Why Alberto Contador is Cycling's One True Champion

[MarkvW]

Re: Re:

I just want to say that Alpuerto Clenbutador is the true soul of cycling. The rightful and true heir to Lance Armstrong!

Thanks for that substantive contribution to the thread, Mark.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

I don't remember the chronology and I'm convinced Sarkozy is corrupt in many ways but why on Earth would he favor Armstrong (doped) against french riders who were supposed to be clean(ish) at the time ? Imagine the impact of a french win in the TDF. No french president would disregard that.

Sarkozy is a d@ck, but he would never favor a foreign doper over French riders. Faulty intelligence (if any)? At least that one didn't turn the middle-east upside down...Sarkozy was probably like all these guys/gals on our forums who cheer for Bertie, Piti, Astana, Sky, and won't be skeptics until their nose is rubbed in the crap.

Obviously, Sarkozy failed to recognize that when your economy tanks, panem and circences, give people something to cheer for. Unlike Spain . Sarkozy didn't recognize that, the French soccer team embarrassed the country, puke...not a conspiracy. Stupidity.

And maybe that's why the police presence and busts that I foresaw last year at the TdF didn't materialize: the resources are so stretched that anti-terrorism took them all, and/or maybe because the French are doing it too. In '98 only the French/Virenque took it: why go witch hunting and only catch your own? Today: AG2R? Not clean. FDJ? Still clean, IMO, but for how long? There's pressure to give the pubic opium to soothe the pain and sponsors to please.

 

[railxmig]

FDJ? Still clean, IMO, but for how long?

Is this real?! Is this troll?! Is this memes?! I feel like I've just got punched in the face with an anvil.

BTW. Why this thread is (right now) a thing? If you want to call Contador as an actual champion figure, excluding doping factor, i would prefer to wait like next 10 years or so. There might be some secrets that we don't know about right now and things likes to dig out with time.

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

Sarkozy is a d@ck, but he would never favor a foreign doper over French riders. Faulty intelligence (if any)? At least that one didn't turn the middle-east upside down...Sarkozy was probably like all these guys/gals on our forums who cheer for Bertie, Piti, Astana, Sky, and won't be skeptics until their nose is rubbed in the crap.

Much time and embarrassment can be spared by actually reading the thread before replying. Same goes for MarkvW, too.

Armstrong had his meeting with Sarkozy in 2008 or early 2009. The meeting wasn't about favoring Armstrong. Armstrong didn't need Sarkozy's help for that. The meeting was probably to impress upon Sarkozy (a fan of the sport) that ASO's recent anti-doping efforts were misguided, and would end up hurting the sport and the race. Armstrong was getting ready to approach ASO with the same message, and doubtlessly hope to enlist the support of Sarkozy.

The whole point of the meetings with Sarkozy and ASO was to put the kibosh on ASO's new, newly genuine anti-doping efforts. In the months after these meetings, ASO fired its new anti-doping people and soon handed drug testing back to UCI.

Why this thread is (right now) a thing? If you want to call Contador as an actual champion figure, excluding doping factor, i would prefer to wait like next 10 years or so. There might be some secrets that we don't know about right now and things likes to dig out with time.

See above, the part about reading.

 

[Tonton]

Maxiton, if you don't want your posts to be misinterpreted, then be clear, quit throwing spaghetti on the wall, see what sticks, i.e. the Sarkozy-Lance meetings. I'll leave it at that. I'm not on CN to argue. I'm about to go ride my bike anyways, while some here get ready for a day on the laptop.

Contador a true champion is the thread. He has the wins, for sure. A true champion? Not in my eyes. And if it wasn't for the deep dislike/suspicion about Sky/Froome and the desire in many fans to see them defeated, Bertie would be a lot less popular outside of Spain than he is. I for one, will be cheering for him to beat Dawg in July, and then for him to gtf out of cycling.

 

[Maxiton]

Maxiton, if you don't want your posts to be misinterpreted, then be clear, quit throwing spaghetti on the wall, see what sticks, i.e. the Sarkozy-Lance meetings. I'll leave it at that. I'm not on CN to argue. I'm about to go ride my bike anyways, while some here get ready for a day on the laptop.

