Wigans goes there. Cadence!

[rata de sentina]

What?
Possibly the most bafflingly wrong post I've seen here in weeks.

Obviously you're not familiar with the field.

 

[Cavalier]

No, I am, given it's what I'm about go and study. More relevant is your horrid post asserting that the field of study somehow isn't actually one.

 

[acoggan]

And now he's between 6.8 and 7.0 w/kg.

Ouch

How do you arrive at that figure? Even if his absolute power hasn't been compromised by his (claimed) further weight loss, dividing his highest publically reported sustainable (i.e., 456 W at last year's Worlds) by 69 kg gives you 6.6 W/kg.

 

[the big ring]

How do you arrive at that figure? Even if his absolute power hasn't been compromised by his (claimed) further weight loss, dividing his highest publically reported sustainable (i.e., 456 W at last year's Worlds) by 69 kg gives you 6.6 W/kg.

*459W
*6.65 W/kg

Generous rounding down there eh?

 

[acoggan]

*459W
*6.65 W/kg

Generous rounding down there eh?

The earlier post gives 459 W; the most recent article in The Guardian quotes Wiggins as saying he averaged 456 W.

Either way, 6.6X W/kg ain't between 6.8 and 7.0.

 

[wannab]

Still gotta catch up with readings/data BUT ...

6.6X W/kg that's really highhhhhhh

makes me wonder what he was crying about in 2007, these are armstrong like figures

 

[Ripper]

The earlier post gives 459 W; the most recent article in The Guardian quotes Wiggins as saying he averaged 456 W.

Either way, 6.6X W/kg ain't between 6.8 and 7.0.

I think the poster borrowed the absolute wattage from 131313 (490w). That's the only way I can see it going up to 7w/kg.

Depending on weight (69 or 70) and wattage (456 or 459), the range seems to be 6.51-6.65w/kg. Still bumping on the ceiling of interesting.

 

[acoggan]

Depending on weight

FWIW, I'd say that that is a bigger unknown than his absolute power output.

 

[acoggan]

I think the poster borrowed the absolute wattage from 131313 (490w).

As should be clear, I think that 131313's guesstimates are unreliable.

Depending on weight

FWIW, I'd say that that is a bigger unknown than his absolute power output.

 

[131313]

As should be clear, I think that 131313's guesstimates are unreliable.



FWIW, I'd say that that is a bigger unknown than his absolute power output.

I'm not sure it's entirely clear at all. That's his highest published power output, from a time when his race results where nowhere close to where there are now, both in timed events and on climbs. I don't think it's reasonable to infer that significant increase in performance didn't come with a significant increase in power output. Sure, I'm willing to believe there were some "marginal gains" which reduced the demand side, but not enough to explain the dramatic increase in results.

If one has another explanation, I'm all ears.

 

[acoggan]

That's his highest published power output, from a time when his race results where nowhere close to where there are now, both in timed events and on climbs.

Silver at Worlds (ahead of Cancellera, who unlike this year was not recovering from a broken collarbone) is "nowhere close" to how he is performing now?? (Don't forget that last year's World ITT champion, Tony Martin, also crashed out of this year's TdF, and clearly isn't at the same level as he was in 2011.)

In any case, let's just say that data don't support your supposition that Wiggins' power has increased significantly.

 

[Boeing]

http://m.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/...ins-olympic-time-trial?cat=sport&type=article

"If I'm unbeaten in long time trials this year, that's because we've put a lot of thought into it. We worked a lot on cadence this winter."

Brainsford selling.. McQuaid buying

"philosophy of pursuing marginal gains"..."works against doping"... Really Pat, care to elaborate on this dogmatic statement

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/marginal-gains-bear-fruit-for-great-britain-in-olympics

Like cookin and sellin Yale dont matter how we get there as long as we get there

 

[131313]

Silver at Worlds (ahead of Cancellera, who unlike this year was not recovering from a broken collarbone) is "nowhere close" to how he is performing now?? (Don't forget that last year's World ITT champion, Tony Martin, also crashed out of this year's TdF, and clearly isn't at the same level as he was in 2011.)

In any case, let's just say that data don't support your supposition that Wiggins' power has increased significantly.

I don't think you can get too hung up on a comparison of a single rider (Martin or Cancellara). My position is based on the looking at results as compared to a bunch of the other riders. He's roughly a minute faster than 2011 (which is what the 490 is based on), and a minute more over 2009/2010. His result in the Vuelta TT's and Worlds vs. this year seem to support that.

I will say there's no documented data to support this position. Call me a conspiracy nut, but I don't believe the team would be eager to produce data which documented a rider doing close to 7 w/kg, so if his power did indeed increase to that level, I don't think we'd know about it.

