why spain produces so many talents?

[DavidVilla7]

They even won the cross country skiing 30k in the 2002 olympic.... ooohh wait

hahha, yes that's a typical spanish sport!


I mean tennis and soccer. ( obvious) And they are good in basketball too with gasol and rubio...
O yeah and formula 1 ( ok only alonso)


And Motogp ofcourse>>> Julian simon wordchampion 125cc this year.
And onther big talents like : Pol espargaro and Marc Marquez.
250 cc champions Jorge lorenzo and Dani Pedrosa ( now in Motogp)
Next year he will kick rossi's ***.
and ofcourse bautista, Barbera

O yeah and Dany Torres

ok i'm bored!

Do they use dope there too, in motorcycling?

 

[sadfitty]

Spanish Tour victories in the 86 years before EPO hit the marked: 3
Spanish Tour victories in the 21 years after EPO: 9
Just sayin'.....

Also: Spanish riders in the top 10 in GC 1990-2006(average of 16 tours): 2.75
Spanish riders in the top 10 in GC after Puerto(average of 4 tours):3.25
Pretty small samples here, but doesn't seem like Puerto slowed the Spaniards down too much....

 

[Angliru]

For the same reason Mayo blows everyone's doors off, up Alpe d'Huez. They get on good programs.

The dope does it, I am convinced.

But the Spaniards are not alone, everyone has the same opportunity to take the plunge. Spain has an easier enforcement policy to subvert.

In Mayo's defense, Armstrong didn't see Mayo as a threat, that is why he was allowed to escape and win Alpe d'Huez, that and Beloki had shot his load previously on several failed attacks. Mayo wasn't any limberger now, he had talent but talent coupled with a very fragile psychie, something that was/is believed to be stereotypically common in pure climbers.

Plus I'm a Mayo fan so all of the above is from a biased perspective.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Dominating?

I'd say Penelope Cruz has something to do with it...

She make me feel strong like bull!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Interesting thread!

While PED's might explain some of the success I don't think it could explain the sheer volume coming through Spanish cycling at the moment.

One theory I have - Indurain. If a kid of 11 was following Big Mig in 1991 then they would be 29ish now. If they were 11 in 1995 then they would be 25ish now - which is pretty close to the ages of a lot of the talented riders.

 

[ak-zaaf]

American Tour victories in the 86 years before EPO hit the marked: 3
American Tour victories in the 21 years after EPO: 7

Just sayin'.....

 

[ak-zaaf]

One theory I have - Indurain. If a kid of 11 was following Big Mig in 1991 then they would be 29ish now. If they were 11 in 1995 then they would be 25ish now - which is pretty close to the ages of a lot of the talented riders.

That's probably one of the main reasons.

 

[aarnold517]

Interesting thread!

While PED's might explain some of the success I don't think it could explain the sheer volume coming through Spanish cycling at the moment.

One theory I have - Indurain. If a kid of 11 was following Big Mig in 1991 then they would be 29ish now. If they were 11 in 1995 then they would be 25ish now - which is pretty close to the ages of a lot of the talented riders.

i think that could be a large part of it doc...it seems like whenever a sport has someone dominate like big mig dominated the tour for those five years, it has a huge influence on up-and-coming athletes about ten to fifteen years later...we will learn a lot more about this theory in about five years. if the theory holds true professional cycling GC's will be dominated by american riders. if it isn't, then it might just be doping that is helping spaniards win so many grand tours

 

[Cogombre]

hahha, yes that's a typical spanish sport!


I mean tennis and soccer. ( obvious) And they are good in basketball too with gasol and rubio...
O yeah and formula 1 ( ok only alonso)


And Motogp ofcourse>>> Julian simon wordchampion 125cc this year.
And onther big talents like : Pol espargaro and Marc Marquez.
250 cc champions Jorge lorenzo and Dani Pedrosa ( now in Motogp)
Next year he will kick rossi's ***.
and ofcourse bautista, Barbera

O yeah and Dany Torres

ok i'm bored!

Do they use dope there too, in motorcycling?

So do you mean that spaniards are superior...for no reason?

We have had only one big talent in F1 ever, Espagaró and Marquez are no better riders than Bradley Smith or Jonas Folger (so far), and we have a 125cc champion whose previous career was average and nothing more until he had the best bike and was the most experienced contender of the category. Moreover, MotoGP is becoming a sort of private Spain vs Italy championship. I don't know were in the world are the american riders, you have your own championship, don't you?

In tennis we have some fairly good players. Some of them know pretty good Fuentes, though.

