Wigans goes there. Cadence!

[42x16ss]

Why would you test a rider's VO2 max? What would you learn from it?

To see if it's a limiting factor for starters

 

[42x16ss]

hahaha.

"you know, we recruit the best scientists, ehh...we recruit ehh....the best wind-tunnel experts, eh...."
what about recruiting the best doctors?

HAHA! The best wind tunnel experts.... Who've never gotten to put the teams star rider (Froome) into the wind tunnel

You couldn't script this - it's genius!!

 

[Benotti69]

Why would you test a rider's VO2 max? What would you learn from it?

Why do all the teams test for it? It is a standard test.

For a team that allegedly leaves no stone unturned and pays massive attention to detail one would think this would be tested as part of implementation of 'marginal gains'........

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Didn't someone post a video of the BC guys doing VO2max tests on their riders?

Curious that in the majority of physiology studies, there are prerequisites that cite a minimum requirement for VO2 max. They are real scientists, too, not so easily dismissed as psuedo scientists.

But then Parker's question is disingenuous / rhetorical, so why am I even responding further.

el ho el

Got me.

 

[daveyt]

HAHA! The best wind tunnel experts.... Who've never gotten to put the teams star rider (Froome) into the wind tunnel

You couldn't script this - it's genius!!

He was put in the wind tunnel when he became the star rider at the start of 2013. In 2012 Wiggins was the star. Wind tunnel time is very expensive. How do you not understand this?

 

[the sceptic]

He was put in the wind tunnel when he became the star rider at the start of 2013. In 2012 Wiggins was the star. Wind tunnel time is very expensive. How do you not understand this?

What is the point of having the "leading wind tunnel experts" if you can only afford to send one rider in the tunnel? And I thought sky had a big budget?

troll better please.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Ah I see. So we'll wait until a rider doesn't need wind tunnel time because he's already beating everyone but his own team mate. Then we'll put him in the wind tunnel.

You know.

When he no longer needs it.

Some marginal gain right there eh?

 

[Benotti69]

He was put in the wind tunnel when he became the star rider at the start of 2013. In 2012 Wiggins was the star. Wind tunnel time is very expensive. How do you not understand this?

How much is a wind tunnel test?

Jaguar has their own wind tunnel since 2006, do sky use that?

 

[veganrob]

He was put in the wind tunnel when he became the star rider at the start of 2013. In 2012 Wiggins was the star. Wind tunnel time is very expensive. How do you not understand this?

You're kidding, right?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

In 2012, Sky spent 221,000 GBP on "Sports science and medical". 216k in 2011 and 197k in 2010.

 

[The Hitch]

So sky won because they had the biggest budget, to spend on all these best riders but they couldn't afford to train them

And if froome wasn't even being trained properly how did he come 2nd in the tdf and 3rd in Olympics

 

[daveyt]

What is the point of having the "leading wind tunnel experts" if you can only afford to send one rider in the tunnel? And I thought sky had a big budget?

troll better please.

No budget is bottomless and the idea is to spend it where you move towards your goal, there was no benefit to sky in putting Froome in a wind tunnel before 2013. My point is completely logical, explain how this is trolling? Constantly accusing anyone who disagrees with you, no matter how calm and rational they are, of being a troll is surely closer to trolling than any comment I made?

 

[Netserk]

No budget is bottomless and the idea is to spend it where you move towards your goal, there was no benefit to sky in putting Froome in a wind tunnel before 2013. My point is completely logical, explain how this is trolling? Constantly accusing anyone who disagrees with you, no matter how calm and rational they are, of being a troll is surely closer to trolling than any comment I made?

Why? Why not in the off season 11/12?

Maybe he could've got 2nd in the OG ITT, who knows. To claim that that wouldn't be any benefit to Sky puzzles me.

 

[Granville57]

No budget is bottomless and the idea is to spend it where you move towards your goal, there was no benefit to sky in putting Froome in a wind tunnel before 2013.

TEST WHERE CHAMPIONS TEST

The San Diego Wind Tunnel has developed a unique testing capability for cyclists.

To date, the facility has conducted testing on over 500 cyclists and for numerous cycling equipment manufacturers.

Weekend warriors welcome, but clearly well beyond the means of Team Sky.

http://www.sandiegowindtunnel.com/Cycling.html

http://www.sandiegowindtunnel.com/uploads/Cycling_Tri-Fold_2014.pdf

 

[The Hitch]

Davety's post is so devoid of logic it is clear to anyone with eyes it is trolling.

The same old Joachim/ martinvickers of picking on absolutely anything sceptic/ sniper/ hog etc say just to extend the argument.

That a team with a budget of x however million Sky boast about having, that boasts about having significantly better training and "science" than any other team in the sport, would not pay for their 2012 Vuelta gt leader and 2012 Tour backup option to enter a windtunnel, because "Wind tunnel time is very expensive" is such a fail of an argument.

