Why Lance will dodge this bullet.

[Moose McKnuckles]

I have to agree with that...but only with this thought and question.

Didn't that chase down incident require the majority of the peloton participate?

From reading the description of what transpired, apparently a lot of the riders were looking at themselves thinking "WTF?". T-Mobile went up to ask what Lance was doing, since they were just as surprised themselves. Honestly, I don't think this was an action that was sanctioned by the entire peloton, but rather Lance's unilateral action as the patron.

 

[Wolves-Lower]

From reading the description of what transpired, apparently a lot of the riders were looking at themselves thinking "WTF?". T-Mobile went up to ask what Lance was doing, since they were just as surprised themselves. Honestly, I don't think this was an action that was sanctioned by the entire peloton, but rather Lance's unilateral action as the patron.

I have to say the Peloton bears some responsibility for that incident. They let him go making them part of it.
Lance 95% *** that day...Peloton 5%...Deal?

 

[Benotti69]

...

This, of course, is hardly surprising, since these people showed their colors on that fateful day when Armstrong chased down Simeoni.

Did he not do something similar to Basson's and yes it was a despicable act that he was allowed to get away with. Dictator LA laid down the law and it's despicable how many let him away with it...

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I have to say the Peloton bears some responsibility for that incident. They let him go making them part of it.
Lance 95% *** that day...Peloton 5%...Deal?

Yes, I can agree with that. The peloton might even be higher than 5%, (even excluding Lance's team.)

 

[Oldman]

By 'now' you mean 2005?

A large part of the issue is that the perception of guilt has no bearing on a guilty finding via the courts...USA: Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If there is reasonable doubt, there cannot be guilt.

I owe a clarification: not that any of that information could lead to a criminal conviction. The media pressure and light shed on USA Cycling, as with the UCI means those organizations will need to respond other than trying to "wish" the problem away.
As for Guilt beyond a reasonable doubt: not in a Civil action for fraud. That's why the Fed's are interested in what happened with USPS sponsor money and that makes it different than Balco and the Baseball goons. That baseball enjoys a monopoly status compelled Congress to act, not USADA regulations or misuse of public funds.
As for LA-others have noted his love of the limelight and his endorsement income. Public perception can be everything.

 

[hfer07]

LA has behind his branded image, powerful players like Nike Co., Demand media Inc. & the Cancer Community-which they're deeply interested in "protecting" their investment. those mega companies may persuade a delay or derail the investigation, so it wouldn't have any effect by the time LA & Co. are out the sport/public for good-and the left overs can be a mere control damage

sad but possible

 

[eleven]

I don't quite think Lance would be fine with that outcome. Look at how much he enjoys the celebrity lifestyle.

I didn't mean to say that he would be fine with the outcome, overall. I should have been more clear. What I meant was, relative to the potential penalties a life out of the limelight but free and still maintaining a sizable base of fans.

You don't exactly see Clemens and Bonds out in public much. Yes, McGwire got a job as a hitting coach, but he came out before actually working as a coach and took the crap when he started. Immediately after retirement McGwire went away in hiding and nobody really heard from him except the infamous testimony before Congress. Lance didn't exactly do this after retirement 1.0.

Thats kind of what I meant. While they are no longer in the limelight, they are happily living private lives. McGwire made a decision to return to baseball and I'm pretty sure Clemens could land a job with a team if he wanted it as well, but he seems content to avoid the hassle.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

What is readily apparent is that many Lance supporters don't really care whether or not this helps cycling, but rather how Lance will come out of this unscathed.

This, of course, is hardly surprising, since these people showed their colors on that fateful day when Armstrong chased down Simeoni.

They follow Lance 'The Myth' . Wherever he goes. What he actually does (cycling, boffing starlets, awards shows, 'charities') is rather incidental to their interest in the profession which was how he made his name to begin with.

I think they are just in love with story line: Cheated death, became greatest cyclist ever. They love the story too much to allow it to be tainted, and thus the insane defense of him.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

I didn't mean to say that he would be fine with the outcome, overall. I should have been more clear. What I meant was, relative to the potential penalties a life out of the limelight but free and still maintaining a sizable base of fans.




Thats kind of what I meant. While they are no longer in the limelight, they are happily living private lives. McGwire made a decision to return to baseball and I'm pretty sure Clemens could land a job with a team if he wanted it as well, but he seems content to avoid the hassle.

I would tend to disagree. it could be a bit of Tomato, to-MAH-to, but these guys live for the limelight. Why do you think Clemens suddenly had a second career after he discovered hgh? (I may have misremebered a few details, apologies) Guys like these aren't satisfied being put out to pasture. they'd just as soon be dead. Or take the risk of losing everything by using ped's.

But as far as losing freedom, I think Clemens is the only one who is running that risk and even for him, it would likely be community service and a fine. I can't see Lance doing a day in any facility. If he goes away now, I could live with that. But it would be sweet to see him stripped of his tdf's.