Anyway, the domination of Spain in cycling is, by far, bigger than in any of those sports (Basket: ever heard about the USA?, say thanks that both the USSR and Yugo disappeared; Football: ever heard about the USA and Brazil?), and those sports have, by far, more acceptance in the spanish people.

The Spanish sport is living a golden age, but the goverment's attitude makes it difficult to know what percentage of that success is because of talent, and what because of cheat.

 

[python]

i think that could be a large part of it doc...it seems like whenever a sport has someone dominate like big mig dominated the tour for those five years, it has a huge influence on up-and-coming athletes about ten to fifteen years later...we will learn a lot more about this theory in about five years. if the theory holds true professional cycling GC's will be dominated by american riders. if it isn't, then it might just be doping that is helping spaniards win so many grand tours

true but with one big caveat.

spain has had deep and rich european tradition to feed on whilst america's licensed road racers today or during armstrong's era essentially number(ed) the same as in lemond's days -40-60K - a small fraction of the corresponding spanish, italian or french stats.

 

[Señor_Contador]

# 1 reason is climate. They have >20º days than anyone in Europe. Their climbs are amongst the hardest in th world (and open 7-8 months per year). Their level of competition in the amateur and profesional ranks is high. And... why deny it? Their government's attitude towards doping is "you're on your own bud".

 

[issoisso]

# 1 reason is climate. They have >20º days than anyone in Europe.

Are Portugal and Greece in Africa now?

 

[DavidVilla7]

So do you mean that spaniards are superior...for no reason?

We have had only one big talent in F1 ever, Espagaró and Marquez are no better riders than Bradley Smith or Jonas Folger (so far), and we have a 125cc champion whose previous career was average and nothing more until he had the best bike and was the most experienced contender of the category. Moreover, MotoGP is becoming a sort of private Spain vs Italy championship. I don't know were in the world are the american riders, you have your own championship, don't you?

In tennis we have some fairly good players. Some of them know pretty good Fuentes, though.

Anyway, the domination of Spain in cycling is, by far, bigger than in any of those sports (Basket: ever heard about the USA?, say thanks that both the USSR and Yugo disappeared; Football: ever heard about the USA and Brazil?), and those sports have, by far, more acceptance in the spanish people.

The Spanish sport is living a golden age, but the goverment's attitude makes it difficult to know what percentage of that success is because of talent, and what because of cheat.

I think spain has more domination in soccer then in cycling. (only since a year)
Yes Brazil, do they have clubs like Real Madrid and Barca?
Btw, do the english have any motogp riders in the highest class, LIKE lorenzo and pedrosa? ( only toseland )

 

[python]

# 1 reason is climate. They have >20º days than anyone in Europe. Their climbs are amongst the hardest in th world (and open 7-8 months per year). Their level of competition in the amateur and profesional ranks is high. And... why deny it? Their government's attitude towards doping is "you're on your own bud".

hear, hear

señor do you have some numbers from ferc on the level of competitor in the amateur ranks.

 

[ruamruam]

Are Portugal and Greece in Africa now?

Greece or even Portugal do not have the same cycling tradition that Spain has.

Every time I go to Spain I am always amazed by the sheer numbers of cyclists you see on the road and plenty of young cyclists.

I don't doubt doping has it's part to play but the sheer numbers must be a factor.

 

[issoisso]

Greece or even Portugal do not have the same cycling tradition that Spain has.

Every time I go to Spain I am always amazed by the sheer numbers of cyclists you see on the road and plenty of young cyclists.

I don't doubt doping has it's part to play but the sheer numbers must be a factor.

That's quite correct, but......it has nothing to do with the point
Let me remind you. He claimed that

They have >20º days than anyone in Europe.

 

[Avoriaz]

Spanish Tour victories in the 86 years before EPO hit the marked: 3
Spanish Tour victories in the 21 years after EPO: 9
Just sayin'.....

Also: Spanish riders in the top 10 in GC 1990-2006(average of 16 tours): 2.75
Spanish riders in the top 10 in GC after Puerto(average of 4 tours):3.25
Pretty small samples here, but doesn't seem like Puerto slowed the Spaniards down too much....

Spanish Riders winning the Tour pre-EPO: 3 (Bahamontes, Delgado, Ocana)

Spanish Riders winning the Tour post-EPO: 4 (Indurain, Pereiro, Sastre, Contador)

 

[rhubroma]

i know I know it’s a controversial question and i even wanted to create a poll to keep it inside some meaningful speculation limits.

yeah .. superior doping doctors, legal loophole till recently, dope friendly fed etc etc. whatever. but seriously is it all enough to explain 3 spaniards on the top of the uci rankings and spain dominating nation roster? france and italy are also bike mad but they can’t match spain.

