Wigans goes there. Cadence!

[Wallace and Gromit]

Are you asking this non-personal, non-baiting, on-topic question as a moderator setting an example, or as a normal poster?

I'd have thought it was pretty obviously a joke, but sorry if you took it the wrong way.

For anyone who could post "Certainty trumps doubt, certainly. Of that I have no doubt" then I'd have thought that being likened to Sir Humphrey would be considered flattering!

 

[JimmyFingers]

But to be fair, this particular flurry of discussion started when you yourself quoted LeMond saying that talented champions appear at 19-20, and don't appear out of nowhere at age 29. Since you posted in the Wiggins thread, it's kind of implying that he did appear out of nowhere at age 29, to which it was pointed out his first notable athletic achievement of note being winning a senior Olympic medal at the age of 20 (and implicitly meeting LeMond's criteria down to a tee).

Now, since you're not dismissing his track results or the level of talent needed for them, or that they started at the age of 20, it looks like you're probably agreeing that the LeMond doesn't quote doesn't hold in the light of Wiggins career. If this is the case, it rather begs the question in this specific case: who exactly here is trolling?

This. Hitch I think you have to stop attacking opinions different to your own as trolling. DW for one has explicitely stated in the past that the talent in track is very shallow compared to the road, and examinations here of Wiggins' palmares pre-2009 have pointedly ignored his performance on the track.

By your logic wiggos opponents in the 2012 tour (and all tours since 2005) should have been Chris hoy, Fabian cancellara, mark Cavendish, Sven Nys, etc.

And this is a strawman: I employed no logic, made no case for track success equalling road success, just that Wiggins has been a successful cyclist since an early age, rather than a nobody that suddenly came good at 29.

 

[ciranda]

Rightly so. Doping or otherwise, Wiggo's versatility is very impressive. If winning IP golds is "easy" due to the narrow pool of talent then I'm sure the roadies would have gone for this easy route to Olympic gold rather than taking their chances in the lottery of the road race whilst the IP was on the Olympic programme.

Ie professional athletes who get paid by teams to race road races. The only countries who have sports federations that pay track cyclists to prepare for entire years to go to the olympics are United Kingdom and Australia so these countries have dominated rack disciplines tfor years and years.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Ie professional athletes who get paid by teams to race road races. The only countries who have sports federations that pay track cyclists to prepare for entire years to go to the olympics are United Kingdom and Australia so these countries have dominated rack disciplines tfor years and years.

Agreed. But one would think that the top prologue riders would be able to turn out a decent IP, and be competitive on the track if the talent levels on the track really are "low".

TP would be a different matter, given the greater technical and speed requirements.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

But one would think that the top prologue riders would be able to turn out a decent IP, and be competitive on the track if the talent levels on the track really are "low".

And they might, but for what?

Someone explains the national feds won't / don't pay the rider, and you say, "but ...".

You don't win anything apart from a gold medal at best, and need to be peaking for events in Feb-March (world champs) when most riders are doing base or their first road races. Olympics are once every 4 years - compared to Paris Roubaix or something you could ride 4 times in that same period and luck out in winning something worth winning. Why the heck would you race a track event that netts you no income and takes up valuable WT points opportunities.

Winning any stage in an early season WT road race is worth >>> a gold medal at the same distance on the track for pro roadies.

 

[Benotti69]

I suspected he might one day win the Tour when he distanced Lance Armstrong on the Verbier climb. He did show GT winning ability before 2012!

In 2009, aged 29, 10 years after those with 'natural' GT ability show it.

 

[BYOP88]

In 2009, aged 29, 10 years after those with 'natural' GT ability show it.

Well he did spend 8 years down the pub and 2 years learning to play guitar/grow sideburns/mod haircut.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

And they might, but for what?

Winning an Olympic gold medal would be the only reason to race the IP at the Olympics.

I'm not talking about racing the WCs in the winter/spring for the reasons given, but these reasons don't really apply when talking about the OGs at which the top roadies are already present. If the talent racing on the track is so poor then racing the IP would represent a better bet at a gold medal for a prologue specialist roadie than the road race or TT, surely?

Cav raced on the track in Beijing after a serious Giro and Tour campaign, so the logistical side of things is surely manageable. Maybe the technical aspects of riding a track bike are too much to overcome in what would be a short preparation period.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Not an issue when discussing history, but for Rio and going forward the qualification rules have changed significantly.

You pretty much need a track focus for ~18 months before the Olympic games to get enough qualification points.

 

[The Hitch]

And this is a strawman: I employed no logic, made no case for track success equalling road success, just that Wiggins has been a successful cyclist since an early age, rather than a nobody that suddenly came good at 29.

So if Michael Phelps won the Tour de France next year, arguments that he never showed the talent to do so would be ilegitimate?

 

[Benotti69]

Winning an Olympic gold medal would be the only reason to race the IP at the Olympics.

I'm not talking about racing the WCs in the winter/spring for the reasons given, but these reasons don't really apply when talking about the OGs at which the top roadies are already present. If the talent racing on the track is so poor then racing the IP would represent a better bet at a gold medal for a prologue specialist roadie than the road race or TT, surely?