 

[acoggan]

I don't think we'd know about it.

Speak for yourself.

 

[mastersracer]

Speak for yourself.

exactly - he would have strolled away from everyone on every climb this year if he were producing that kind of power.

 

[131313]

Speak for yourself.

Define "know". And here's where you'll start to think about me being a conspiracy nut, but let's look at this objectively. Dr. Andrew Coggan is well-known in geeky power circles and is generally well-respected, at least as it relates to all matters power-related. Are we going to provide him with a power file which details a power output significantly higher than anything ever documented before? Is it possible that the file is intentionally under-reporting the actual power produced? Is there some benefit to providing him with a file which under-reports the power output? I can see the answer being "possibly, yes". That's why I think doing some calculations to back-check the data has some validity. And yes, I fully understand the limitations of doing so.

I know you know this, but for anyone following along at home changing the power output on an SRM isn't particularly difficult and is undetectable unless you get your hands on the SRM and check the calibration yourself.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

exactly - he would have strolled away from everyone on every climb this year if he were producing that kind of power.

Well, what happened on the last climb of the Tour?

Wiggo on the gas, everybody but Froomey had to let him go? Or did we not see that happening.

 

[mastersracer]

Well, what happened on the last climb of the Tour?

Wiggo on the gas, everybody but Froomey had to let him go? Or did we not see that happening.

Check the results - Pinot, Rolland, Van Den Broeck finished within a few seconds. Nabali lost a grand total of less than 20 seconds to Wiggins on the climbs this year (by his own admission only after a calf injury) - his power files are available and show no superhuman outputs. Nothing close.

 

[acoggan]

Define "know". And here's where you'll start to think about me being a conspiracy nut, but let's look at this objectively. Dr. Andrew Coggan is well-known in geeky power circles and is generally well-respected, at least as it relates to all matters power-related. Are we going to provide him with a power file which details a power output significantly higher than anything ever documented before? Is it possible that the file is intentionally under-reporting the actual power produced? Is there some benefit to providing him with a file which under-reports the power output? I can see the answer being "possibly, yes".

Now where did I ever say that anyone provided me with any power files?

That's why I think doing some calculations to back-check the data has some validity. And yes, I fully understand the limitations of doing so.

With all due respect, I'm not convinced that you do. Specifically, you're basing your guesses on data from flat TTs, when even estimates based on climbs (where wind and aero drag characteristics have much less of an effect) are no better than +/- 5%. I don't believe that the latter are sufficiently precise to draw any worthwhile conclusions; I therefore obviously don't consider the former to be any better (much less even equal).

 

[131313]

With all due respect, I'm not convinced that you do. Specifically, you're basing your guesses on data from flat TTs, when even estimates based on climbs (where wind and aero drag characteristics have much less of an effect) are no better than +/- 5%. I don't believe that the latter are sufficiently precise to draw any worthwhile conclusions; I therefore obviously don't consider the former to be any better (much less even equal).

No, really, I do. But here's also what I do know: he's going significantly faster relative to the competition than he was in 09/10. His results clearly demonstrate that fact. So again, we're left with the possibilities that he's putting out more power, his energy demands have decreased or everyone else is going slower. I ran some numbers as a reality check, not as any sort of "proof". I'm not suggesting we put him in jail based on this, suspend him or change your chart. I realize that some will now say "Brad Wiggins is now putting out 7 w/kg!", so let me say that's not my intent. I should have included some error bars on there.

My position is simply this: it appears that he's putting out significantly more raw power now versus the 09/10 seasons.

 

[acoggan]

My position is simply this: it appears that he's putting out significantly more raw power now versus the 09/10 seasons.

Not from where I sit...and on that point I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Franklin]

And we all gloss over Ferrari's statements?

 

[mastersracer]

And we all gloss over Ferrari's statements?

what ones are you referring to? The comments about maintaining 420-440 watts on a 16 minute climb at the end 'of a not too difficult stage'?

 

[Franklin]

The Sky riders are pedaling uphill with very high cadences of pedaling (often over 100 RPM), which seem quite excessive in relation to the power outputs, around 420-440W: either these athletes are riding below their limit, or the asymmetrical chainrings used by most of them require higher cadences in order to get the best out of them.

A hypothesis that indeed they have higher wattage. And a hypothesis that they haven't.

Just saying that the first hypothesis fits in with the higher estimates here.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

434 watts (and 6.1 w/kg) for 40 minutes plus in 2009 according to JV.

456 watts for 55 minutes @ the 2011 Worlds according to the man himself.

5 percent more power from age 29-31.

Is he stronger this year or is everyone else slower?

Did he really lose 3 kg since leaving Garmin?