why spain produces so many talents?

[Señor_Contador]

[...]I can assure you that there are more cyclists flooding the streets of Colombia on a daily basis than in Spain.[...]

Sure, there may be more or less, I'm not debating that, I am only saying that that particular factor is only part of the equation.

 

[issoisso]

No, they are not. I don't see why you are asking me this. Are you trying to tell me Portugal and Greece have more > 20º days than Spain? Perhaps, but you won't see as many people going up climbs in Greece or Portugal as you will see in Spain. By this I do not want to insinuate they are "superior" to anyone, let me be very clear, they are not. I think it's a combination of many things, like I said, weather, climbs, competitive level and desire.

You can climb the Angliru 9 months out of the year. You can climb beyond 3,000 meter mark in southern Spain 10 months out of the year if you want to. You can't say the same thing about northern Europe, where, for example, the Alpe D'huez is "virtually" closed 4-5 months out the year (November to March). Forget about the Alps (even on the Italian side) and England, where winters are harsh.

It's one thing when you wake up in the morning and it's 17º out and sunny... compare it to England's 8º and rain... you kinda get the point.

That is the reason most teams do their preseasons in warmer climates (Spain, southern Italy, Greece, Portugal, et cetera). Well, that and "Da Sauce", but that is a entirely different subject.

That's all true......and it's a Chewbacca defense. Responding to a different argument than the one raised

 

[poupou]

No, they are not. I don't see why you are asking me this. Are you trying to tell me Portugal and Greece have more > 20º days than Spain? Perhaps, but you won't see as many people going up climbs in Greece or Portugal as you will see in Spain. By this I do not want to insinuate they are "superior" to anyone, let me be very clear, they are not. I think it's a combination of many things, like I said, weather, climbs, competitive level and desire.

Do you believe that such weather conditions are just recent, due to global warming, explaining why they were not so dominant before doping facilities in Spain?

Do you believe you cannot train in winter on cols of Cote-d'Azur or Corsica or South and North Italia?
But, is it important to train on col on winter period?

 

[Señor_Contador]

That's all true......and it's a Chewbacca defense. Responding to a different argument than the one raised

Dude, dude, dude, let's get a few things straight here (write it down if you need to): You are the one who took the argument in a different direction, not me. You are the one who brought Greece and Portugal into the argument, not me. What I said, as a whole, NOT TAKING IT OUT OF CONTEXT, is something that falls neatly into place with the main argument, which is why Spain produces so many talents.

Aside from that, and to slam the book shut here, I find it hard to believe that any other country in Europe has a drier and warmer place than Almería, which is where Calar Alto an other great climbs are.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Do you believe that such weather conditions are just recent, due to global warming, explaining why they were not so dominant before doping facilities in Spain?

You can blame it all on doping, but in doing so you'd be beating a dead horse. All the best cyclists from all countries dope.

Do you believe you cannot train in winter on cols of Cote-d'Azur or Corsica or South and North Italia? But, is it important to train on col on winter period?

Can you train in cols in northern Italy and the Cote-d'Azur during the winter? Nope.

Next.

 

[Cogombre]

You can blame it all on doping, but in doing so you'd be beating a dead horse. All the best cyclists from all countries dope.

That's that argument of "but they are as doped as me" which has been used so many times. That's a false assumption. Not that they're doped, but that they're as doped as you. Some of them, but not all.

And no country gives the same protection Spain gives to their dopers. It isn't all doping sure. But it is a major factor.

Can you train in cols in northern Italy and the Cote-d'Azur during the winter? Nope.

Next.

There are good climbs in the Southern US and Colombia too. And it's not like we have the best climbers in the world, that's only true for Contador (who is also an impressive TTer, don't know if that has also a relation with the Spanish mountains). Valverde and Sanchez are more puncheurs than climbers. There are hills open to training in winter in almost the whole Europe.

That argument simply fails.

 

[poupou]

Can you train in cols in northern Italy and the Cote-d'Azur during the winter? Nope.
Next.

Sorry but you are false. If temperatur are colder, most of the time cols exposed south have no snow , or just at the top like Ventoux.

 

[gatete]

peloton effect

As I read the previous posts something came to mind regarding the topic of why Spain dominates, a lot of the arguments previously expressed make sense, that being said it occured to me that if you're trying to go solo in a breakaway or two or even five, the peloton has a much greater chance of prevailing well it's common sense: bigger energy being produce at a much larger scale, Spain is like that big peloton right now, therefore has a much greater chance of succeeding, until a new peloton forms and then... all bets are off.

 

[Señor_Contador]

That's that argument of "but they are as doped as me" which has been used so many times. That's a false assumption. Not that they're doped, but that they're as doped as you. Some of them, but not all.

And that's a false assumption because... What? You know who dopes and who doesn't? You have to use the "I do not agree" more often. Just because you do not agree it does not mean it is a "false assumption". We're both speculating here.

And no country gives the same protection Spain gives to their dopers. It isn't all doping sure. But it is a major factor.

And that is precisely what I am saying. Yet you seem unable to see that. We may disagree as to how much of a factor it is, but we agree on the most essential point. Some of yous have this saucy attraction for disagreeing for the heck of it that is kinda childish.

When it comes to doping, the only difference between Spain and many other contries around the world is that in the case of Spain dopers are not treated like criminals, like witches at a witchhunt. Are the Spanish authorities more permissive than other countries around the world, even turning a blind eye when it's one of their own involved in a possitive? Yes, maybe so, but I do not believe they "protect" dopers per se.