It totally contradicts everything Sky, their fans, and their media cheerleaders have been chirping about for the last 3 years about Sky's super duper never seen before training.

A swimming coach who invented the worlds greatest training techniques that unlocked Froome's talent, but he wouldn't enter a windtunnel, because "Wind tunnel time is very expensive"

 

[sniper]

Davety's post is so devoid of logic it is clear to anyone with eyes it is trolling.

The same old Joachim/ martinvickers of picking on absolutely anything sceptic/ sniper/ hog etc say just to extend the argument.

That a team with a budget of x however million Sky boast about having, that boasts about having significantly better training and "science" than any other team in the sport, would not pay for their 2012 Vuelta gt leader and 2012 Tour backup option to enter a windtunnel, because "Wind tunnel time is very expensive" is such a fail of an argument.

It totally contradicts everything Sky, their fans, and their media cheerleaders have been chirping about for the last 3 years about Sky's super duper never seen before training.

A swimming coach who invented the worlds greatest training techniques that unlocked Froome's talent, but he wouldn't enter a windtunnel, because "Wind tunnel time is very expensive"

you're not doing justice to daveyt here.
his argument is not just that it was too expensive.
he also claims "there was no benefit to sky in putting Froome in a wind tunnel before 2013"!
It's like a double negative. Put two bogus arguments together, surely that makes for one compelling argument..

 

[Granville57]

That a team with a budget of x however million Sky boast about having, that boasts about having significantly better training and "science" than any other team in the sport, would not pay for their 2012 Vuelta gt leader and 2012 Tour backup option to enter a windtunnel, because "Wind tunnel time is very expensive" is such a fail of an argument.

Yes, well wind tunnel testing isn't actually something the average Joe can just do on the weekends, Hitch.




You see, you have book time during the week only.

Q. How do I book a wind tunnel session?
If you would like to go on our mailing list to be informed of availability for wind tunnel sessions, submit your enquiry here.

Q. Do you offer wind tunnel tests at the weekend?
I am afraid that we do not run sessions at the weekend.

Q. How much does a wind tunnel session cost?
For a first test a minimum 2 hour booking is required, and for this session we charge £1,050. Most people find that for a first visit, two hours is enough to look at various changes in position and to try some different bars and helmets.

Q. Where is the wind tunnel
The wind tunnel that we use is located at the Mercedes-AMG Petronas GP facility in Brackley, Northamptonshire.

http://www.drag2zero.co.uk

 

[The Hitch]

£1000

Good lord, how could Murdoch possibly afford that for a rider on his TDF team

I mean I know Sky go the extra mile with all the pillows and hiring people who have no actual experience with cycling to be their trainers, but this would be too far even for them.

 

[red_flanders]

Why would you test a rider's VO2 max? What would you learn from it?

Come on. Teams have been running tests to determine the potential of riders since at least the 70's. But the most thorough, most scientific team ever doesn't run a V02 max test.

Are they running a different test because they have others ways of establishing their own riders' potential and they don't include the V02 max test? I haven't heard them offer anything like that or specifics on what they do.

Or are we to assume they aren't interested in finding the potential of their riders, unlike any other team in the peloton. I wouldn't think so. What other possibility is there? Oh yeah, they're lying. Because they know Froome's V02 can't be corroborated with his physical performance.

 

[coinneach]

So sky won because they had the biggest budget, to spend on all these best riders but they couldn't afford to train them

And if froome wasn't even being trained properly how did he come 2nd in the tdf and 3rd in Olympics

In the Climb, Froome drops a number of hints about how he wasn't happy that wiggins got preferential treatment: in the Olympics TT, he was even jealous of Wiggins bike. He understood that Sky had written a script with Wiggins the hero. So the wind tunnel treatment (as opposed to the hairdryer treatment) would just be consistent with this.
Strikes me as having an element of truth in it

 

[Parker]

Come on. Teams have been running tests to determine the potential of riders since at least the 70's. But the most thorough, most scientific team ever doesn't run a V02 max test.

Are they running a different test because they have others ways of establishing their own riders' potential and they don't include the V02 max test? I haven't heard them offer anything like that or specifics on what they do.

But that's all it is. A rough indicator of potential to be good at endurance sports. If you want to find out who has aptitude for endurance sports from a blind selection of general population than VO2 will do that - but it won't tell you whether they will be a champion. Once you're over 80 then other factors are more important - things like lactate uptake.

A VO2 max test can tell you if someone has the potential to become a pro cyclist, but little more. But if they're already a pro cyclist that's a moot point, so why do they test? What will you learn? A better test is just get them to ride a bike.

