Why are UK riders now more successful?

[Galic Ho]

Chris Hoy doing five 631kg leg presses

That is absolutely bonkers. When I'm in shape, I do from memory, about 3 sets, upping the weight 20kg, with 10 reps per set. Starting at 140kg, so I finish at 180kg. I know I could do 250 for 5 reps, but to do over 500kg. I've never met anyone who could do that. Dibs on not standing in front of him if he ever decides to "This is Sparta" kick someone in the chest.

 

[zigmeister]

I think one just needs to look at track cycling in GBP and AUS. They actively go out and seek, from a very young age, people who have potential as athletes and show physical superiority.

Many British track cyclist today that are winning were recruited as a young age, like 10-12 or something when people came out to visit their school and do tests on bikes and physical abilities.

Then, if things went well, they are recruited to continue to test and hopefully train in a development program.

China has been doing this for years now, as well as Russia of course years ago.

In many other countries, like the US, you are on your own.

 

[Cancellator]

Wiggins is definitely going very well recently. Apparently losing tons of weight not only makes you a better TTer, but also improves your sprint! Out of the UK roadies, he's the one that stands out to me.

Before you say anything, I know he didn't have solid competition in the sprint. But there were still some guys that are supposed to be quicker than him.

 

[ultimobici]

I think one just needs to look at track cycling in GBP and AUS. They actively go out and seek, from a very young age, people who have potential as athletes and show physical superiority.

Many British track cyclist today that are winning were recruited as a young age, like 10-12 or something when people came out to visit their school and do tests on bikes and physical abilities.

Then, if things went well, they are recruited to continue to test and hopefully train in a development program.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that happens in the UK. We don't have British Cycling visiting to test in schools. They identify talent through clubs, visiting schools is just to get kids to try cycling.

 

[mb2612]

I think one just needs to look at track cycling in GBP and AUS. They actively go out and seek, from a very young age, people who have potential as athletes and show physical superiority.

Many British track cyclist today that are winning were recruited as a young age, like 10-12 or something when people came out to visit their school and do tests on bikes and physical abilities.

Then, if things went well, they are recruited to continue to test and hopefully train in a development program.

China has been doing this for years now, as well as Russia of course years ago.

In many other countries, like the US, you are on your own.

Yeah, the poor US, who spend more on their Women's Team pursuit annually than South Africa have for their entire cycling federation.

 

[Ripper]

Wiggins is definitely going very well recently. Apparently losing tons of weight not only makes you a better TTer, but also improves your sprint! Out of the UK roadies, he's the one that stands out to me.

Before you say anything, I know he didn't have solid competition in the sprint. But there were still some guys that are supposed to be quicker than him.

Yes, things are getting a bit weird with Wiggo, and that has caught my eye. Lost loads of weight, climbs better, TTs better, can sprint pretty well (or more acurately, can drill it so hard no one can sprint!), seems to recover just fine. At some point, major weight loss should impact some areas, say the more anaerobic stuff (sprinting) and recovery.

I will be very interested to see how he climbs and recovers in a 3 week GT this year. Generally speaking, racing well below your natural weight has impacts that Wiggo does not seem to be showing ... hmmmmmmm.

 

[andy1234]

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that happens in the UK. We don't have British Cycling visiting to test in schools. They identify talent through clubs, visiting schools is just to get kids to try cycling.

Not cloud cuckoo actually.
Talent spotting and testing through schools does happen.
The testing rigs may not be taken to the schools, but that is where the potential candidates are first assessed.
In fact we have world champions who were discovered in this way.

 

[simo1733]

Not cloud cuckoo actually.
Talent spotting and testing through schools does happen.
The testing rigs may not be taken to the schools, but that is where the potential candidates are first assessed.
In fact we have world champions who were discovered in this way.

Which world champions were discovered that way?

 

[Benotti69]

Which world champions were discovered that way?

http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/gbcyclingteam/bio/18


I think track world champions are what is being referred too.

Not Cavendish, who hails from Isle of Man and rode in a club where cycling is popular on the island.

