Why Tenerife?

[42x16ss]

The question is more, are there any professional cyclists training there?

Old geezers experimenting with viagra and triathletes doping, isn't really that exciting to me.

I've edited my post since then

 

[ToreBear]

I've edited my post since then

So do you think they are doping since it's so remote?

Personally I don't think it's remote as long as the samples get to the lab within the allowed time.

They could still be doping though, and how much they are tested would probably also depend on the resources Australian Antidoping are given to conduct tests.

 

[42x16ss]

So do you think they are doping since it's so remote?

Personally I don't think it's remote as long as the samples get to the lab within the allowed time.

They could still be doping though, and how much they are tested would probably also depend on the resources Australian Antidoping are given to conduct tests.

Good point, probably not - I'd say that if they are, it's because they need to as it's part and parcel for racing at that level. Not sure how often testing is carried out here, should be able to find out though.

 

[ToreBear]

Good point, probably not - I'd say that if they are, it's because they need to as it's part and parcel for racing at that level. Not sure how often testing is carried out here, should be able to find out though.

If they are doping to compete at that level, It could be that they don't have enough talent and are making up for it with doping, so they can be competitive against the talented athletes.

Just saying there can be many equally plausible explanations for a single phenomena.

 

[Benotti69]

If they are doping to compete at that level, It could be that they don't have enough talent and are making up for it with doping, so they can be competitive against the talented athletes.

Just saying there can be many equally plausible explanations for a single phenomena.

That crap has been spouted over the years and dismissed by all the whistleblowers from the pro peloton.

Doping was shown to be widespread amongst all in the epo era and prior to that. The few exceptions who refused to dope are well known. The rest doped. That was the culture then and i have not seen anything that changed that culture.

If doping was only done by a minority then the majority who ride clean would speak out about the few. But sadly it is the other way around.

 

[ToreBear]

That crap has been spouted over the years and dismissed by all the whistleblowers from the pro peloton.

Doping was shown to be widespread amongst all in the epo era and prior to that. The few exceptions who refused to dope are well known. The rest doped. That was the culture then and i have not seen anything that changed that culture.

If doping was only done by a minority then the majority who ride clean would speak out about the few. But sadly it is the other way around.

All the doped whistle blowers you mean. Could be those who were clean did'nt want to say anything because they did'nt think anyone would believe them.

There are many possibilities.

 

[DirtyWorks]

If they are doping to compete at that level, It could be that they don't have enough talent and are making up for it with doping, so they can be competitive against the talented athletes.

Just saying there can be many equally plausible explanations for a single phenomena.

There are public statements from dopers that support this. Apparently, some rise to the ranks of elite on "pan y agua" then want to get to the next level discovering doping IS the next level and accept it as just another sacrifice.

I read this the other day on Cameron Wurf's blog:
I will go to one of the most special training grounds I know off in tenerife and can't wait but first will be a few days rest.

THIS JUST IN: an entire post on Tenerife. http://cameronwurf.blogspot.com/2014/04/cyclings-alcatraz.html Sounds great!

It's a great blog to follow. Please don't scare the poor guy away from posting.

 

[Benotti69]

All the doped whistle blowers you mean.

You gonna use the Armstorng 'credibility' argument here. Dont, you'll fail.

Could be those who were clean did'nt want to say anything because they did'nt think anyone would believe them.

Didn't stop Bassons or LeMond.

There are many possibilities.

There are 2 possibilities, dope or clean. There is no grey area.

 

[ToreBear]

You gonna use the Armstorng 'credibility' argument here. Dont, you'll fail.

If I were going to dope, I would convince myself that it's not cheating since everyone else is doing it as well. I would maintain this fantasy for years, and would resist any information indicating that I was wrong, because I'm not a cheater.

The potential realization that I in fact was a cheater, and admitting it to my self would be very painfull.

Have you ever heard children when they are confronted with rule breaking? They start with explanations as to why they did something wrong. The first thing that comes out tends to be, they did it too. Same phenomena.

Of course you have outliers that don't care about retaining their self percieved integrity. They are just that, outliers.

As for what Armstrong said, the only thing he didn't say is I'm doping. Would you believe someone is clean then if they say "I'm doping", since Armstrong never said it?

