Why are UK riders now more successful?

[El Pistolero]

Well I will give you some credit for saying that about Di Luca. But on a different issue you said nothing about Contador but you always criticse Frank and Fuentes. Why dont you criticise all dopers and stop this selective criticism? If you criticise all dopers just like you did with Di Luca I would happily give you full credit. No problem.

Every rider deserves a second chance, that's why I don't feel the need to criticize Contador, he's been punished.

Di Luca has been involved in what? 4 doping cases by now? And in all those cases the court has found him guilty, that's why I think he shouldn't be riding anymore.

Frank on the other hand, will never get punished because he lives in a country that only has 2 heroes.

 

[Digger]

I have no problem with questioning a rider when there is an allegation or rumour against them, but there is nothing against Wiggins whatsoever. Wiggins had done a lot more to remove any suspicion on himself by releasing his blood profiles. I dont see a lot of other riders doing something similiar by trying to remove suspicion on themselves.

And those values from the 2009 tour were certainly not without suspicion.

 

[Havetts]

I have no problem with questioning a rider when there is an allegation or rumour against them, but there is nothing against Wiggins whatsoever. Wiggins had done a lot more to remove any suspicion on himself by releasing his blood profiles. I dont see a lot of other riders doing something similiar by trying to remove suspicion on themselves.

Are they publicly available? If so do you have a link, I'm interested.

 

[roundabout]

I have no problem with questioning a rider when there is an allegation or rumour against them, but there is nothing against Wiggins whatsoever. Wiggins had done a lot more to remove any suspicion on himself by releasing his blood profiles. I dont see a lot of other riders doing something similiar by trying to remove suspicion on themselves.

I didn't think that a controlled release of a small set of data 3 years ago would mean that much to you. It's good that he did it, no doubt, but worth keeping in mind that he was also a 5 on the suspicion index in 2010.

 

[goggalor]

you are a spineless w*nker who wouldnt have the balls to say it in person

thats not me you understand, its the latest tweet from @bradwiggins http://twitter.com/#!/bradwiggins/status/196685370220494848

It's strange how dopers get upset at people who say they're doping. Like Lance always getting p*ssed at people for not believing him when he lies. It's a truly ****ed up mindset.

 

[roundabout]

Are they publicly available? If so do you have a link, I'm interested.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/385285/bradley-wiggins-tour-de-france-blood-values.html

I think that is it.

 

[goggalor]

"I cautioned Jonathan about whenever you release anything like that you'll always have amateur armchair haematologists and physiologists putting their spin on what the numbers are showing."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-values-point-to-cleaner-peloton

Indeed.

 

[The Hitch]

It's strange how dopers get upset at people who say they're doping. Like Lance always getting p*ssed at people for not believing him when he lies. It's a truly ****ed up mindset.

Thats a very unfair portrayal of the clinic.

There are people here who accuse wiggins there are people here who defend him and there are people who can't make their mind up, or have no opinion, or just want to read about the subject.

Sounds a lot like the troll who often visits here called Mambo 95 and his campaign to portray everyone here as *** and that everyone here has the same mindset.

 

[hrotha]

I have no problem with questioning a rider when there is an allegation or rumour against them, but there is nothing against Wiggins whatsoever. Wiggins had done a lot more to remove any suspicion on himself by releasing his blood profiles. I dont see a lot of other riders doing something similiar by trying to remove suspicion on themselves.

Yeah, only guys like Wiggins, Armstrong and Basso have done it AFAIK.

 

[pmcg76]

As others have pointed out, its the hypocrisy of Wiggin's and indeed Cavendish who slate those already busted but play buddies with someone like Armstrong.

I am sure if it was put to them, they would argue that Armstrong is not proven to have doped or some BS like that. I understand the lesser light's taking this position as most of them cannot afford to **** people off to keep their careers but guys like Wiggins and Cavendish are powerful enough to do so.

The easiest thing to do to appear anti-doping is to slate those already busted but it is also hypocritical. People are ciritical of Garmin and their approach but rarely do we hear Vaughters or his team openly slating riders busted for doping.

