto's attempt.

.

Let's hope that we do get to see a proper Cadel/Alberto/Andy showdown next year, and that the winner will get the acclaim they deserve.

 

[auscyclefan94]

.

Let's hope that we do get to see a proper Cadel/Alberto/Andy showdown next year, and that the winner will get the acclaim they deserve.

Agreed. I don't think it will be such an easy victory for Alberto that some people are trying to claim. Just my opinion.

 

[The Hitch]

.
Hitch, I never said that Cadel would win but I don't think Contador would be miles better than Cadel like you have been trying to imply. I think it would be a good contest. I have decided to join the debate now because of your little tantrum regarding my post where you felt the need to go out and insult me after I called you delusional based on this one point. Your reaction was quite immature

You said i was delusional but refused to tell me why. If you are going to call me delusional have the balls to explain what you mean.

It doesnt matter if you said i was delusional about 1 point, or a full on nutcase, if you are going to tell me my points are wrong, especially if you use meanspirited phrases like "you are delusional" rather than the calmer " I disagree with you" option, then I expect you to explain to me what specifically what you disagree with and why you disagree with it.

Not giving me any information as to why i am "delusional" and offering "nobody cares" as an excuse is cheap, and I was perfectly within my right to offer counter-insults.

Your posts in this thread regarding how awesome AC is has been over the top clearly because you saw "The Great One" in real life.

Its surprising that you pay enough attention to my comments to know that I saw Contador, but not enough attention to know that i was just as praiseful of Contador before.

I started using the term "The Great One" sometime back in February or March, long before the Giro or Tour (and am glad to see a few others have began to use it too)

It was fun to see some riders up close but not a life changing experience. I certainatly wouldnt start supporting a rider just because i saw them. I treat most riders like that anyway,

I would actually say Cadel was 2nd best rider this year. It wasn't just Evans' wins but also the way he rode in other races such as the Dauphine. btw timmy, I don't think you can really compare Evans' attempt at the gro tour double with Alberto's attempt. Evans had been racing a big schedule from early January through till late May. He came down with a bad fever after the 1st week and his form was dropping.

The one thing Evans has in his favour is pure palmares. If someone did not watch any of the races or believes only the end result matters then thats in Evans favour. But if like you suggest we look at how riders rpde its a big + in camp Bertie.

It doesnt matter what Evans did at the Dauphine, it just cant compete with attacking on a flat stage taking everyone by surprise to come 2nd on stage 8, blowing everyone away from 7k out on Etna, 9k out on Grossglockner, 6k out on Gardeccia, 10k out on Gap 4k out on Pinnerolo and 96km out (then 14km out after being finaly caught) on Telegraph-Alpe d huez,

All of which was in gts.

At the tour he broke his arm. Much different to Alberto's attempt

Contador broke his knee which unlike your arm you actually need to ride.

This last point is a joke, kind of like my first post in this thread. Lets see if Cadel fans have learnt to take a joke.

 

[The Hitch]

Agreed. I don't think it will be such an easy victory for Alberto that some people are trying to claim. Just my opinion.

Yeah. Andy Schleck will offer a stern challenge.

 

[Martin318is]

TSF got this right and only a few people noticed (before going back to the slinging of insults), as did the couple of people who referenced the Navy SEALS.

All the riders being currently discussed spend most of the GTs in the front part of the bunch being looked after by multiple assistants until its time to attack up the hill. A hypothetical event like this one is not going to be won by someone who doses their efforts like that. It will be won by someone who has the mental toughness to bite their handlebars and grind out unrelenting big numbers for hours after hour.

There is no reason for a non-competetive rider to keep pedalling because they cannot assist their team mates etc. Its a solo event. So even if you start with 200, it will ultimately come down to less than 5.

There are people who are fast uphill and their are people who are fast downhill. There are also people who are fast on the flat for an hour. But an event like this is going to be won by someone who can do all that AND beat their mind. As such, it would go to someone of the Jens, or an admittedly younger O'Grady, type. Someone who can go to the front and crucify themselves every single day for 3 weeks is going to be more successful than someone who cruises for 4 hours and goes hard for 1.