Didn't stop Bassons or LeMond.

How do you know? There is a member on this forum who knows guys who just quit and went home.

Could it be that Bassons and Lemond were willing to stick their neck out while others weren't?

There are 2 possibilities, dope or clean. There is no grey area.

I don't see were in my statement I have written that I disagree with your statement. I don't disagree. Could it be that you have misunderstood what I'm saying?

 

[Benotti69]

If I were going to dope, I would convince myself that it's not cheating since everyone else is doing it as well. I would maintain this fantasy for years, and would resist any information indicating that I was wrong, because I'm not a cheater.

It is very hard to convince your self sticking a needle in to your body and injecting PEDs is not cheating. I doubt anyone believes that. They may tell themselves they are not doing anything other athletes are not doing and are only leveling the playing field, but they would know of athletes banned for doping so how do they get to a level of not cheating is not plausible.

The potential realization that I in fact was a cheater, and admitting it to my self would be very painfull.

I dont think so. When you are immersed in a culture that accepts doping, no pain.

Have you ever heard children when they are confronted with rule breaking? They start with explanations as to why they did something wrong. The first thing that comes out tends to be, they did it too. Same phenomena.

We are discussing adults, not bright adults i grant you, but adults. Most adults dont have a problem with rule breaking on some level, whether a red traffic light, littering etc

Of course you have outliers that don't care about retaining their self percieved integrity. They are just that, outliers.

Most athletes admit they will do what it takes to reach their goals. This is not utlier. Just look at the sport and those in it in positions of power and how they have never had a problem with doping or enabling doping and you will see the culture of doping is integral to the sport.

As for what Armstrong said, the only thing he didn't say is I'm doping. Would you believe someone is clean then if they say "I'm doping", since Armstrong never said it?

Stupid argument.

How do you know? There is a member on this forum who knows guys who just quit and went home.

Scott Mercier and Graham Obree are 2 I know that quit rather than dope

Could it be that Bassons and Lemond were willing to stick their neck out while others weren't?

These are the 2 clean riders who stuck their necks out. Plenty of dopers stuck their necks out.

I don't see were in my statement I have written that I disagree with your statement. I don't disagree. Could it be that you have misunderstood what I'm saying?

You said many possibilities. Many is more than 2.

 

[sideshadow]

Why Altitude Camps?

Sorry if this has been posted before. The paper has been mentioned but I don't know if this was ever discussed:

'' In the absence of mountains and in an attempt to limit blood doping, some countries have built nitrogen houses where it is possible to expose athletes to hypoxia and hence stimulate altitude exposure. Such facilities are used with the intent to increase endogenous Epo production, and thereby stimulate the synthesis of red blood cell mass and thus exercise performance. The concept of Live High (i.e. living at altitude) – Train Low (LHTL) (i.e. training at sea level) was introduced by Levine and Stray-Gundersen in the early 1990s, and demonstrated feasible a few years later (Levine and Stray-Gundersen, 1997).

It should be noted, however, that the performance gains following LHTL are limited to around 1% (Bonetti and Hopkins, 2009), which may of course be relevant for elite performance, but which is still miles away from the performance gains observed following, for example, rhEpo injections (Thomsen et al., 2007). Furthermore, the to date only placebo-controlled and double-blinded LHTL study using nitrogen houses demonstrated no performance gains following 4 weeks of LHTL (16 h per day at 3000 m) (Siebenmann et al., 2011). Thus, altitude training cannot be ‘offered’ as an alternative to blood doping to athletes.

Of greater concern, however, is that altitude exposure seems misused by some athletes as a masking procedure since sports federations such as the International Cycling Union (ICU) exclude the analytical results of blood samples obtained for the Athlete Biological Passport (ABP) (see later) in conjugation to altitude exposure, and, hence, it cannot be ruled that some athletes may go to altitude with the specific aim to dope knowing that potential blood samples will not be used. ''

So if I'm reading this right then samples collected while these athletes are at altitude and presumably, at least a while, once they return from altitude can't be used for the ABP. Which explains the frequent and extended Tenerife camps?

