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Why Alberto Contador is Cycling's One True Champion

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May 14, 2010
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Re: Re:

Irondan said:
Maxiton said:
Yeah, Lance is really letting him have it. The timing is perfect in this shot. With his tongue where it is, Lance looks like a serpent.
No doubt.

I sure miss that intensity. ;)

There's a lot to be said for intensity.

As long as you're not sitting directly under it. :D
 
Re: Re:

Maxiton said:
Irondan said:
Maxiton said:
Yeah, Lance is really letting him have it. The timing is perfect in this shot. With his tongue where it is, Lance looks like a serpent.
No doubt.

I sure miss that intensity. ;)

There's a lot to be said for intensity.

As long as you're not sitting directly under it. :D
Back in the day, most riders made sure they weren't directly under it but not Alberto. :D
 
May 14, 2010
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Re: Re:

Irondan said:
Maxiton said:
There's a lot to be said for intensity.

As long as you're not sitting directly under it. :D

Back in the day, most riders made sure they weren't directly under it but not Alberto. :D

True. Which I guess is the whole point of this thread, now that you mention it. ;)
 
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pastronef said:
Maxiton said:
Hey, remember this? Good times. :D

lance-armstrong-alberto-contador-20.jpg


never saw that. Lance seems pissed :D
And Alberto is just like, "sure pal, whatever" which probably pissed Lance off even more :D
 
Re: Re:

Zypherov said:
Irondan said:
Zypherov said:
I fail to see how a known doper could be classified as Cyclings One 'True' Champion.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1861912#p1861912

Thanks, but I have already read that post.
Did you read the entire thread?

I posted that for a starting point, if you get to the end of the thread and reach the same conclusion that's fine.

You didn't give any more information than "I fail to see how a known doper could be classified as Cyclings One 'True' Champion" so it's hard to know why you disagree with the OP.
 
Mar 14, 2016
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Re: Re:

Zypherov said:
Irondan said:
Zypherov said:
I fail to see how a known doper could be classified as Cyclings One 'True' Champion.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1861912#p1861912

Thanks, but I have already read that post.
So have I, and it strikes me as: "Sure, Contador tested positive for doping, but [INSERT FLIMSY EXCUSE HERE]".

It's understandable, we all look at our favourite riders through rose-tinted glasses, but that doesn't make it right.
 
Re: Re:

CheckMyPecs said:
Zypherov said:
Irondan said:
Zypherov said:
I fail to see how a known doper could be classified as Cyclings One 'True' Champion.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1861912#p1861912

Thanks, but I have already read that post.
So have I, and it strikes me as: "Sure, Contador tested positive for doping, but [INSERT FLIMSY EXCUSE HERE]".

It's understandable, we all look at our favourite riders through rose-tinted glasses, but that doesn't make it right.
I also get it, in a way. As a narrative, it's appealing, as in that it might work as the premise of behind a very underground Manga where Contador can be seen as a sort of cycling Messiah sent here to spare us from drug testing and via that and his sheer he will deliver us from hypocrisy and whatnot. A sort of Moonlight Mask on corticoids. It's just completely devoid of any plausible tether to reality, IMHO.

In any clase I'm glad to see it's no longer a sticky.
 
May 30, 2015
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The thing is the OP isn't even related to doping per se. More as Alberto Contador standing up to the UCI and Armstrong and a crony cycling hegemony.

So I won't argue the doping points as they're not really the major thrust of this argument. The primary point of the OP is I think in these 2 paragraphs...

Now this Spanish boy who had always kept his head down and followed orders faced a true dilemma. What is a champion to do when cycling's capo dei capi, the UCI's own favored son, Verbruggen and Pat's best partner, and BFF of his own team manager, comes back determined to usurp the young champion's role, which the capo dei capi feels is rightfully his and his alone? If the Spanish boy knuckles under he concedes to himself and everyone watching that the champions' role was never truly his and never can be. But if he defies the bosses he has a very clear inkling, this son of cycling, of what's in store.

Well, we know how he responded and how the story played out. We know he won that Tour and how, subsequently, the next year, his blood sample was sent off for extra-special, extraordinary scrutiny - which turned up one one-millionth of a gram of clenbuterol, a controlled substance. And so he was duly sanctioned.


I think the flaw in this argument is that it completely ignores an already established history that Contador had with UCI/TDF/Verbruggen and Pat.

In 2006 Contador was barred from competing in the Tour de France.
In 2008, despite being the defending champion Contador's team Astana was again barred from competing in the Tour de France. Even though it was a decision to ban the entire team from competition and the ban itself was unrelated to anything Contador did in the year before (as he wasn't on the team then) the ban itself wasn't levied until early 2008, when Contador was on the team. So at the time the ban happened the UCI knew full well they would be forcing the defending champion of the Tour out of the race.

So our Son of Cycling and Young Champion already had a very negative relationship with the Tour de France and it's organizers. This Spanish boy as the OP frames him wasn't some fresh faced innocent with no prior relationship with the UCI coming in to 2009. It could be argued he was already persona non grata with the heads of the Tour de France.