Why?

is there some special obsession with velo or it’s a superior youth selection system? is spanish terrain and climate a factor ? Is it something else? opinions of those living in spain would be especially interesting.

What do you think.

Italy can't match Spain? Well up until recently Italy had (or still has) Bettini, Basso, Ricco. They haven't produced a Contador, but then again nobody has. I'd say France can't hold a candle up to these standards and not since the days of Hinault. I don't think it's doping so much as genetic luck.

 

[ruamruam]

Spanish Riders winning the Tour pre-EPO: 3 (Bahamontes, Delgado, Ocana)

Spanish Riders winning the Tour post-EPO: 4 (Indurain, Pereiro, Sastre, Contador)

Spanish riders are more likely to target the tour today than they were years ago. Fifty years ago I would bet that for a Spanish rider to win the Vuelta was as important as winning the Tour de France.

Likewise with the classics, up until recently Spanish riders rarely won the spring classics as they weren't seen as that important in Spanish cycling culture but with the proliferation of mass media, especially television they became important for Spanish riders and since then Spanish riders have been winning their fair share of them.

I have no doubt that doping has played it part too but it's only part of the story

 

[Cogombre]

I think spain has more domination in soccer then in cycling. (only since a year)
Yes Brazil, do they have clubs like Real Madrid and Barca?
Btw, do the english have any motogp riders in the highest class, LIKE lorenzo and pedrosa? ( only toseland )

To compare the strength of a country in football in terms of teams is just unfair. Brazilian teams lack the money that the spanish (european in general) clubs have. By that standards Russia would be the strongest nation in Europe in basketball, as CSKA has been the best team of the last years, but they clearly aren't.

Nope, they british haven't such talented riders. But do we have such big talents in rugby like they have?

The level of the spanish sports is more or less normal in all sports, except in cycling. To have the best three riders, according to the UCI ranking, of the season is just insane.

 

[ruamruam]

The level of the spanish sports is more or less normal in all sports, except in cycling. To have the best three riders, according to the UCI ranking, of the season is just insane.

It could quite possibly be a fluke of nature that Spain have the three highest ranking riders.

At one stage in the 1980s Ireland had the two top ranked cyclists in the world, Roche and Kelly, this from a country of less that five million people where cycling was a tiny sport.

Having said that I personally think that the ranking system discriminates against sprinters.

 

[Ferminal]

To compare the strength of a country in football in terms of teams is just unfair. Brazilian teams lack the money that the spanish (european in general) clubs have. By that standards Russia would be the strongest nation in Europe in basketball, as CSKA has been the best team of the last years, but they clearly aren't.

Nope, they british haven't such talented riders. But do we have such big talents in rugby like they have?

The level of the spanish sports is more or less normal in all sports, except in cycling. To have the best three riders, according to the UCI ranking, of the season is just insane.

I agree, Spain are a very good sporting nation and in cycling they are by far the best.

But they're not similarly dominant in other sports, Real/Barca are just as good as any one of the dozen big EU clubs one year to the next, the national team finally won something which was great, but we will see what happens next year.

 

[Escarabajo]

# 1 reason is climate. They have >20º days than anyone in Europe. Their climbs are amongst the hardest in th world (and open 7-8 months per year). Their level of competition in the amateur and profesional ranks is high. And... why deny it? Their government's attitude towards doping is "you're on your own bud".

Colombia should be first based on this numbers. go figure.
I can assure you that there are more cyclists flooding the streets of Colombia on a daily basis than in Spain. Not to say about the weekends which are in the millions for a Country of ~45 million or so.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Are Portugal and Greece in Africa now?

No, they are not. I don't see why you are asking me this. Are you trying to tell me Portugal and Greece have more > 20º days than Spain? Perhaps, but you won't see as many people going up climbs in Greece or Portugal as you will see in Spain. By this I do not want to insinuate they are "superior" to anyone, let me be very clear, they are not. I think it's a combination of many things, like I said, weather, climbs, competitive level and desire.

You can climb the Angliru 9 months out of the year. You can climb beyond 3,000 meter mark in southern Spain 10 months out of the year if you want to. You can't say the same thing about northern Europe, where, for example, the Alpe D'huez is "virtually" closed 4-5 months out the year (November to March). Forget about the Alps (even on the Italian side) and England, where winters are harsh.

It's one thing when you wake up in the morning and it's 17º out and sunny... compare it to England's 8º and rain... you kinda get the point.

That is the reason most teams do their preseasons in warmer climates (Spain, southern Italy, Greece, Portugal, et cetera). Well, that and "Da Sauce", but that is a entirely different subject.

 

[Señor_Contador]

That is also one of the reasons you will not see many downhill skiers coming from the Iberian peninsula.