My responses were clear as day, you plainly just hadn't read them.

Throwing spaghetti at the wall? If you followed the events at the time, Armstrong made no secret of his disapproval of ASOs new anti-doping measures. He thought it hurt the sport and slowed down the racing. He said so. His meetings were no secret, either. Nor was it a secret that after much fanfare in hiring anti-doping people, as well as taking drug testing away from UCI and giving it to WADA, ASO suddenly reversed course after meeting with Armstrong, firing the people it had recently hired and putting UCI back in charge of drug testing. This was all much discussed here at the time, as was Armstrong's obvious complicity in it.

Contador a true champion is the thread. He has the wins, for sure. A true champion? Not in my eyes. And if it wasn't for the deep dislike/suspicion about Sky/Froome and the desire in many fans to see them defeated, Bertie would be a lot less popular outside of Spain than he is. I for one, will be cheering for him to beat Dawg in July, and then for him to gtf out of cycling.

You could read the thread and try to understand why I am calling him that. Or not. In any case enjoy the bike ride.

 

[Tonton]

Great ride it was, thank you. Not quite six hours busting my a$$, and I'm on...nothing.

I have followed the thread, read many posts, and find a lot of truth in there: for example the statement that doping isn't the #1 problem, but corruption is. But I also see a lot thrown in there that I feel at best distracts from the real issues, or at worst are irrelevant. The Sarko thing being one of them.



If he wanted to talk about doping, understand doping and cycling, or do anything about doping, this pic shows that he knew the right people: no need for Lance. Facts: Sarko never spoke up against doping, never did anything as the Interior Minister (in charge of the Police) to bust dopers and organizations that we all knew doped. In his years as cop #1, that was USPS/Discovery and Lance, which everyone in France knew were dirty. As a president, his administration de-funded the lab in Chatenay-Malabry for example. Not that Sarko was an accomplice of the dirty circus that is cycling, but rather because he didn't give a $hit.

Changes that took (and actually didn't take) place and that you mentioned have more to do with UCI and ASO protecting the institution and keeping a status quo that was in everybody's best interest. UCI because Armstrong was holding them by the b@lls, and ASO because of the fear that another Festina would destroy the Tour, the ratings, affect the money. No change helped fit the rhetoric that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", after all cycling became clean in '06 (then in '11), basically the BS that masses are being fed.

Sarkozy is a non-issue. Too busy to kiss the one ball to ask questions...I bet he got a signed jersey out of it.

 

[Maxiton]

Great ride it was, thank you. Not quite six hours busting my a$$, and I'm on...nothing.

I have followed the thread, read many posts, and find a lot of truth in there: for example the statement that doping isn't the #1 problem, but corruption is. But I also see a lot thrown in there that I feel at best distracts from the real issues, or at worst are irrelevant. The Sarko thing being one of them.



If he wanted to talk about doping, understand doping and cycling, or do anything about doping, this pic shows that he knew the right people: no need for Lance. Facts: Sarko never spoke up against doping, never did anything as the Interior Minister (in charge of the Police) to bust dopers and organizations that we all knew doped. In his years as cop #1, that was USPS/Discovery and Lance, which everyone in France knew were dirty. As a president, his administration de-funded the lab in Chatenay-Malabry for example. Not that Sarko was an accomplice of the dirty circus that is cycling, but rather because he didn't give a $hit.

Changes that took (and actually didn't take) place and that you mentioned have more to do with UCI and ASO protecting the institution and keeping a status quo that was in everybody's best interest. UCI because Armstrong was holding them by the b@lls, and ASO because of the fear that another Festina would destroy the Tour, the ratings, affect the money. No change helped fit the rhetoric that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", after all cycling became clean in '06 (then in '11), basically the BS that masses are being fed.

Sarkozy is a non-issue. Too busy to kiss the one ball to ask questions...I bet he got a signed jersey out of it.

Thanks for that. I had to make the point about Armstrong intervening with ASO, because the post I was replying to was saying cycling is deeply corrupt and doped, always has been, always will be. There's no point, he said, in even discussing the matter because ASO and UCI are cozy with each other and work together to facilitate doping.