People seem to think that VO2 is be all and end all of sports science. Maybe in 80s when sports scientists had nothing else to go on it might have been, but it's had its day as a measure for the elite.

 

[red_flanders]

But that's all it is. A rough indicator of potential to be good at endurance sports. If you want to find out who has aptitude for endurance sports from a blind selection of general population than VO2 will do that - but it won't tell you whether they will be a champion. Once you're over 80 then other factors are more important - things like lactate uptake.

A VO2 max test can tell you if someone has the potential to become a pro cyclist, but little more. But if they're already a pro cyclist that's a moot point, so why do they test? What will you learn? A better test is just get them to ride a bike.

People seem to think that VO2 is be all and end all of sports science. Maybe in 80s when sports scientists had nothing else to go on it might have been, but it's had its day as a measure for the elite.

Not sure if any of that is true or even if it were what the point would be. Teams run V02 max tests on riders all the time as part of determining their potential as riders. Not sure what evidence you have that it doesn't matter above a certain number. You're making a claim but it's unsupported by anything you're saying or I've read. Having an 80 or a 90 would matter...a lot. Besides, how would they know if a rider had an 80 and above anyway. Not exactly common even in the pro ranks.

I never said it was the be all end all.

I simply said teams do it regularly as a part of figuring out what a rider's potential is. If Sky aren't using it, why not? What are they doing to figure out their riders' potential? Surely such an advanced team with such a scientific approach isn't overlooking various performance tests on their riders? If they don't use the test (not established in any way), what are they using? Or is that a state secret because of their amazing methodology?

The simple answer here is that you'll never hear what his V02 max is because it would be completely incompatible with his performance, no matter what his other tangibles are.

As has been pointed out on this forum, he would have to be at the human max for all those other measurables to put out the performance he does with an 84 V02 max. The likelihood of that is as near nil as can be, given he rode for years showing no such potential. He would have to be a one in a million pro rider, and simply stated, he's not.

 

[Granville57]

In the Climb, Froome drops a number of hints about how he wasn't happy that wiggins got preferential treatment: in the Olympics TT, he was even jealous of Wiggins bike. He understood that Sky had written a script with Wiggins the hero. So the wind tunnel treatment (as opposed to the hairdryer treatment) would just be consistent with this.
Strikes me as having an element of truth in it

So if Wiggo were getting the royal treatment, I have to wonder why any given rider, especially if they feel they're being unfairly neglected, wouldn't just go to a wind tunnel themselves, on their own wallet (providing that they could afford it, and if they felt that doing so would be beneficial).

Since Dawg ignored the training advice of Kerrison anyway, why not pursue something on his own that could supposedly improve one's results?

Again, this isn't to put such blame on only Froome. I remember when Floyd complained to Bruyneel about not having a TT bike to train on. I thought, What's stopping him from just buying his own damn bike and doing what he wants on his own time?

I realize these guys are above all that, of course.

 

[coinneach]

So if Wiggo were getting the royal treatment, I have to wonder why any given rider, especially if they feel they're being unfairly neglected, wouldn't just go to a wind tunnel themselves, on their own wallet (providing that they could afford it, and if they felt that doing so would be beneficial).

Since Dawg ignored the training advice of Kerrison anyway, why not pursue something on his own that could supposedly improve one's results?

Again, this isn't to put such blame on only Froome. I remember when Floyd complained to Bruyneel about not having a TT bike to train on. I thought, What's stopping him from just buying his own damn bike and doing what he wants on his own time?

I realize these guys are above all that, of course.

Well, I'm not sure they always have the time, and the best equipment isn't available for the whole team.....that also irritated Hamilton, IIRC.

So what is an aspiring pro cyclist supposed to do, if his team won't back him fully?
Oh yes, we are in the clinic, and in this context, it does make a certain amount of sense

 

[Benotti69]

But that's all it is. A rough indicator of potential to be good at endurance sports. If you want to find out who has aptitude for endurance sports from a blind selection of general population than VO2 will do that - but it won't tell you whether they will be a champion. Once you're over 80 then other factors are more important - things like lactate uptake.

A VO2 max test can tell you if someone has the potential to become a pro cyclist, but little more. But if they're already a pro cyclist that's a moot point, so why do they test? What will you learn? A better test is just get them to ride a bike.

People seem to think that VO2 is be all and end all of sports science. Maybe in 80s when sports scientists had nothing else to go on it might have been, but it's had its day as a measure for the elite.

The mapei sport centre* test riders vo2max every year.

The reason Sky wont release Froome's Vo2max is because it is not high. If it was high you would be guaranteed it was released, just like those other gems of pineapple juice in the bidons, warm up, warm downs, washing hands, pillows, no nutella..etc etc

* http://www.mapeisport.it/SiAffidano.asp