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/enhanced/doi/10.1111/j.1476-5381.2011.01822.x/#Survey

 

[sniper]

Apparently Riis convinced Contador of hiring De Jongh.
De Jongh, miracle coach, has been taking Dertie to Tenerife.

Foi Bjarne Riis, diretor da Tinkoff-Saxo e também “ficha suja” no quesito doping, quem convenceu Contador a contratar De Jongh. O holandês teria mostrado a Contador os benefícios dos treinos em altitude e o levou para o Monte Teide, em Tenerife. Enquanto a maioria da equipe Tinkoff-Saxo permanecia ao nível do mar, nas Ilhas Canárias, Contador passou sua pré-temporada acumulando quilômetros nas alturas, sempre sob o acompanhamento de De Jongh.

http://www.bikemagazine.com.br/2014/04/novo-treinador-de-contador-e-ficha-suja-e-ex-sky/

 

[martinvickers]

Apparently Riis convinced Contador of hiring De Jongh.
De Jongh, miracle coach, has been taking Dertie to Tenerife.

http://www.bikemagazine.com.br/2014/04/novo-treinador-de-contador-e-ficha-suja-e-ex-sky/

Indeed. I've been banging on about this.

Could you crowdsource funding for a P.I. to trail De Jongh?

 

[the sceptic]

Apparently Riis convinced Contador of hiring De Jongh.
De Jongh, miracle coach, has been taking Dertie to Tenerife.

http://www.bikemagazine.com.br/2014/04/novo-treinador-de-contador-e-ficha-suja-e-ex-sky/

Funny that sky will get beaten by their own methods this year.

 

[Benotti69]

Funny that sky will get beaten by their own methods this year.

Or will their competitors test positive as Cookson gets a nice brand spanking new Jaguar car and other tokens of gratitude from TeamMurdoch

 

[pmcg76]

Serious questione here, but why have a few Saxo Bank riders been training at altitude at Mt Etna in Italy the last few weeks if Tenerife is the place to be for doping purposes?

 

[sniper]

Walsh in ITS wrt Sky's eight training camps on Tenerife:

Only once in those eight times has a random drug-testing team made the journey to see them and test them. 'Now that', says Tim Kerrison, 'is truly disappointing'...

riiight.

btw, "random drug testing team", that's unusual terminology. I think Walsh doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

 

[sniper]

Serious questione here, but why have a few Saxo Bank riders been training at altitude at Mt Etna in Italy the last few weeks if Tenerife is the place to be for doping purposes?

for us a question, for saxo a knowing.

 

[red_flanders]

Serious questione here, but why have a few Saxo Bank riders been training at altitude at Mt Etna in Italy the last few weeks if Tenerife is the place to be for doping purposes?

Training on Etna means you're cleans.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Training on Etna means you're cleans.

Indeed, as long as the air contains that precious little amount of volcanic ash which we all know have long term healing effects.....

Ulissi also opted for Etna, lets see if that helps in the Ardennes week.

 

[Justinr]

Or will their competitors test positive as Cookson gets a nice brand spanking new Jaguar car and other tokens of gratitude from TeamMurdoch

Its funny but i do wonder how you manage to get through a normal day without either seeing or imagining corruption and conspiracy theories everywhere you look/read/think ...

 

[Justinr]

Walsh in ITS wrt Sky's eight training camps on Tenerife:
riiight.

btw, "random drug testing team", that's unusual terminology. I think Walsh doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

Why is that unusual terminology?

 

[sniper]

Why is that unusual terminology?

i'm nitpicking, sure, but sky will never be ooc tested by a "random" drug testing team.

 

[Benotti69]

Its funny but i do wonder how you manage to get through a normal day without either seeing or imagining corruption and conspiracy theories everywhere you look/read/think ...

Hein could make riders test positive, and it is alleged Armstrong had competitors test positive, Heras, Beloki, Hamilton..and then we had McQuaid trying hide Contadors clen positive. No imagination required!

 

[buckle]

Blood condition

I have a blood condition and customs are use to old f@rts like me bringing in drugs. In some hotels, a feature is the weekly visit by a doctor! There are foreign doctors all over the place to cater for Europe's impending demographic crisis. The Canaries are a perfect base for a doping program.