 

[hrotha]

Basso only published his ones after his return from suspension.

Have it your way. That leaves us with Wiggins and Armstrong.

 

[Bala Verde]

Are wiggins values still up on his/sky's website? Basso's values were discussed here and those PDFs are still available. I don't know if basso still regularly releases his test results on that same (Mapei) website he used previously? Did he stop publishing those?

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=3120

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Wiggins released his blood profiles and they were widely regarded as showing nothing wrong. People just jumped on a statement from that fool Landis.

Basso released his after his suspension after working with Aldo Sassi.

Armstrong released his in 2009 and they were questioned by respectable people at the time.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/analysis-armstrongs-tour-blood-levels-debated

Actually, Jacob Morekeberg did comment on Wiggins biopass data after the 2009 tour, implying that the values were not entirely normal. I can't find the full article now though. Perhaps someone with better google skills can dig it out.

From memory, his hemoglobin concentration started at over 16, which would put his crit close to the old 50% threshold. The decline in hgb during the tour was only about 8%, which was the lower limit observed in a small study on the subject. There may have also been a small blip in the data around the time of the second rest day? So nothing glaringly obvious but not exactly matching what the experts might expect of a clean tour rider.

Note that I haven't stated that I'm convinced he dopes. In fact I haven't formed a definite opinion on that subject. I'm just noticing the little snippets of info as they float by......

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Actually, Jacob Morekeberg did comment on Wiggins biopass data after the 2009 tour, implying that the values were not entirely normal. I can't find the full article now though. Perhaps someone with better google skills can dig it out.

From memory, his hemoglobin concentration started at over 16, which would put his crit close to the old 50% threshold. The decline in hgb during the tour was only about 8%, which was the lower limit observed in a small study on the subject. There may have also been a small blip in the data around the time of the second rest day? So nothing glaringly obvious but not exactly matching what the experts might expect of a clean tour rider.

Note that I haven't stated that I'm convinced he dopes. In fact I haven't formed a definite opinion on that subject. I'm just noticing the little snippets of info as they float by......

He recorded a higher value in the third week than at the start of the race.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Ok, that's a bigger blip than I remembered!

 

[Hugh Januss]

As others have pointed out, its the hypocrisy of Wiggin's and indeed Cavendish who slate those already busted but play buddies with someone like Armstrong.

I am sure if it was put to them, they would argue that Armstrong is not proven to have doped or some BS like that. I understand the lesser light's taking this position as most of them cannot afford to **** people off to keep their careers but guys like Wiggins and Cavendish are powerful enough to do so.

The easiest thing to do to appear anti-doping is to slate those already busted but it is also hypocritical. People are ciritical of Garmin and their approach but rarely do we hear Vaughters or his team openly slating riders busted for doping.

Why would they be trying to out the ones who are getting away with it while they are trying to join the same club?

 

[Digger]

Actually, Jacob Morekeberg did comment on Wiggins biopass data after the 2009 tour, implying that the values were not entirely normal. I can't find the full article now though. Perhaps someone with better google skills can dig it out.

From memory, his hemoglobin concentration started at over 16, which would put his crit close to the old 50% threshold. The decline in hgb during the tour was only about 8%, which was the lower limit observed in a small study on the subject. There may have also been a small blip in the data around the time of the second rest day? So nothing glaringly obvious but not exactly matching what the experts might expect of a clean tour rider.

Note that I haven't stated that I'm convinced he dopes. In fact I haven't formed a definite opinion on that subject. I'm just noticing the little snippets of info as they float by......[/QUOTE]

This........

 

[hrotha]

Come on man.

Its laughable to say Di Luca is not controversial.


Just look at this quote from Marco Pinotti in an interview.

Q:For example, Danilo Di Luca gave an interview this winter explaining why he collaborated with the Italian Olympic Committee’s (CONI) anti-doping commission. He said he’d done it “because he couldn’t stand being away from races”. There was no notion of him doing it to serve the sport.

MP: This is hypocrisy at its worst. Don’t get me started on Di Luca because if you do we’ll still be here tomorrow morning. I don’t want to talk about him.