Cav raced on the track in Beijing after a serious Giro and Tour campaign, so the logistical side of things is surely manageable. Maybe the technical aspects of riding a track bike are too much to overcome in what would be a short preparation period.

Cav was trying to ride the TeamGB London olympic wave, nothing more. Riding around a track is not comparable to the peloton.

Why do Canc, Tony Martin and others not hanker after IP golds?

 

[oldcrank]

Cancellara did say he was going to do the pursuit
in 2008. But the 'logistics' made it impossible.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Cav was trying to ride the TeamGB London olympic wave, nothing more.

Spouting your usual garbage... He wants an Olympic medal and has spoken about it in interviews before. He has talked about going to Rio as well.

Why do Canc, Tony Martin and others not hanker after IP golds?

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/no-olympic-pursuit-bid-for-cancellara-87474

 

[SeriousSam]

In 2009, aged 29, 10 years after those with 'natural' GT ability show it.

Yeah. I just didn't want to miss a chance to remind everyone that he beat Lance Armstrong in that famed climb of doping super stars which is kinda sorta suspicious to everyone but Wiggo's most ardent supporters.

 

[Benotti69]

Spouting your usual garbage... He wants an Olympic medal and has spoken about it in interviews before. He has talked about going to Rio as well.

Of course he does and a knghthood too no doubt.

Still defending the usual garbage of dopers.

 

[JimmyFingers]

This is silly, trying to belittle the track into some no-mark competition in which the 'proper' cyclists have no interest in because all they get is a gold medal. That may be the clinic's opinion of track but it's hardly a hard fact it, it's just meh opinion.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Still defending the usual garbage of dopers.

Funny you of all people should say that. You always moan on about dopers this and dopers that but when push comes to shove you are spineless on the issue.

Pro peloton - Drug cheating 90%+, check
Pro peloton - Dope dealing 25%+, check

How do you think riders get their dope? Other riders and doctors.

Continuing slagging Joe Papp for what lots of other athletes have done in their athletic career is OTT.

So someone has to be a convicted doper and drug dealer before you jump to their defence.

This is why I can never take you seriously.

As someone put it

You make me laugh.
You endlessly berate the sport for its drug cheats, but when you actually come into contact with one, you ***** foot around like teenager with a crush.

Oh, and I notice you did not address either of the points.

 

[Benotti69]

Funny you of all people should say that. You always moan on about dopers this and dopers that but when push comes to shove you are spineless on the issue.


So someone has to be a convicted doper and drug dealer before you jump to their defence.

This is why I can never take you seriously.

Anyone can dig up old emails and spin them. Well done, did you figure that one on your own. chapeau.

Keep taking Sky seriously. That shows huge levels of intelligence.

As for the last quote, want to give the author or just more sky style spin. FAIL.

 

[Afrank]

You two want to drop the insulting each other and the rude comments? Thanks.

Just address each others points directly and intelligently and leave the insults, rude comments, etc. out.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Anyone can dig up old emails and spin them.

What exactly have I spun? I posted your complete post and a link to it.
How is it out of context or otherwise? How have a misinterpreted it?

As for the last quote, want to give the author or just more sky style spin. FAIL.

How is that a fail? Again, all you need to do is go to the link for your quoted post and it is the very next post. I saw no need to source them as it was more important to just explain that I agreed with that opinion.

 

[MBotero]

Oh,these Wiggins defenders,i like Wiggins too but now way he's clean.I remember that 2009 TDF,where the race commentators in my country, where so surprised to see Wiggins climbing with the top gt guys.Every mountain stage they were expecting the guy to get dropped,yet Wiggo was always there.

 

[Benotti69]

This is silly, trying to belittle the track into some no-mark competition in which the 'proper' cyclists have no interest in because all they get is a gold medal. That may be the clinic's opinion of track but it's hardly a hard fact it, it's just meh opinion.

No Jimmy, it is that road cyclists dont value a gold medal on track over their job of riding on the road. If they did their would be loads of guys going for track golds as well as road racing. Their isn't.

 

[JimmyFingers]

No Jimmy, it is that road cyclists dont value a gold medal on track over their job of riding on the road. If they did their would be loads of guys going for track golds as well as road racing. Their isn't.

I can think of a fair few

 

[42x16ss]

I can think of a fair few

Who? There's Keisse in the Madison, Wigans in the IP and Thomas in the TP and...

Hepburn? Nope, full time road
Meyer? Not any more
Durbridge? Only road now
Phinney? Sorry
Bobridge? Forget it
Kennaugh? He's a climbing dom now
Sargent? Nuh
Mouris? Hasn't touched his track bike in years
Lancaster? Him too
Cav? Sounds 50-50 at best, LeFevere doesn't want him on the track
Viviani? Looks unlikely
Howard? Doesn't look like he's going back to track either...

Want me to keep going?

PS: since track is apparently such a good indication of CLIMBING talent, I suppose we'll be seeing these guys at the pointy end of things towards the end of July?

 

[mortand]

PS: since track is apparently such a good indication of CLIMBING talent, I suppose we'll be seeing these guys at the pointy end of things towards the end of July?

Naah, you'll probably have to wait for July 2017, when Alex Rasmussen returns to the road to thrash the GC riders, after beating the cr.. out of the track specialists in the 2016 Olympics.

It's a sure thing!