I don't think any of the GT favourites really have this. Evans showed he has a lot of determination, but that was only for 2 or 3 days, not 3 weeks. Contador is clearly tough, but is he that tough? Andy definitely does not have it. Regardless, I think someone up around 10kg heavier with a lot of power would win this.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Some classic conversation here!

An opinion from an Australian and TDF fan boy: Contador was better in the GT's than Evans this year. His performance in the Giro was more impressive than Cadel's in the Tour, plus he had that 5th place finish, less than 4 minutes from victory, despite the obstacles that he encountered. Evans should still get lots of props though from his consistency in July, and everytime he needed to step up, he did. Beating the Schleck's ain't that easy, especially when you are given criminally few TT km's.

As for this hypothetical race it really is no contest. Kloden easily

 

[BroDeal]

It's time for you to put aside your fanboyism and recognize Evans as the best overall rider of 2011 and most likely 2012.

People once spoke of the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field. It has now been eclipsed by the Cadel Evans Fanboy Reality Distortion Field.

 

[auscyclefan94]

You said i was delusional but refused to tell me why. If you are going to call me delusional have the balls to explain what you mean.

It doesnt matter if you said i was delusional about 1 point, or a full on nutcase, if you are going to tell me my points are wrong, especially if you use meanspirited phrases like "you are delusional" rather than the calmer " I disagree with you" option, then I expect you to explain to me what specifically what you disagree with and why you disagree with it.

Not giving me any information as to why i am "delusional" and offering "nobody cares" as an excuse is cheap, and I was perfectly within my right to offer counter-insults.




Its surprising that you pay enough attention to my comments to know that I saw Contador, but not enough attention to know that i was just as praiseful of Contador before.

I started using the term "The Great One" sometime back in February or March, long before the Giro or Tour (and am glad to see a few others have began to use it too)

It was fun to see some riders up close but not a life changing experience. I certainatly wouldnt start supporting a rider just because i saw them. I treat most riders like that anyway,



The one thing Evans has in his favour is pure palmares. If someone did not watch any of the races or believes only the end result matters then thats in Evans favour. But if like you suggest we look at how riders rpde its a big + in camp Bertie.

It doesnt matter what Evans did at the Dauphine, it just cant compete with attacking on a flat stage taking everyone by surprise to come 2nd on stage 8, blowing everyone away from 7k out on Etna, 9k out on Grossglockner, 6k out on Gardeccia, 10k out on Gap 4k out on Pinnerolo and 96km out (then 14km out after being finaly caught) on Telegraph-Alpe d huez,

All of which was in gts.

Contador broke his knee which unlike your arm you actually need to ride.

This last point is a joke, kind of like my first post in this thread. Lets see if Cadel fans have learnt to take a joke.

I am surprised that you of all people would find me calling you delusional 'mean spirited'. You need to have some cement if you take offence to that especially what I have to put with sometimes which I often don't say anything. The reason nobody really cares because it will never happen. Talking about who will win the tdf is a matter people care about because it is about a contest that will actually happen not like this one.

Regarding Contador, I personally think you have increased your support for him significantly. Just my opinion.

 

[Martin318is]

I care ACF. And to show how much I care, I will write the following:

Everyone please stay on the topic - or leave the thread. If you choose option 3 and stay here and insult people or engage in poor behviour then I will step in.

 

[BroDeal]

The answer is Cancellara.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

hopefully contador rapes the field next year, so the cuddlecrew can come back to reality.

 

[dgodave]

Indurain.
.

 

[theyoungest]

Agreed. I don't think it will be such an easy victory for Alberto that some people are trying to claim. Just my opinion.

Look, I like Cadel, and he now has a fine Tour victory as the highpoint of his career. But he's just no match for an on-form Contador as a climber, and as a time trialist Contador is much more consistent. Unless you think that this year suddenly a 34-year-old guy has made incredible progress, and a 28-year-old has regressed massively. Even this year, despite numerous crashes and serious knee pain, Contador showed Evans his heels at will (apart from one really bad day on the Galibier).

 

[SHAD0W93]

Indurain.
.

If you are pulling Indurain than I am going with Ullrich.

 

[User Guide]

it will

It will be run as a time trial next year effectively.Sky will try same trick as in Vuelta as will one or two other teams.Contador will win with Evans and Wiggins fighting for podium(no Angry Lu at TDF). And yes that means no podium for the "Frandies"