 

[eleven]

I would tend to disagree. it could be a bit of Tomato, to-MAH-to, but these guys live for the limelight. Why do you think Clemens suddenly had a second career after he discovered hgh? (I may have misremebered a few details, apologies) Guys like these aren't satisfied being put out to pasture. they'd just as soon be dead. Or take the risk of losing everything by using ped's.

But as far as losing freedom, I think Clemens is the only one who is running that risk and even for him, it would likely be community service and a fine. I can't see Lance doing a day in any facility. If he goes away now, I could live with that. But it would be sweet to see him stripped of his tdf's.

There is no way they could strip him of TDF's. That would be opening a can of worms ten miles deep. We'd have to strip Ulrich of his victory and his podium finishes.

Pantani of his victory.

Indurain of most or all of his victories.

And the podium of TDF's in the past 10 years would be barren.

 

[Wolves-Lower]

There is no way they could strip him of TDF's. That would be opening a can of worms ten miles deep. We'd have to strip Ulrich of his victory and his podium finishes.

Pantani of his victory.

Indurain of most or all of his victories.

And the podium of TDF's in the past 10 years would be barren.

Sounds like a terrific PLAN to me...leave them white as snow!

 

[eleven]

Sounds like a terrific PLAN to me...leave them white as snow!

From Flamme-Rouge to Malliot Jaune overnight!

Is your username a Chronic Town reference? I still love that EP.

 

[Squares]

Now, that the officials know what is going on they will surely catch future offenders.

The key is what you said right there.

It is well documented in the scientific literature that the half life in blood of EPO decreases significantly when switching from subcutaneous administration to intravenous, like Landis said.

However, it is also well documented that it doesn't work as well from intravenous injection so you have to increase the dose to higher and higher levels to get the same effect nd risking detection because of the higher dose.

So, if Landis knows what he is talking about, Ashenden (who made the scientifically impossible statement that his autologous transfusion assay was free from false positives, but that is a side note) will be able to figure out how to catch more dopers for using EPO by intravenous injection.

If there isn't a flurry of new positives, then Landis' story won't hold water.

The proor, they say, is in the pudding. I'm grabbing my popcorn and waiting to see.

 

[Benotti69]

If there isn't a flurry of new positives, then Landis' story won't hold water.

The proor, they say, is in the pudding. I'm grabbing my popcorn and waiting to see.

that's what LA/UCI will hope for, but since UCI do the testing what's gonna change hey?????

this is a controlled environment where everyone on the inside knows what going on, we the saps on the outside sometimes get a glimpse when they send a sacrificial lamb out to us....

 

[Wolves-Lower]

From Flamme-Rouge to Malliot Jaune overnight!

Is your username a Chronic Town reference? I still love that EP.

That would be correct! However its my kids that play it now!

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

As to the OP and Lance "dodging the bullet" I'd say there's more than one bullet, and he's already been at least winged.

Will he go to jail? Probably not.

Will he get convicted of anything? Probably not, if so it will take years (like BALCO)

Will he keep his 7 TDF titles? Probably.

Looks good so far, huh? Keep reading:

Will his reputation now be tarnished so that the average person assumes he doped? Probably.

Will his sponsorship and product sales take a lasting hit? Probably.

Will he race again? Probably not.

Will others speak out, or testify against him? Probably.

Will all this pass quickly, so he can go back to espousing his being clean? No, it will very likely hang over him for a long, long time, pushing him out of the limelight.

.

 

[Oldman]

As to the OP and Lance "dodging the bullet" I'd say there's more than one bullet, and he's already been at least winged.

Will he go to jail? Probably not.

Will he get convicted of anything? Probably not, if so it will take years (like BALCO)

Will he keep his 7 TDF titles? Probably.

Looks good so far, huh? Keep reading:

Will his reputation now be tarnished so that the average person assumes he doped? Probably.

Will his sponsorship and product sales take a lasting hit? Probably.

Will he race again? Probably not.

Will others speak out, or testify against him? Probably.

Will all this pass quickly, so he can go back to espousing his being clean? No, it will very likely hang over him for a long, long time, pushing him out of the limelight.

.

I agree as stated earlier but add emphasis:

I owe a clarification: not that any of that information could lead to a criminal conviction. The media pressure and light shed on USA Cycling, as with the UCI means those organizations will need to respond other than trying to "wish" the problem away. As for Guilt beyond a reasonable doubt: not in a Civil action for fraud. That's why the Fed's are interested in what happened with USPS sponsor money and that makes it different than Balco and the Baseball goons. That baseball enjoys a monopoly status compelled Congress to act, not USADA regulations or misuse of public funds.
As for LA-others have noted his love of the limelight and his endorsement income. Public perception can be everything.

hopefully cleaning up the facilitators a bit will start some progress. LA is the target but it'd be great to sweep up some of the other folks profitting from this mess.