 

[ultimobici]

Not cloud cuckoo actually.
Talent spotting and testing through schools does happen.
The testing rigs may not be taken to the schools, but that is where the potential candidates are first assessed.
In fact we have world champions who were discovered in this way.

More referring to the Chinese/Eastern Bloc parallel. Talent is identified in school but is in no way, shape or form developed in the intense way being alluded to.

 

[andy1234]

http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/gbcyclingteam/bio/18


I think track world champions are what is being referred too.

Not Cavendish, who hails from Isle of Man and rode in a club where cycling is popular on the island.

Ed Clancy is another.

 

[andy1234]

More referring to the Chinese/Eastern Bloc parallel. Talent is identified in school but is in no way, shape or form developed in the intense way being alluded to.

Again, not entirely true,

British cycling have a talent development tier system, where talent is taken through specific programmes for each of their developmental stages, ie 12 to 14, 14 to 16, 16 to 18, under 23.

Riders who make each of the grades, are selected for a "hot housing" programme where they live together, and train as professionals for the time they are in the programme.

By the time they turn pro,they have effectively already been riding as professionals for a number of years.

 

[Cancellator]

Yes, things are getting a bit weird with Wiggo, and that has caught my eye. Lost loads of weight, climbs better, TTs better, can sprint pretty well (or more acurately, can drill it so hard no one can sprint!), seems to recover just fine. At some point, major weight loss should impact some areas, say the more anaerobic stuff (sprinting) and recovery.

I will be very interested to see how he climbs and recovers in a 3 week GT this year. Generally speaking, racing well below your natural weight has impacts that Wiggo does not seem to be showing ... hmmmmmmm.

I don't get why more people aren't talking about this??

 

[The Hitch]

Just wondering. If we take the assumption that Wiggins doesnt dope, and that contador does - which he clearly does, doesn't that make Wiggins a better climber than Contador?

 

[Caruut]

Just wondering. If we take the assumption that Wiggins doesnt dope, and that contador does - which he clearly does, doesn't that make Wiggins a better climber than Contador?

Pretty big assumption to make.

I guess that's the thing I hate so much about doping. Even though almost all of them are at it, I have no idea which guys are just doing enough to stay competitive and who is going mental with no regards for their health.

 

[Ripper]

Just wondering. If we take the assumption that Wiggins doesnt dope, and that contador does - which he clearly does, doesn't that make Wiggins a better climber than Contador?

Badda Bing Badda Bam. That would be correct. He is also a better time trialist, sprinter, and has better recovery. And according to Wiggo himself, also riding well below his 'normal' riding/racing weight.

I guess he is just that good but was slacking all those initial years in the peloton

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Pretty big assumption to make.

I guess that's the thing I hate so much about doping. Even though almost all of them are at it, I have no idea which guys are just doing enough to stay competitive and who is going mental with no regards for their health.

I'm not convinced it's possible to go mental in that way anymore, at least not in high profile stage races.

Whilst i'm sure you can get decent and worthwhile benefits from doping, it's hard to do Riis impressions under the current regime.

And I'm relatively confident that Bertie would be top-dog in a clean peloton.

 

[Caruut]

I'm not convinced it's possible to go mental in that way anymore, at least not in high profile stage races.

Whilst i'm sure you can get decent and worthwhile benefits from doping, it's hard to do Riis impressions under the current regime.

And I'm relatively confident that Bertie would be top-dog in a clean peloton.

Aye certainly not the days of sleeping with heart monitors any more.

There's still going to be big differences, I think. I'm sure there are some clean riders with half-decent results, which there wouldn't have been in Riis's day, but I'm equally sure that there are some riders with enough budget to get the stuff that's not got a test yet, and political/federation backing.

One of the things that makes Alberto so remarkable is that he has the physiology and riding style of a classic explosive climber, yet he can TT well. The big drug era was characterised by TTers going up mountains well, like Indurain, and climbers getting more better time trials. Not sure exactly how much Alberto's remarkable TT for a man of his build is down to dope.

 

[slowspoke]

It is fair to say that Brad hasn't always given 100% to cycling.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/sep/30/bradleywiggins.cycling

So I don't find it toooo unbelievable about the weigh loss.