Di Luca is the biggest hypocrite of them all. Wiggins is right about him. He is a w*****.

I missed this.

How many people here do you think disagree with that opinion on Di Luca? Very few. How many of those participate in the Clinic? Practically zero. As far as the Clinic is concerned, there's no controversy about Di Luca. We all know he doped to the gills, we all know he's been involved in so many doping cases he's like Gaumont and Roux combined, and I bet most people here think he's a hypocrite who only regrets getting caught. That's why he'll only be talked about when he's on the news, which thankfully isn't often.

Compare that to Wiggins. We do not and cannot know for sure whether he's clean or dirty, and whenever one of the two theories is mentioned many people will challenge it. He's also in the news quite frequently, and the mainly British media forumers here follow is biased in his favour. His hypocrisy shouldn't be controversial either, as it's a plain fact, yet here we are.

 

[simoni]

I guess, at the end of the day, Wiggins and Cavendish are professional cyclists with families to support and not part time unpaid anti-doping evangelists.

Making a song and dance about doping in cycling makes your life hard. Call it hypocrisy if you like. Many others call it the real world.

I imagine they've both thought "sod it" and decided to just get on with life.

 

[thingswelike]

Wiggins has said in the past that the more he focusses on who and who isn't doping in the peloton, the worse his mental attitude becomes.

That's one of the reasons (imo) that he's so pleased with winning races - he knows that it's possible clean and that as long as he's focusses on getting his mental state right and he's in the right condition, he can win.

That's a big difference to how he was feeling in that Cofidis interview posted earlier, where he was just hopeful for some point in the future (maybe just thinking that Geraint would be the one to benefit).

My gut says the whole of BC is clean, including Wiggo. Imagine how it must feel to know you were going against the grain for so long and now it's paying off!

 

[Digger]

If Bradley decides he wants to feed hid family and make life easier by not critcising the likes of lance, fair enough. But it's dead wrong to pick and choose the way he is doing it. He basically picks the ones who can't get near him again. The ones he cycles with, he's sh&&less to say anything. That's unforgivable. Either say nothing at all, or be fair. And not alone has he said nothing about lance, he regularly holds him up as someone they should all aspire to. How does that fit with someone who is supposedly anti-doping? To hold one of the biggest cheats in the history of cycling up as someone to copy is wrong.

 

[Ferminal]

Wiggins has said in the past that the more he focusses on who and who isn't doping in the peloton, the worse his mental attitude becomes.

That's one of the reasons (imo) that he's so pleased with winning races - he knows that it's possible clean and that as long as he's focusses on getting his mental state right and he's in the right condition, he can win.

That's a big difference to how he was feeling in that Cofidis interview posted earlier, where he was just hopeful for some point in the future (maybe just thinking that Geraint would be the one to benefit).

My gut says the whole of BC is clean, including Wiggo. Imagine how it must feel to know you were going against the grain for so long and now it's paying off!

I'm sure Andy Schleck will have the same satisfaction when Amaury confirm him as the 2010 Tour winner.

 

[spalco]

you are a spineless w*nker who wouldnt have the balls to say it in person

thats not me you understand, its the latest tweet from @bradwiggins http://twitter.com/#!/bradwiggins/status/196685370220494848

That's ****ing hilarious. What are you going to do if someone comes up to you person and talks to you about doping, Mr. Wiggins? Squirt him with your water bottle? Sick Evans' chihuahua on him?

 

[thingswelike]

Sick Evans' chihuahua on him?

Is that what you meant to say? It's an image that made me laugh anyway!

 

[Benotti69]

That's ****ing hilarious. What are you going to do if someone comes up to you person and talks to you about doping, Mr. Wiggins? Squirt him with your water bottle? Sick Evans' chihuahua on him?

Just like when Wiggin's went up to Armstrong and told it straight to his face! Oh yeah Wiggins has a big spine alright, he seems to only find when writing on Twitter

I really like the idea that some posters think that Wiggins and Cav have put their heads down and their arms out for the transfusions because they have a family and need to make ends meet.

UK riders have joined the 'club' and become fully paid up members that is all.