 

[theswordsman]

I doubt anything will come out of this. Now, that the officials know what is going on they will surely catch future offenders. I doubt they will pursue past offenders and this will all fizzle out as time passes.

The title "Lance will dodge this bullet" reminded me of a scene from an old James Garner Western, either Support Your Local Sheriff, or Support Your Local Gunfighter. The town mayor handed him a Sheriff's badge that had a dent from a bullet. Garner said the badge sure must have saved the life of the man wearing it. The mayor said it sure would have, if it weren't for all the other bullets coming in from everywhere.

Te possibility of not just doping, but fraud, trafficking, racketeering, and all the rest, plus an investigation that allows wiretaps, access to financial records, subpoena power, a lawsuit won with lies. The bullets are flying.

As for the future of the sport, the ESPN article with Ashenden and Catlin showing what they learned from Landis about circumventing the passport is huge. I think the Tour de France will be a better place because of it. The WADA is already planning to watch the UCI testing process like a hawk. Let the AFLD to additional targeted testing in conjunction with info from OCLAESP & Interpol, and have law enforcement keeo an eye on the comings and goings. It's going to be a really interesting race. And guys who get busted this summer will probably open up like Kohl and Frei did, in exchange for leniency.

 

[Oldman]

The title "Lance will dodge this bullet" reminded me of a scene from an old James Garner Western, either Support Your Local Sheriff, or Support Your Local Gunfighter. The town mayor handed him a Sheriff's badge that had a dent from a bullet. Garner said the badge sure must have saved the life of the man wearing it. The mayor said it sure would have, if it weren't for all the other bullets coming in from everywhere.

Te possibility of not just doping, but fraud, trafficking, racketeering, and all the rest, plus an investigation that allows wiretaps, access to financial records, subpoena power, a lawsuit won with lies. The bullets are flying.

As for the future of the sport, the ESPN article with Ashenden and Catlin showing what they learned from Landis about circumventing the passport is huge. I think the Tour de France will be a better place because of it. The WADA is already planning to watch the UCI testing process like a hawk. Let the AFLD to additional targeted testing in conjunction with info from OCLAESP & Interpol, and have law enforcement keeo an eye on the comings and goings. It's going to be a really interesting race. And guys who get busted this summer will probably open up like Kohl and Frei did, in exchange for leniency.

I loved that movie and the reference as it rings true. The added aspect of ASO picking up their toys and going to a new playground will also undermine the authority of those under fire now. If they don't have a thumb on the sports biggest venues they have, as the kids say: ****.

 

[Boeing]

Cooperation doesn't mean information....

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

The title "Lance will dodge this bullet" reminded me of a scene from an old James Garner Western, either Support Your Local Sheriff, or Support Your Local Gunfighter. The town mayor handed him a Sheriff's badge that had a dent from a bullet. Garner said the badge sure must have saved the life of the man wearing it. The mayor said it sure would have, if it weren't for all the other bullets coming in from everywhere.

Great reference Swordsman!

I don't know it will get that heavy at Lance, and I'm hoping much more of the focus is at USA Cycling and the UCI, but we'll see.

 

[Joey_J]

As for the future of the sport, the ESPN article with Ashenden and Catlin showing what they learned from Landis about circumventing the passport is huge.

Isn’t it comforting that an uneducated Mennonite hick from the sticks knows more about doping than Dr Ashenden and Dr Catlin.

Yea, it would never have occurred to me to work with an ex or compliant cyclist to find out how to beat the system.

 

[Oldman]

Isn’t it comforting that an uneducated Mennonite hick from the sticks knows more about doping than Dr Ashenden and Dr Catlin.

Yea, it would never have occurred to me to work with an ex or compliant cyclist to find out how to beat the system.

As the cyclists slowly became to know it; as the major advantage in their job. They rode countless hours in crappy weather. They know the effect of the geeks programs more than you or I. How do you think the drug consultants analyze the effectiveness of their hypothetical training regimes?

 

[Joey_J]

As the cyclists slowly became to know it; as the major advantage in their job. They rode countless hours in crappy weather. They know the effect of the geeks programs more than you or I. How do you think the drug consultants analyze the effectiveness of their hypothetical training regimes?

Not really sure what your point is but can we all agree that the next time Dr Ashenden stands up to tell us he’s the “undisputed, irreproachable, irrefutable expert” on all things doping, we can tell him to sit the F down and shut the F up.

 

[Oldman]

Not really sure what your point is but can we all agree that the next time Dr Ashenden stands up to tell us he’s the “undisputed, irreproachable, irrefutable expert” on all things doping, we can tell him to sit the F down and shut the F up.

....and, my point; be motivated because he only knows from having witnessed the guinea pigs that actually took the PED regime and performed. The riders, however damaged, know more than any of the people in this argument.