You make it sound like you can just walk into a pharmacy in downtown Madrid and get Deca vials or GH by the bucketfull and that children are given testosterone injections when they enter kindergarden. I mean, come on dude!

There are good climbs in the Southern US and Colombia too.

Sure, but I was talking about Europe, not the US or South America.

And it's not like we have the best climbers in the world, that's only true for Contador (who is also an impressive TTer, don't know if that has also a relation with the Spanish mountains). Valverde and Sanchez are more puncheurs than climbers.

But I am not saying that, YOU are. Don't confuse what I'm saying with what YOU are saying or presume I am saying, which is different. What I am saying is that have easy access to difficult climbs almost yearound is a big factor, albeit not the only one, in creating a good climber.

There are hills open to training in winter in almost the whole Europe.

What?! Have you seen the Stelvio in the middle of winter?

Have you seen the Alpe D'Huez in winter?

Have you seen the Gavia in the middle of spring for peace sake?!

Have you seen the Col du Galibier in May?

 

[Señor_Contador]

Sorry but you are false. If temperatur are colder, most of the time cols exposed south have no snow , or just at the top like Ventoux.

Sure, if you want to go up Mont Ventoux at -15º in the middle of winter, even though there isn't a trace of snow on the ground... go ahead.

That's what I call a smart thing to do.

 

[Race Radio]

No, they are not. I don't see why you are asking me this. Are you trying to tell me Portugal and Greece have more > 20º days than Spain? Perhaps, but you won't see as many people going up climbs in Greece or Portugal as you will see in Spain. By this I do not want to insinuate they are "superior" to anyone, let me be very clear, they are not. I think it's a combination of many things, like I said, weather, climbs, competitive level and desire.

You can climb the Angliru 9 months out of the year. You can climb beyond 3,000 meter mark in southern Spain 10 months out of the year if you want to. You can't say the same thing about northern Europe, where, for example, the Alpe D'huez is "virtually" closed 4-5 months out the year (November to March). Forget about the Alps (even on the Italian side) and England, where winters are harsh.

It's one thing when you wake up in the morning and it's 17º out and sunny... compare it to England's 8º and rain... you kinda get the point.

That is the reason most teams do their preseasons in warmer climates (Spain, southern Italy, Greece, Portugal, et cetera). Well, that and "Da Sauce", but that is a entirely different subject.

Are you really saying that the reason why Spain has so many good athletes is because they have sunshine and climbs that are open in the winter?

 

[Señor_Contador]

Are you really saying that the reason why Spain has so many good athletes is because they have sunshine and climbs that are open in the winter?

No, I am saying that weather and climbs are part of the equation (doping included).

 

[Race Radio]

No, I am saying that weather and climbs are part of the equation (doping included).

I guess that is why Belgium and Holland never produced great riders.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Imagine living in England, where they get rain often and the temperatures are not that cold but are low enough to prevent you from even leaving the house (much less take a ride on the bike), and not having any really big climbs around you? Imagine having to live in another country to train?

That's why, in my opinion, Wiggins' performance this year was a highlight, because he's doing a lot more with what he has than Contador, who was born and lives at the base of a rather large mountainous area (the sierras around Madrid).

 

[Señor_Contador]

I guess that is why Belgium and Holland never produced great riders.

Note: YOU are the one saying that, not me.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Frankly, I thing Belgium and Holland have an even better cycling tradition than Spain. Forget about Merckx, he was a freak of nature, a Michael Jordan. Noone is going to be able to even come close to what he did.

 

[Race Radio]

Frankly, I thing Belgium and Holland have an even better cycling tradition than Spain. Forget about Merckx, he was a freak of nature, a Michael Jordan. Noone is going to be able to even come close to what he did.

Amazing how they did that with no climbs and crap weather

 

[Señor_Contador]

Amazing how they did that with no climbs and crap weather

I know. And don't forget they did not dope, their bicycles had no brakes and the back wheels were square.

Frigging amazing dude!

 

[Señor_Contador]

Gavia:

 

[skidmark]

That's why, in my opinion, Wiggins' performance this year was a highlight, because he's doing a lot more with what he has than Contador, who was born and lives at the base of a rather large mountainous area (the sierras around Madrid).

Wiggins lives and trains, at least during the season, with the rest of Garmin, in Girona, Spain. So it's not a totally different story.

 

[Race Radio]

Gavia:

You can post all the snow pictures you like. I do not know one Pro who rides big climbs in the off season.

If you think that sunny weather is why Spain has so many good riders you really do not understand the sport.

 

[pedaling squares]

You can post all the snow pictures you like. I do not know one Pro who rides big climbs in the off season.

If you think that sunny weather is why Spain has so many good riders you really do not understand the sport.

If it was all about warm weather and a mountain just think how many pros would come from Maui.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Wiggins lives and trains, at least during the season, with the rest of Garmin, in Girona, Spain. So it's not a totally different story.

Yes, he NOW lives and trains in Girona, but AC was born and lives right next to some mean climbs.

 

[Señor_Contador]

You can post all the snow pictures you like. I do not know one Pro who rides big climbs in the off season.

AC. Navacerrada climb. The entire Astana/Discovery/US Postal team in Tenerife climbing the Teide. Et cetera.

If you think that sunny weather is why Spain has so many good riders you really do not understand the sport.

I didn't. I said weather is PART of the equation, but not the reason per se.

 

[Race Radio]

I didn't. I said weather is PART of the equation, but not the reason per se.

The vast majority of the Pro Peloton comes from areas that have few climbs and crap weather. The vast majority of the sports greatest riders the same.

It has nothing to do with the equation.