 

[Digger]

It is fair to say that Brad hasn't always given 100% to cycling.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/sep/30/bradleywiggins.cycling

So I don't find it toooo unbelievable about the weigh loss.

Yeah he did this for a few months in 2004...meanwhile in Tours such as 2007, his goal most days was finishing inside the time limit.
Michelle Smith came from nowhere to win three golds at 26. Her excuse...new diet, better technique, better training, lost fat, gained muscle.

Then she went full Irish stereotype and put whiskey into her urine sample.

I don;t trust anyone who improves this much so late in their career. And his blood values from 2009 were NOT beyond doubt by any means. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Ripper]

Anyway Wiggins has been outspoken on a lot of dopers in the past, like Vino, Rasmussen and Di Luca. He even called Di Luca a w***** on twitter when he was found positive for CERA. He even went on to say in the British media that cheats should be locked up and said David Millar shouldnt be allowed to ride in the Olympics. I think he should be praised for his stance on the issue and not people throwing unnecessary suspicion on him.

Fair enough, but one's public 'stance' does not make them not a doper. Calling other dopers names does not make one not a doper. Not saying he is, not saying he isn't. But I do find the mix of what he is doing well to be increasingly eyebrow raising.

 

[pmcg76]

Who could forget Michelle Smith in Ireland?

Well I remember another Irish swimmer Gary O`Toole seeing her a year before she won the golds in Atlanta and he said he told her to her face that her physique was not natural and told her to be very careful. Her husband who was Dutch won medals in the World and European Championships in the Discus and he went on to test positive himself for a doping offence himself in 1993 3 years before she won her own medals in Atlanta. So there was always suspicion on her as he was her coach as well.

FINA who are like the UCI in cycling said she was repeated unavailable for random out of competition testing.`

Anyway Wiggins has been outspoken on a lot of dopers in the past, like Vino, Rasmussen and Di Luca. He even called Di Luca a w***** on twitter when he was found positive for CERA. He even went on to say in the British media that cheats should be locked up and said David Millar shouldnt be allowed to ride in the Olympics. I think he should be praised for his stance on the issue and not people throwing unnecessary suspicion on him.

But the catch is Wiggins said most of those things when he was a nobody on the road scene, since he has developed into a contender with the big guys, he has become noticeably much quietier on the subject of doping. In fact he never mentions it anymore. Correct me if I am wrong but was Wiggins ever signed up to Bikepure cos he aint now.

 

[will10]

Yeah he did this for a few months in 2004...meanwhile in Tours such as 2007, his goal most days was finishing inside the time limit.
Michelle Smith came from nowhere to win three golds at 26. Her excuse...new diet, better technique, better training, lost fat, gained muscle.

Then she went full Irish stereotype and put whiskey into her urine sample.

I don;t trust anyone who improves this much so late in their career. And his blood values from 2009 were NOT beyond doubt by any means. Quite the opposite in fact.

Can you expand on this?

 

[FignonLeGrand]

Yeah he did this for a few months in 2004...meanwhile in Tours such as 2007, his goal most days was finishing inside the time limit.
Michelle Smith came from nowhere to win three golds at 26. Her excuse...new diet, better technique, better training, lost fat, gained muscle.

Then she went full Irish stereotype and put whiskey into her urine sample.

I don;t trust anyone who improves this much so late in their career. And his blood values from 2009 were NOT beyond doubt by any means. Quite the opposite in fact.

Its not quite fair to say he has suddenly developed so late in his career. If you split his career on road and track his focus on the road career is also pretty late. He didnt really give road priority until after 2008 (? ish) so it could be expected that his road craft might develop more despite him being relatively old in terms of a pro.

I am a brit and I dont want to sound too biased however the track regime has always been very anti doping and this may have fed through into the riders when they turned pro. Genuine question not sarcastic, has any one who came from the GB track set up tested positive?

 

[Ferminal]

There's no doubt that Wiggins held a very strong position against doping, remember in 2007 when Cofidis left the race?

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/?id=/riders/2007/interviews/tour_wiggins_post07