I pointed out that this is not the case. That in fact ASO was making significant inroads against doping, in opposition to the UCI, as they saw it in their own interest. The only reason this was derailed, I said, was because of the Armstrong intervention.

Armstrong wanted to roll this back, and prepared to meet with ASO owners in this effort. In order to ensure he brought maximum pressure to bear on them, he sought, and likely received, the support of the president of France, his fan Sarkozy.

My point in all this was to show that doping can be controlled, has been controlled, and could be controlled again.

 

[Maxiton]

In connection with the above, Poupou over on the LA thread mentioned Armstrong's meeting with Sarkozy and wondered what the former had said to the latter to get rid of Pierre Bordry at AFLD (the French anti-doping organization). I'd forgotten about Bordry, but looked him up and found this:

French ex-anti doping chief says President Sarkozy forced him out of job at Lance Armstrong's request

Bordry's [fate was] sealed at a dinner attended by Armstrong at the Elysée Palace in July 2010, hosted by Sarkozy who had made little secret of his admiration for the cyclist.

“Armstrong told me about it himself,” Bordry explained to the Nouvel Observateur, saying “he boasted in front of me of having called for my head from the President. I asked for a denial from the Elysée, even a private one, but never received a reply. I was shocked.”

Instead, two months later, Bordry was told that the AFLD’s budget was being slashed by half . . . Demoralised, he resigned, and the clear implication is that the cut in funding was authorised by Sarkozy in compliance with Armstrong’s wish that Bordry be removed.

Armstrong himself greeted news of Bordry’s departure from the agency in September 2010 with a three-word message on Twitter that read “Au Revoir Pierre.”

 

[Maxiton]

Hey, remember this? Good times.

 

[LaFlorecita]

There are so many great Lance/Berto pictures, if you just search "Armstrong Contador" on google images you'll know everything you need to know about their relationship

But this! From December 2008

The article:

Lance Armstrong has offered to teach Alberto Contador how to relax, saying the Spanish rider is too nervous.

"It is obvious he still has a lot to learn," seven-times Tour de France winner Armstrong said in an interview with French sports daily L'Equipe on Tuesday.

"He is the best rider in the world but the only negative point, and I respectfully say that, is that he is too nervous... He is too good to be so nervous."

That first paragraph almost reads like the intro to a Twisted Spoke article

 

[Maxiton]

Re:

There are so many great Lance/Berto pictures, if you just search "Armstrong Contador" on google images you'll know everything you need to know about their relationship

I like this one best. Contador to LA: Get back to the pack where you belong! Or maybe he's saying, "Bottle!"

 

[moi123]

No matter what, Contador is a legend. He's put his mark on cycling. Not only is he incredibly talented, he's got style and charisma like no other cyclist we've seen in the past. I'm sure in the future we will be able to appreciate this champion more.

 

[pedromiguelmartins]

Re:

There are so many great Lance/Berto pictures, if you just search "Armstrong Contador" on google images you'll know everything you need to know about their relationship

What a great pic. Look at Alberto's eyes. That's the guy that was willing to do anything. That was the best GT rider of all time.

Nowadays he's nothing more than a rich, successful, cyclist. Not the best ever as he should be. Lance helped him being the best he could be. I miss that Alberto.

Anyway, someone needs to do the same with Sagan.

 

[LaFlorecita]

No matter what, Contador is a legend. He's put his mark on cycling. Not only is he incredibly talented, he's got style and charisma like no other cyclist we've seen in the past. I'm sure in the future we will be able to appreciate this champion more.

I wholeheartedly agree

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

There are so many great Lance/Berto pictures, if you just search "Armstrong Contador" on google images you'll know everything you need to know about their relationship

What a great pic. Look at Alberto's eyes. That's the guy that was willing to do anything. That was the best GT rider of all time.

Nowadays he's nothing more than a rich, successful, cyclist. Not the best ever as he should be. Lance helped him being the best he could be. I miss that Alberto.

Anyway, someone needs to do the same with Sagan.

In 2009 he was probably at the peak of his powers. It's irrational to expect him to still perform like that 7 years later

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

Pantani was taken out by the Mafia in a repugnant gambling satire of the sport. His big fault was his psychological frailty, though on the bike he was as tough as they come, which ultimately led to his downfall and death.