Going back to the year 2008 (a year before Contador became cycling's one true champion), after being banned from the Tour Contador went forth and won both the Giro and the Vuelta. Which was impressive and the mark of a truly gifted cyclist. It launched him into the stratosphere and put him up there with some truly great names as he put himself on 2 lists; those who've won the Giro/Vuelta double, and those who've won all 3 Grand Tours. So in 2008 Contador had already become one of the all time greats.

This is why the OP is wrong. Because it frames Contador as having 2 roads before him in 2009.

1. "knuckle under" and intentionally lose to Armstrong to remain in the UCI's good graces.
2. Throw caution to the wind, and possibly ruin his career by standing up to the big bad UCI.

Both of those are incorrect.

Number 1 is incorrect because as I mentioned before he was already kind of hated by the powers that be. They'd banned him from competing in the Tour 2 of the last 3 years and that was sandwiched around him actually winning the Tour de France. They already didn't like him, so he basically had no reason to knuckle under, as far as he and Tour were concerned their relationship was already at bottom.

Number 2 is incorrect because the year before, when the Tour had already banned him from competing, he went on to pull off the double, basically putting his thumb in the eye of the TDF, saying "I don't need your tour to be great. I'm already great." He'd already shown in the prior year that he could be famous and well loved and be a champion on his own terms, without the Tour de France. So why in 2009 after he'd already proven that would he be overly concerned with them ruining his career? He was above their ability to ruin, as I think he's proven.

The final point I would make is I think we're setting the bar really low for our "One True Champion". The OP seems to suggest that Contador is a legend because he did not intentionally lose the Tour de France. I think placed in the same position most riders would behave as he did. There are a number of reasons why Contador should be considered a great cyclist and champion. Him not intentionally losing a bike race out of fear of reprisal is not one of them. Particularly when you look at everything he's done since 2009. I can't point to a single example of him casting down the powers that be in cycling or doing anything other than competing in bike races and remaining relatively quiet and mostly keeping to himself.



Final note: He was unfairly scrutinized and singled out in 2010, whether this was a direct result of 2009 or part of a continuing trend of the Tour de France organizers trying to ban Contador from competing every other year I can't say, but I don't think it negates anything else I've said in this post.
 
Queens Boulevard said:
In 2008, despite being the defending champion Contador's team Astana was again barred from competing in the Tour de France. Even though it was a decision to ban the entire team from competition and the ban itself was unrelated to anything Contador did in the year before (as he wasn't on the team then) the ban itself wasn't levied until early 2008, when Contador was on the team. So at the time the ban happened the UCI knew full well they would be forcing the defending champion of the Tour out of the race.

2008 was nothing to do with the UCI. The UCI wanted Astana in the Tour that year, but ASO didn't, after Vino/Kash the year before. ASO ran the Tour completely independent of the UCI that year. Astana was considered dirty both for the positives the year before, and for its roots in ONCE.

Look, I admire Contador for standing up to Lance in 2009. At the end of the day he's a doper like the rest of them though. I don't care about the clenbuterol. I care that, between the Puerto links, the blood parameters we know from the clen case, the plasticiser spike, and the fishy hematocrit exemption, it's blatantly obvious that he's on EPO/blood bags.
 
Re:

ebandit said:
....promoting an idea that bertie is better than others........well there ya go......

one for the fans

an idea canvassed by administrators here.....oops!

Mark L
I see the idea police are out in force today. :rolleyes:

I made no commentary one way or the other. :mad:

What "idea" is it that I'm canvassing??? :rolleyes: (not a question)

Even if I did, my position in the forum doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to be a cycling fan. You realize this is an unpaid (did I mention thankless?), volunteer position, do you not?

I never once have said anywhere in this thread that I agree with the OP's sentiment, but I'm an AC fan and think he's a huge champion. Maybe not the "one true champion" but a champion still the same. Certainly the champion of his generation, true or not he's the greatest cyclist his generation produced. Can I say that, being an administrator or is this an idea I'm not allowed to have....
 
May 6, 2016
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True Champions do not take performance enhancing drugs. They win entirely on their own merit unassisted by the poisons that they inject in their veins, ingest orally or by transdermal methods, etc, etc. True Champions of this sport have an ethical and moral obligation to do what is right, by speaking out against the pharmaceutical champions that are destroying this sport and the methods with which they use to win at all costs. Riders such a Graeme Obree, Christophe Bassons and Gilles Delion are examples of true champions, not guys like Contador, Basso, Armstrong, Di Luca, Rasmussen who are all the same ilk, enforcers of the omerta and cheaters alike. We don't exactly know to what extent Alberto Contador doped throughout his career, because like many dopers they/he passed drug tests they/he should not have had. I am not condemning Contador. He is a great talent, but how much of that talent was aided by PEDS. We will probably never know how much he doped throughout his career. He did show quite a bit of metal coming back from his ban and winning again. But is he still on the gear ? Who knows for certain.
 

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