Whether this was exploited by organized crime and the sport's establishment to pave the way for Armstrong's dominion is a matter of conjecture, though it has been entertained by a number of people not completely ignorant of the facts.

And yes Pantani paid for others.

In this connection, Benotti69 posted this in the Pantanni thread:

http://road.cc/content/news/182651-prosecutors-say-camorra-did-fix1999-giro-ditalia-so-marco-pantani-would-lose

"The Camorra organised crime syndicate had a blood sample from the late Marco Pantani switched to have him ejected from the 1999 Giro d’Italia and head off potentially huge gambling losses.

That’s the finding of an investigation into the case by a public prosecutor reported in the Italian media today, although no criminal charges can be brought against any persons involved due to a statute of limitations."

The Benotti69 link seems to be the latest info, and backs up what rhubroma was saying. Everything in the small, incestuous world of pro cycling is connected. Over here on the left we have the Camorra oraganised crime syndicate and the sabotage of Pantani. And what do we find on the right? Perhaps the complicity of Verbruggen/McQuaid, and their pals at the labs? Who knows, huh?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Pantani was taken out by the Mafia in a repugnant gambling satire of the sport. His big fault was his psychological frailty, though on the bike he was as tough as they come, which ultimately led to his downfall and death.

Whether this was exploited by organized crime and the sport's establishment to pave the way for Armstrong's dominion is a matter of conjecture, though it has been entertained by a number of people not completely ignorant of the facts.

And yes Pantani paid for others.

In this connection, Benotti69 posted this in the Pantanni thread:

http://road.cc/content/news/182651-prosecutors-say-camorra-did-fix1999-giro-ditalia-so-marco-pantani-would-lose

"The Camorra organised crime syndicate had a blood sample from the late Marco Pantani switched to have him ejected from the 1999 Giro d’Italia and head off potentially huge gambling losses.

That’s the finding of an investigation into the case by a public prosecutor reported in the Italian media today, although no criminal charges can be brought against any persons involved due to a statute of limitations."

The Benotti69 link seems to be the latest info, and backs up what rhubroma was saying. Everything in the small, incestuous world of pro cycling is connected. Over here on the left we have the Camorra oraganised crime syndicate and the sabotage of Pantani. And what do we find on the right? Perhaps the complicity of Verbruggen/McQuaid, and their pals at the labs? Who knows, huh?

When the sport is run by the likes of such, why would you compete and if you compete why would you do it clean and get your @ss handed to you at every race knowing the others are cheating!

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

When the sport is run by the likes of such, why would you compete and if you compete why would you do it clean and get your ** handed to you at every race knowing the others are cheating!

Good questions, Benotti69!

 

[Miburo]

Re:

I was reallu surprised hes basically already committing to the tour in 2017, especially since its its La Centesima (?)

He can change his mind, if he wins the tour this year, i don't see any reason to go again in 2017. He just need to prove that he can win this race postban

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

I was reallu surprised hes basically already committing to the tour in 2017, especially since its its La Centesima (?)

He can change his mind, if he wins the tour this year, i don't see any reason to go again in 2017. He just need to prove that he can win this race postban

Ahh, postban...therein lies all the difference.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

I was reallu surprised hes basically already committing to the tour in 2017, especially since its its La Centesima (?)

He can change his mind, if he wins the tour this year, i don't see any reason to go again in 2017. He just need to prove that he can win this race postban

Ahh, postban...therein lies all the difference.

For the wrong reasons though. I'm sad that you don't get the point of it.

Do you think Contador was a beast in 2011? I'm going assume that's a yes right?

Well Contador was already caught in 2011, so he had as many reasons to dope in that season as in 2013, 2014,...

Ahh see the difference?

 

[Zypherov]

If Contador does ride in the pro-ranks for a further two seasons, then best of luck to him. He is a huge draw for the fans and might I add sponsors.

 

[pastronef]

Re:

Hey, remember this? Good times.

never saw that. Lance seems pissed

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

never saw that. Lance seems pissed

Yeah, Lance is really letting him have it. The timing is perfect in this shot. With his tongue where it is, Lance looks like a serpent.